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Thrawn
05-30-2002, 02:31 AM
Does anyone else find page 103 of issue 60, Aug 2002, SW Insider disturbing?

First up the title of the article is "AOTC Action Figure Update - Flying off the shelves at lightspeed."

Since this article was written a couple months before the toys were released I find it interesting that Hasbro (remember Hasbro owns the company that makes the Insider) can now predict the future. Sounds like they have delusions of grandeur. No figures are flying anywhere except from the pegs to the floor. In fact it seems like more figures are around then E1. TRU has so much stuff they just fill up the pegs and then giant bins of figures. This stuff isn't going anywhere even AFTER the movie opened. In one store I counted no less than 100 Slave-Is on the shelves. Retailers are going to take a beating once again making it quite hard to be able to snag the newest figures.

The second sentence of the article reads "...you might have to hang out by the stock room door every Tuesday morning for the rest of the summer to have a chance of snagging that one-per-case figure before anyone else does."

Thank you Hasbro for proving what I have said all along. They have no idea what they are doing. Not only do they admit short packing figures, they have no problem suggesting you waste months of your time hanging out at stores waiting for new shipments like you have nothing better to do with your life. How about saying "All figures will ship evenly and often so everyone can get them without any hassle." I guess that would require them to care about what they are doing?

CaptainSolo1138
05-30-2002, 03:44 AM
I read the same article and thought the same thing. I think Insider has gone downhill ever since it changed hands anyway. This nearly confirms it. I only buy it any more for the Jawa Trader, and that's getting pretty lame as well. How long have they been trying to pimp that Princess Leia cookie jar?!?!?

Beast
05-30-2002, 03:54 AM
The article is no doubt based on projections with test marketing the figures, not to mention seeing them sell for insane money on ebay before they came out. Also, there is no "one per case" figures, everything has been pretty evenly packed in the cases. So there are some inaccuraces in the article. And if you read some of the store reports here, especially the thread about figures flying off the shelves, they are doing that in some areas. So, I wouldn't be that hard on the article. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

bigbarada
05-30-2002, 04:20 AM
I would say, if anything, that Hasbro is trying to artificially inflate demand; but just about every product manufacturer will say whatever is considered necessary to sell their product. That's basically all the Insider has become anyway, a product catalog.

It's prequel update is a joke since most of the pictures shown have been on the net for months and those that are exclusive are only exclusive for the five minutes it takes for someone to scan them into their computer and put them on the internet. Their letters editors try vainly to be funny and Steve Sansweet wastes space telling people that all their collectibles really aren't worth anything. Enough about my beefs with the Insider.

I think ever since Rick McCallum made that "deranged fan" comment, people think it is okay to bash Star Wars fans to be cool. I guess they assume we enjoy it.:rolleyes:

sith pedagog
05-30-2002, 05:39 AM
I'm glad someone has my same concern as far as sales go. My local Wal-Marts are doing ok as far as how quickly the figures are moving. However, Toys R Us, like Thrawn said has an entire section devoted to it and then giant bins. Some of the most disturbing things I saw there were, onbe entire bin dedicated to those four original deluxe figures, that was in addition to the tenor so pegs of them on the wall. Also, I'm not sure why someone did this - maybe as a little joke- but they had two side strips that were FILLED with Zam. I mean every peg 2 and three deep. Can you say clearance? K-Mart and Target are in similar states. The more I think about it, the more it concerns me. I wonder how long the run will continue after E3 if the sales continue to dissapoint.

JediTricks
05-30-2002, 05:43 AM
Originally posted by CaptainSolo1138
I read the same article and thought the same thing. I think Insider has gone downhill ever since it changed hands anyway. This nearly confirms it. I only buy it any more for the Jawa Trader, and that's getting pretty lame as well. How long have they been trying to pimp that Princess Leia cookie jar?!?!? AHAHAHAHAHA!!! The FC has been hocking that Leia cookie jar possibly for the entire time I've been a fan club member!!! :D:crazed:

I too think the Insider's content has slid downhill since Hasbro bought it, and I never really thought that highly of it when it was run by the last guys either.


Originally posted by JarJarBinks
The article is no doubt based on projections with test marketing the figures, not to mention seeing them sell for insane money on ebay before they came out. Also, there is no "one per case" figures, everything has been pretty evenly packed in the cases.
1) Would this be the same test marketing that said that there should be as many Jar Jars as Darth Mauls in those first Ep 1 cases? Test marketing and early ebay sales mean exactly jack squat in reality, Ep 1 proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt when people were paying $100 for figures a week before the toys came out, yet 2 weeks later the stores could not get rid of these same exact figures. (And I'm not just talking about Jar Jar)

2) Packing 2 Dookus per case was close enough to "one per case", and the point isn't that Hasbro wrote an inaccuracy about the Saga line, it's that they KNOW it's a problem with the modern Star Wars line and they STILL don't do anything about it to HELP the collecting community.


Originally posted by bigbarada
I would say, if anything, that Hasbro is trying to artificially inflate demand; but just about every product manufacturer will say whatever is considered necessary to sell their product. That's basically all the Insider has become anyway, a product catalog.Funny you mention that BB, I used to jest to my friends that the Insider was just filler surrounding the Jawa Trader 5 years ago, and it's gotten SO much worse since then - as Solo1138 points out, even the Jawa Trader itself has gone to hell now!


It seems like Hasbro and the Insider are so 2-faced about collectors and basically have nothing but contempt for the problems we face - some of which THEY create. This article really seems like a slap in the face, and the Saga line's shipping problems are the kick in the teeth for both collectors and retailers. Do you think TRU or WM want to get stuck with 10,000 senator Jar Jars and Anakin OPDs and Kit Fistos? Do you think these stores want their Star Wars pegs so clogged with unselling product that they can't put newer figures out because there's literally no more space - especially when the new figures are surrounded in their cases by those same non-selling figures?!?

bigbarada
05-30-2002, 05:55 AM
I'm getting a little worried that if the Ep2 line performs like the Ep1 line, this doesn't bode well for an Ep3 line.:(

In any case, Hasbro is shooting themselves in the foot and can only blame themselves for the failure of these movie tie-in figures.

Remember when it was unthinkable that a Star Wars line of toys could possibly be a disappointing seller?

Darthpost
05-30-2002, 06:16 AM
Well remember when they flooded the market with all the remade darth maul figures so collectors would have all 3 types? They expect us to pay all this money for figures and then re-issue them so the price drops but we still have to pay at least 6-8 dollars a figure? thats getting a bit much for 4" of plastic. Although I did get the new luke (with removable hand) I had to show up at target at 9 am after a friend tole me they got a new shipment in. Collecting shouldnt be like this. I can still get episode 1 figures at KMART for .50!
It is not fair to only pack boxes with 2 (special) figures. It means 500 kit fistos and 1 freakin' yoda! I was a little aprehensive when the new figures came out because of the sheer quantities of then and knew something like this would happen. They should bring back Bantha Tracks the original newsletter.

OC47150
05-30-2002, 07:03 AM
As someone who works in the public relations/marketing field, it's difficult to write an article for any publication that's not going to be printed for several months. You have to guess what the demand and interest in the topic/subject is going to be.

Forhekset
05-30-2002, 08:20 AM
All I can say is, I'm getting tired of having to go to ridiculous lengths to get the figs I want. I showed up at Wal-Mart at 5am this morning (left for work about 2 1/2 hours earlier than usual) and a scalper had STILL beaten me to the new stuff. Oh wait, I take that back, I did find a single Qui-Gon Jinn. I took about 5 seconds to look at him, said "Yecch" and put him right back.

Really now, having to camp out stores and rush to the toy aisle, making toy runs in the wee hours of the morning. It's fun now and then when you go the extra mile and you're rewarded, but lately it's just pathetic, and it's absurd in the first place to have to do this just to get a $6 piece of plastic.

Ahh, I feel better after that little rant. Anyway, that article seems like typical marketing mumbo jumbo propaganda to me. And yeah it is annoying that they even state in the article that you may have to hang around a stock room to get a figure. On one hand, I can see where they were just trying to basically say "you snooze, you lose", no different than a concert promoter telling you to get your tickets NOW before they're sold out!! Marketing BS, once again. But still...there's something wrong if you have to stake out a store just to get a frigging figure, and that's pretty much the way it is. However, I don't think that article was really intended as a taunt towards collectors. Is it irritating? Yes. Is there something wrong with Hasbro's distribution? Probably. Was the article a conscious, directed insult? No.

Rogue II
05-30-2002, 08:27 AM
I was just in Walmart and TRU yesterday. They both have entire aisles dedicated to Star Wars. Target has half an aisle for Star Wars. The pegs are jam packed full of figures, the shelves are full of vehicles, and the "newest" figures I saw were 2 Dookus, Imperial Guard, and a Taun We. If that wasn't bad enough, the TRU also had an section in the back of the store that was full of POTJ FX-7 wave and preview figures. There were even about a dozen of Anakin's Episode 1 Starfighters and podracers.

It seems like there is more Star Wars figures on the shelves now than there was when TPM came out. I have decided that Hasbro must have expected this. There is no way they would make the same mistake twice. I wonder what the retailers will do about this in the future.

So when does the $1.97 clearance sale start on the Saga Figures? I was thinking about picking up a Kit Fisto and C-3PO.

General Warpig
05-30-2002, 08:31 AM
the SE release of the OT sold the POTF line and introduced Star Wars toys to a younger generation,TPM saw a massive rise in children being intersested(lets not forget,collecting aside.These are TOYS we are discussing).Films are very prominant launch-pads for new toy lines(another thing Lucas had a massive influence on).Hasbro has to push it now,has to scream ,shout and predict the fantastical sale of products.We all know there is only one film left to extrapilate characters that a majority of children will be interested in.Lets not forget when we were young we seemed to have a lot less choice on film/fantasy toy merchandise.Children now have so much choice,as much as we dont like it they are(on the whole) only interested in Star Wars for the 3 months sorrounding the films release!Except our own kids,who are so bombarded with the imagary they are gonna' grow up with it!
The questiom is 2-3 yrs after EP III(he's not the chosen one !he's a very naughty boy!).How much will we,the collectors be paying for new release's,if they hit the shelves at all!!
Hasbro knows the time of Mass-MASS sales have only 4-5 years left so they're making a fuss to increase they're youngster fan base,and worry collectors into panic-buying(of which i am guilty)
All in all a marketing ploy as blunt as a plastic Lightsaber

He's not the chosen one,He's a very naughty boy!!!!

Forhekset
05-30-2002, 08:32 AM
Originally posted by Rogue II
I was just in Walmart and TRU yesterday. They both have entire aisles dedicated to Star Wars. Target has half an aisle for Star Wars. The pegs are jam packed full of figures, the shelves are full of vehicles, and the "newest" figures I saw were 2 Dookus, Imperial Guard, and a Taun We. If that wasn't bad enough, the TRU also had an section in the back of the store that was full of POTJ FX-7 wave and preview figures. There were even about a dozen of Anakin's Episode 1 Starfighters and podracers.

It seems like there is more Star Wars figures on the shelves now than there was when TPM came out. I have decided that Hasbro must have expected this. There is no way they would make the same mistake twice. I wonder what the retailers will do about this in the future.

So when does the $1.97 clearance sale start on the Saga Figures? I was thinking about picking up a Kit Fisto and C-3PO.

Yeah, I could build a massive clone army of Zam Wesell, the way she's clogging the pegs over here. I wonder when all the stores in my area will finally sell all the Jango Fett gum dispensers and other crap nobody wants? :rolleyes:

They've gotta do a clearance on SW figs by the end of the year....almost every store I go into is flooded with the major pegwarmers.

icatch9
05-30-2002, 08:47 AM
Don't you think they know what they are doing? I mean this is a multi billion-dollar company. They have been around the block a few times. They know us better than we know ourselves. Here is a little theory that may just blow your mind.

Hasbro knows everyone wants a Dooku or who or whatever may be popular. So, they make some and package them a couple per case. That is so some people find them and buy them. Then, when the average collector (you me and everyone else here) finds out people are finding them we are getting our butts to every WM and TRU in a 30-mile radius. Once we are there chances are we won't find what we are looking for. Since we are collectors (hunters) we don't like coming home empty handed. So, we will more than likely buy something we wouldn’t have bought, but we do to save some face (pride). This rare figure works like lighter fluid on a fire. It gets everyone riled up and searching for star wars. See the more time we are in the store, the more money we might spend. If we all had every figure we would have no reason to go to the store, and thus wouldn't spend any money.

Think about it. Hasbro is not dumb; they are as deceitful as the Emperor.


Oh, yea this is a little known practice that most major toys lines do (i.e. Treasure Hunts, Reverse Uniforms, Chase figures). They all do it, and they all want our money.

Eternal Padawan
05-30-2002, 09:33 AM
Whatever. If I don't find Dooku or Yoda (Yoda. You are wiley and elusive, but you will be mine...) I don't think to myself, "Geez. I guess I'll buy another Padme figure..."

I just go home.

Vortex
05-30-2002, 10:26 AM
After the Ep 1 peg warmer incidents, and it's happing again to a worse degree now here in MN, I see another massive problem on the horizon with the stores and stock.

Some local stores completely phased out the SW about 5-6 months after the movie (toy advertisements) stopped showing. Local targets and wal-marts, the Mall of America FAO, made room on the pegs for other movie toys, bulked up on crap and some didn't even have one peg for star wars stuff.

Some local scalpers had to order from other scalpers in chicago, cal, ny, for their "new" stuff. Heck I had to go half with a friend to buy cases from Entertainment Earth just so I could get the new figs. To this day I still haven't see a bo-shek in town, a tc-14...I could continue to list, but you get the idea.

Hasbro is a big problem in this regard of getting figs out and packing cases, but at the same time its also the stores fault.
I used to work at a TRU in town and the big problem with all the peg warmers is the Home office's pre-orders. These guys order all the summer, fall, winter toys well in advance from Hasbro or their vendors and they don't know the case breakdowns or what
they are getting. They just have orders in and they what the get for pre-order. If the line moves they'll order a few more cases, if the line has stalled they won't. The local store can request more stock, but its still the computers and HQ that's place the orders, and most times the bean counters just order so many different asst. numbered cases after looking at some profit equasion and call it a day...and then we the collectors get screwed by both hasbro and the toy store cause we have to put up the same old crap and hope we get lucky and manage to get one of the 2 new figs in the case...the old stuff sits and doesn't move so the orders stop being placed by the stores.

That's what happened here locally. The line stopped moving, Darth Mauls, Jar-Jars, and little ani grease gun boy collected dust, and after a while they started to disapear, the rows of sw toys went down to 3 x 4 rows and then they just phased out and disapeared totally. I'm already seeing it with a local TRU. They had a front display, bins, and an area in the boys section all dedicated to the new stuff, and now, the boys section is fading fast, and a bin or two has disapeared. They're squeezing it out for other summer toys.

I'm hoping that this disapearing act doesn't happen with Ep II, but its starting and I've got a sneaky hunch 2003 toys are gonna be hard to come by, once the movie stops playing and the push for the new DVD is over. Harry Pot-head is coming out in Dec, along with L.O.T.R. This summer is Men in Black II, and some other block busters...meaning new toy lines and poor old star wars will be probably be back down to 3 x 4 rows of pegs.

And yes, the Insider is turing into dribble these days.

OC47150
05-30-2002, 10:45 AM
I attempted to find the hard to find figures on the first day in April without much success. Apparently, these hard to find figures aren't hard to find after all.

Mandalorian Candidat
05-30-2002, 10:46 AM
I just had to laugh incredulously at that article. Thanks for posting it Thrawn. To me it seems that Hasbro considers us to be the fire hydrant to their water-bloated mongrel. Wait by the stockroom door every Tuesday morning my big white A!

I overheard the toy manager at my local WM yesterday complaining about the tons of pegwarmers the warehouse sent him. Plus he said the manager was upset that he couldn't move them to empty out the back warehouse. To me that says "You don't get dessert if you don't eat your veggies."

I don't know about the rest of you, but I feel damn lucky to have found the Orn wave and a single JFFB. I am soooo tempted to quit the whole figure collecting thing and just switch over to collecting the CCG. It seems like it's more fair to all and a lot cheaper too.

DarthMaulSithLord
05-30-2002, 11:01 AM
'We're doomed"
- C-3PO

:(

Vortex
05-30-2002, 11:18 AM
Just a thought here? After this whole mess with the insider claims, the toy stores lack of new product, hasbro shorting cases...Does anyone else think the toys, movies, meaning is starting to be just for our generation? The gen X'ers?

I mean we eat up the toys, play with the toys as grown adults and I'm sure there's some dad's and mom's out there that collect and play with them, but if you take a few seconds out, look around the star wars isle, even here in the forum...is it just us 30-20 something that are the only ones hot about this movie and toys?

I was just thinking about a co-workers kid who's 12 and he went to the special editions, Ep. I and Ep. II, and likes the movies alot, but he's not into the action figures. He grew up with the pokemon cards, magic cards, power rangers, and he's not at all interested in the toys, he's into the net, computer games, and all sort of card games. I see some little kids in the isles, who get one from mom and dad, but its not a tantrum fight like I had when I wanted a star wars fig. The kids these days are like cool, not a biggie...I see more 20 year olds and some college kids collecting and buying, but not a lot of little kids screaming for Padme or Ani.

Has Nintendo, Netscape, and Cartoon Network jaded these kids, on story lines, special effects, here today gone tomorrow mentality? Will we as gen X'ers be the only ones that still admire or see the insights that star wars has to offer, and will we be the ones holding the bag with the toys when the last figure is off the shelf in about 5 years?

I do know star wars will be a cult movie like Rocky Horror, Clock Work Orange with all college kids, but is the toy line dying fast since kids have all sort of new product bombardment and their attention span is about as long as an eye blink?

pthfnder89
05-30-2002, 11:26 AM
Thanks you tjovonovich for pointing out something that I think a lot of people don't realize. Hasbro may screw up things with their marketing strategies, but also a lot of the things they get blamed for by people on this board don't have anything to do with them at all.

All the major retail stores have their own system for ordering and dispensing product, and let me tell you; Hasbro has at least SOME feel for helping us collectors, after all, we are a large part of their customer base.

But stores like WalMart and Target and sometimes TRU also; they aren't concerned at ALL about us. And there is no reason for them to be. Wal-Marts toy section probably accounts for about 2% of their sales or possibley less. They aren't going to change the way they do buisness in order to be extra accomadating to that tiny percentage. They are only concerned about how they buy and sell in GENERAL. That means their buisness practices are centered around all of their products.

Hasbros has screwed up plenty but everyone here tends to automatically point their fingers at them whenever they see something they don't like, whether it's their fault or not.

Old Fossil
05-30-2002, 11:32 AM
Tjovonovich has a good point. It is no fluke that the best-selling figures, the ones most of us wait on with baited breath, are the new releases of Classic -- Original Trilogy -- figures and vehicles; toys based on the movies we watched when we (the so-called Gen-Xers) were kids, before computer games and the Internet really took hold on young people's imaginations. Those few collectors I know personally, and the one or two young'uns who are into Star Wars figures, treasure their Han's and Leia's and Luke's and Vader's and all the accompanying Rebel and Imperial paraphernalia, much more so than they do Battle Droids and Gungans and Clone Troopers.

Something in the newer movies is lacking, no matter how much of an improvement EpII is over EpI; and there is moreover much more competition from other films for kids' attentions (as stated in the above post).

Who among you wouldn't want a Stormtrooper figure over a Battle Droid any day? (There are some, sure, but I predict them a minority.)

Vortex
05-30-2002, 11:34 AM
Thanks for the kudos, and yea, people do jump on hasbro, but a lot of people forget they are a kids toy company, and its all about profit, what's gonna be the not new thing in kids toys and making as much cash as they can in a short time. The stores are like that too. If star wars or some small line isn't cutting the profit margin it just goes away.

Rogue II
05-30-2002, 11:34 AM
I don't think the Star Wars Toy line would be what it is today without us Gen-X'ers. I know my newphews really don't have much interest in them. They enjoy their pokeman, batman, spiderman, and those little mini bmx bikes and motorcycles. If the Star Wars line ended today, they wouldn't care. I think Hasbro recognizes adult collector to an extent. That is why there are Fans choice polls and why they produce characters like Wuher, Aunt Beru, and Palpatine-things with little play vaule that the adult fans demand.

Somewhere in their managment beyond the designers, things get fouled up. I think its matter of all of Hasbro's departments needing to all get on the same page and come up with a better game plan.

Forhekset
05-30-2002, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by Eternal Padawan
Whatever. If I don't find Dooku or Yoda (Yoda. You are wiley and elusive, but you will be mine...) I don't think to myself, "Geez. I guess I'll buy another Padme figure..."

I just go home.

Same here. Maybe that tactic works with the vast majority of consumers (read: sheep) I guess, but I walk in, scan the pegs for only the fig I'm looking for, and if I don't find it, walk right out of the store. Takes all of 5 minutes, tops.

BTW I have 2 extra Yodas for trade Eternal Padawan, check out my thread in the Saga trade forum :)

Forhekset
05-30-2002, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by Twodot Tatooine
It is no fluke that the best-selling figures, the ones most of us wait on with baited breath, are the new releases of Classic -- Original Trilogy -- figures and vehicles; toys based on the movies we watched when we (the so-called Gen-Xers) were kids, before computer games and the Internet really took hold on young people's imaginations.

Ain't that the truth. The Luke/Vader half of the Bespin wave is THE hardest thing to find in my area so far out of the entire Saga line.

Taichi
05-30-2002, 02:08 PM
Oh.....I've not been a subscriber to Insider in about three years...

my first issue (Had Mark Hamill on the cover) had that cookie jar in it......

Lord Tenebrous
05-30-2002, 02:41 PM
What's bad this time around is the number of assortments that are virtually the same.


I would have rather Hasbro constricted the Pegwarming Eight and Six to one assortment, then given all the others a nice even distribution. This concept of sending pegwarmers with new figures is irritating. At least POTJ was an even 3X or 4X of new figures. That's part of the reason I loved the line so much...you didn't overlap into "snore territory".

Mandalorian Candidat
05-30-2002, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by tjovonovich
Thanks for the kudos, and yea, people do jump on hasbro, but a lot of people forget they are a kids toy company, and its all about profit, what's gonna be the not new thing in kids toys and making as much cash as they can in a short time. The stores are like that too. If star wars or some small line isn't cutting the profit margin it just goes away.

It may be a "kids' line" but the adults are the ones buying this stuff and in droves. Who here could buy all 12 of the original SW figures way back when? I had no $ so I relied on begging and annoying the hell out of my parents to get my SW fix. Now we drop tons of greenbacks buying all the figures that come out and then maybe even multiples for ourselves and/or our own kids.

I refuse to believe that this line is kid driven. How can Hasbro believe otherwise? Their reps are in the stores seeing who buys the stuff: 20 and 30 somethings with jobs (OK, most of us have jobs :) ). If they can't make money off of this line, then its their fault due to poor distribution, goofy case assortments, and shipping too many of the same case to retailers who don't buy by the figure but by the collection. I put any blame squarely in their hands. It all starts at the top and then rolls down the hill past the retailers and the scalpers directly to us.

icatch9
05-30-2002, 03:29 PM
So, maybe you don't buy another Padme or whatever. The point is your going day after day after day. Looking for the same thing. Business is a numbers game. It is very simple the more time spent in the stores, the more chance you have of spending some money. You can't very easily spend money on Hasbro stuff if you’re sitting at home. Now can you (the internet doesn't count)? They aren't just after you and me (the serious collector) they are after the rest too. They are after the people who have $10.00 burning a whole in their pocket. Kids and half fans want a Dooku too. So when they don't find him, they'll spend that $10 on something else related to Star Wars. MOST people don’t have everything already like we do.

What the people on this site don't seem to realize is that we are the minority in the Star Wars toy universe. I don't know how many people are actually on this site, but we are greatly out numbered by not so serious people. That includes kids, teenagers, and ever other "Gen Xers" who buy the stuff. They may not be completests or army builders like you or me, but they buy up a large amount of toys. Hasbro wants them more than they want us. They keep us just happy enough, because they know we'll buy it anyway. The rest is cost efficient product made for the everyday Joe.

When we realize that these toys are made to make money, and we (the collectors) contribute very little to Hasbro’s profit. Then we may see what they do more clearly.

sith pedagog
05-30-2002, 04:01 PM
If I don't find my figure I just go home. But I can see icatch9's point about numbers. If a kid is looking for Dooku and keeps bugging mom and dad to take him to the store, he may get 4 or 5 figures in the meantime before the elusive main character shows up.

There is a precedent for even distribution of characters. Originally the Simpsons figures were produced in strange quantities. If you guys don't know or remember Lisa, Grandpa and later Smithers and Burns were short packed and hard to find. Later playmates announced that they would switch to an even distribution. All of a sudden, few or no rare figures. Now on ebay there are some but nothing really going for crazy prices. 6 or 7 bucks. They have fewer peg warmers, new collections are out one right after another, collectors can easily find figures and they must be doing ok because they just released that new line of celebrity simpsons. Now besides some Barts etc. I believe that the Simpsons sales are largely based on collectors. To me this proves that collectors only can keep an action figure line in business. Star Wars is even more powerful than the Simpsons. I think that (in agreement with others on this post) that Hasbro has greatly exagerated the line's sales potential. I also agree that most of "us" are 20-30. I don't see many kids in the aisles and being a person that works with children everyday, I can tell you they love the movies but just don't buy the figures.

The movies in fact, hurt the collector more than help. They flood the market because of high anticipation. Star Wars should almost never be more than 4 or 5 rows of pegs in a store. There just isn't the demand! But they can still make money, many other lines can! Talk about marketing ideas. If the figures' demand becomes such that they are selling out and stores have to reorder, what is lost? Initial sales yes, but the publicity could create a frenzy of people looking for the figures. Remember pokemon cards?

By the way, I don't think that toys represents less than 2% of sales. I worked for WalMart and you have to remember Christmas time. 2% is a very low estimate, and it is a very important department.

sith pedagog
05-30-2002, 04:13 PM
The point I was trying to make about Hasbro overdoing the SW line is that they should lower their expectations. Star Wars is a money maker, but because of the high expectations, they are overproducing and thus hurting themselves.

Let me ask a questions of you guys. Just in theory. Would you be willing to pay .. say $1 more for each figure, if you KNEW (just a theoretical situation) that you would be able to walk into just about any store in a reasonable time frame and pick up the figures you need? Why would I ask that, because once again in theory, if Hasbro has a certain goal for profit, increasing the price and decreasing the production numbers would help to get the products out of the store faster, IF people are willing to pay. Do you think we are seeing higher numbers because of lower prices? Maybe?? Like I said, this is juts an idea. If you guys know more, tell me.

pthfnder89
05-30-2002, 04:45 PM
You make some very good points sith pedagog, but I have to point out a couple things.


Originally posted by sith pedagog
Now besides some Barts etc. I believe that the Simpsons sales are largely based on collectors. To me this proves that collectors only can keep an action figure line in business. Star Wars is even more powerful than the Simpsons. I think that (in agreement with others on this post) that Hasbro has greatly exagerated the line's sales potential. I also agree that most of "us" are 20-30. I don't see many kids in the aisles and being a person that works with children everyday, I can tell you they love the movies but just don't buy the figures.

It's true, the Simpsons line is sold almost entirely to collectors. Children have little use for toys that don't move, and only talk when connected to playsets.

Besides the show has been waning for a few years now and the poeple who watch it are mostly people our age (20-30ish) who have been fans for the last 11 years since it started. Those are also the people who are excited about the toy line.

But that doesn't mean that Hasbro can get along fine without children buying their toys. Look at the POTJ line; it was focused almost ENTIRELY towards collectors because in between movies, children wouldn't want to buy StarWars toys. So Hasbro switched gears in order to keep the line going until Ep2. They'll probably do the same next year until Ep3 is released. But they lost a lot of money last year also. Money they want to recoup this year.

Playmates also probably paid about 1/10th or less for the Simpsons license than Hasbro did for Star Wars. They can afford to miss out on children and still make a good profit.


Originally posted by sith pedagog
By the way, I don't think that toys represents less than 2% of sales. I worked for WalMart and you have to remember Christmas time. 2% is a very low estimate, and it is a very important department.

I don't deny that it's an important department, and you're right that during Xmas I'm sure those numbers go up. But there's no way that Wal-Mart will focus their buying and selling strategies on just the toy aisle.

Think about the difference in prices between CDs, DVDs, Televisions etc.... Let's say a CD is generally $13, and I would be willing to bet that most stores sell as many CDs a day as they do action figures which are only $6. That would mean CD's alone make twice as much money per day as action figures. Then think about how many clothes and fishing poles and snack foods and lord-knows whatelse they sell per day and I think 2% is a pretty fair estimate of the toys profit making.

Now all of those numbers are basically straight out of my head, and I'm not a Wal-Mart manager or anything so they could be way off. I'm just trying to put it into perspective. Wal-Mart carries a TON of different products and most of them are more expensive than action figures. It also depends on whether you count things like kids bicycles as toys, and several other factors, but I think it's a pretty valid estimate.:)

corporal AMF
05-30-2002, 04:50 PM
In fact, pedagog, I suppose they've hired marketing proffesionals and they have developed an strategy...I have friend who studied marketing and they spent hours developing plans and studying statistics.........maybe we are complaining because they don't listen to what we're expecting.....maybe they reach a profit point with the sales for children, and if we (the 30+20 something) are happy is a bonus........I mean, all of us would be happy with one of each figure plus a couple of vehicles and army builders......I'm happy to say that I own aprox 99% of POTF2 & TPM & POTJ, but that was a work of patience and years........
U're right that today kids are thinking about spiderman, LOTR, MIB2, and all that stuff...I remember in my childhod years that my concern were SW, masters of the universe and nothing else........

Yes it's a pitty for collectors that Hasblo for sure doesn't care very much for us exept in between movies.......

corporal AMF
05-30-2002, 04:53 PM
I never bought through WM or TRU or FAO........I used online stores.......that's more expensive stuff and leads me to control what I want to buy (sometimes :) ).

corporal AMF
05-30-2002, 05:03 PM
Anyway I do like simpsons:rolleyes:, and I payed $25 for lisa on Ebay !
But to answer the original question:

Hasbro Mocks the Collector?
Answer : YES

sith pedagog
05-30-2002, 05:15 PM
Yeah you are right about the marketing professionals, and some of us are unhappy with the way the figures are being marketed, but the stores and Hasbro themselves have to be upset too. And I don't think that they are reaching the target profit with any group. Therefor they need a new strategy in my opinion. I think maybe they have done worse than expected on the last 2 or 3 lines. Good points corporal AMF.

That leads me into pthfnder89's comments about lisencing. You are probably right. They problem may be initiated with the huge fees!! Maybe they are forced to set a huge goal because of their initial investment! Interesting! Thus the overproduction.

As far as the toy department goes. There are a lot more things to consider. Like the TV or CD. Mark up % is the key factor along with sales. I may make 8% (believe me this is a reasonable #) on a TV and sell say 3 or 4 of that model each week for $100. My profit is $$24-32. But many toys have a mark up of %50 or more (like I said I don't know the exact figure on SW but I will get it). Plus I will sell many more $3 or $5 toys. Say SW figures for example. If I sell 100 figures and make $2 each, that is $200 versus the 30 or so for that TV set. The small items end up being big profit even if actual sales $$ are elss than the high end items. And profit is what counts. That is also a good reason why WM continues to invest in a "losing" line like SW. They mark them down but still make a profit.

Turbowars
05-30-2002, 08:56 PM
Hey, everyone knows the insider sucks and Hasbro has crappy tactics. It's not a new issue. Kenner did the same thing and Hasbro just can't get away from it. What TRU needs to do is take those "Fn" Jar Jar's off the shelf hold them until clearance time and put some new crap on the pegs. I'm really getting sick of seeing Jar Head and Zams. Even Clone troopers are warming the pegs and that bring up another point. Why in the hell did Hasbro put out a red Clone so early? If they would have made a white Clone, they would be flying off the pegs as they say. You can't make an army of Reds!

chrisc
05-30-2002, 09:53 PM
I have never really read the Star Wars Insider but the more I hear from you guys it makes me not want to read it. As for the part about the figures I am getting fed up with Hasbro. I live in Walterboro, South Carolina ( a place thats on very few maps) and my Walmart and Kmart dont get jack as far as figures are concerned. I have to travel a whole freakin hour to even get a chance at the good figures and I still can't find them. Usally I get them from Ebay but the prices are so high I cant afford them. Hasbros distribution and quality stinks. If anyone is selling a AOTC Yoda Please sell him to me. Just cant find him.

JediTricks
05-30-2002, 11:01 PM
Originally posted by JarJarBinks
The article is no doubt based on projections with test marketing the figures, not to mention seeing them sell for insane money on ebay before they came out. Also, there is no "one per case" figures, everything has been pretty evenly packed in the cases.
Originally posted by JediTricks in response
2) Packing 2 Dookus per case was close enough to "one per case", and the point isn't that Hasbro wrote an inaccuracy about the Saga line, it's that they KNOW it's a problem with the modern Star Wars line and they STILL don't do anything about it to HELP the collecting community.
Something I forgot about was that it wasn't just 2 per case, it was worse! On April 23rd, there were 10 different cases shipping to retailers, and only one of those cases had 2 dookus in it! That's way more pitiful than just "one per case"!!!


Originally posted by Rogue II
It seems like there is more Star Wars figures on the shelves now than there was when TPM came out.There are! IIRC, Episode I released with only 18 basic figures; in comparison, Episode II released with 27 figures!

And it's not like Hasbro didn't do this "shortpack" thing before, they had a collection 1 case back in May of '99 that had NO Mauls and an increase of Jar Jars and Anakins. So even though there was nearly 6 months' worth of buzz about how Jar Jar was gonna be annoying and Darth Maul was gonna be cool, Hasbro evenpacked Maul with Jar Jar on initial release and soon after pulled the Maul figure altogether from the case. Now they do the same thing, they put a character like Dooku who has 10 times more buzz and at least a few minutes more screentime than Senator Jar Jar in ONE case and shortpacks the figure in that case, then they put out several cases with senator Jar Jar. If Hasbro gave kids as much early access to main villains as they did Jar Jar figures, maybe the kids wouldn't get frustrated and quickly tire of collecting SW figures. But Hasbro's actions repeatedly demonstrate a lack of respect for kids AND collectors in this manner.


Hasbro might think they're getting eyes in the doors of retailers with this game, but I think there's a lot more to be said for customer satisfaction over customer DISsatisfaction. I know when I succeed at a store, when I find that 'hot new action figure' there, I'll be more interested in going back there than risking a different retail chain. And the more I don't find a new figure, the more these 2 things happen:
1) the figure becomes less new and thus, less hot;
2) I feel like spending less money because I get frustrated with the line AND the store.
Now, if parents, kids, or other collectors also have those reactions, then Hasbro has once again doomed that retailer to being on the receiving end of an adversarial role with their customers rather than one of cooperation. It may cause a short gain, but Hasbro's kid market dropped from 80% to 50% about 2 years ago, that doesn't mean they got more adult collectors, it simply means their main buying base began eroding away -- they're not replacing the missing kid sales with ANYBODY, they're just losing customers with their shoddy way of doing business.

Bottom line, Hasbro seems to be showing great disrespect to their Star Wars customers and they don't even realize that this is hurting them as a corporation AND all of their target buying market.

Jedi Juice
05-30-2002, 11:16 PM
I never knew a toy manufacturer could be so corrupt as impeding Star Wars fans to collect the action figures, but this is ridiculous. What turned out to be a fun hobby for fans and collectors alike is becoming a race to find the newest figures before anyone else, diminishing the "good guys'" chance to find their collectibles.

Anyway,

Adios

tagmac
05-31-2002, 12:00 AM
It's amazing what Hasbro has done. For the past year and a half, each new assortment had all new figures (with the exception of Zutton/ Eeth Koth). Not only were they easier to find in stores, but sites like Entertainment Earth were selling them by the case, or as sets. Now, ordering a set means having to get two pegwarmers along with Palpatine - I just couldn't do it. That damn Jar Jar/Nikto/Plo Koon trio has shown up in FOUR separate case assortments, including these newer ones! It's downright ridiculous. Right now, I only need DP, Palp, Enodr Soldier, and Massiff, but I have a bad feeling I'm gonna have to buy them from the flea market. The local TRU hasn't had anything new since the 23rd, and the rest of the stores still have the older assortments. Maybe if Hasbro would go back to 4 figs per case (3x or 4X each), there'd be fewer problems. This brings back so many memories of the Luke/Han/Vader repacks in every case assortment back in '95-'97 that made the newer figs nearly impossible back then. It's just plain disgusting!

Vortex
05-31-2002, 12:47 AM
yea that would be really nice if they did break the cases down with 3 to 4 new figs counts per case. But looking back on it when I was kid, I remember pushing the figs to one side to find some new stuff. I think hasbro is still sort of in that mind set, send out old figs, with new, incase the old ones are gone, sort of thinking.

Back durning the original films, the pegs were always full of stormies, lukes, hans, vaders, etc. Same figures but they just had the movie logo or name on the cards, so even back then there were massive amounts of peg warmers.

I don't think hasbro's thinking has changed much from then to now. For as popular as the line was back then, they are probably thinking "why change a good thing". I know at this point it no longer applies or should apply, but I have a boss that still thinks and plans the way he did in the late 70's and early 80's. He's big on routine and not changing a badly working system since its a way that works for him, and a way he understands...and to quote him "I don't want to constatnly re-invent the wheel when it's still working fine." And sad to say, time and technology is passing him buy and we're loosing jobs because of it. I'm wondering if Hasbro has the same mind set it did in the 70's and 80's. Why change a good thing...

Wolfwood319
05-31-2002, 01:09 AM
Well, all I know is that I'm getting a little sick of all this. I've just about given up on the whole collecting game, and really only want 1 or 2 of the figures that are coming out later. I'm sick of seeing nothing but the first 14 flood the shelves of local retail outlets. I overheard some employees at a Target talking about them, they basically said that because none of the things on the shelves were selling, that they weren't putting anything new out, and they were even sending cases back to the warehouse.

I really don't blame Hasbro alone though. Its the whole collecting aspect in general that shot itself in the foot. Hasbro has already gotten all their money (mostly) from all the figures we see on the shelves. The ones hurting now are the stores themselves, who have all this product that isn't selling. If a figure sells, they're happy; whether its a Count Dooku or OPD Anakin, they don't care. They don't know off hand which are the "chase" or "rare" figures, but I don't think it matters in the long run either. They get in 1 new case of the new figures, and the dozen or so figures in that case sell, being bought up by collectors. But also in that given week, let's say that 12-14 figures(That the store already had for some time, i.e. the first 14) are bought up by kids, casual fans, etc. That store just made the same amount of money, without the extra hassle.

Retail outlets fell into Hasbro's and Lucasfilm's marketing ploy (again) and ordered insane amounts of new figures. So I think we'll being seeing another fallout, even bigger than the E1 fiasco, and it'll probably happen for E3 as well. The initial figures for each new "Line" will be overly plentiful, but any figures after that will be few and far between.

All I know is, I'm not "hunting" for figures anymore. Its too much effort, and my interest in Star Wars in general is diminishing. I won't be standing in front of a Wal-Mart at 6 a.m. for any reason.

As for the "Hasbro mocks the collector" deboggle; well I think that Hasbro has always taken the collector market for granted. They figure that just about anything put out will be bought buy collectors, so they don't care. They're trying to get others (kids mostly) to buy the figures as well. That's why we see so many of the new figures geared towards kids (i.e. gimmicks, ump-teen resculpts of main characters, etc.) They see words like "completist" get thrown around on "fan-sites" like these, and they assume that a majority of collectors are like this, so they don't put too much attention on the collector aspect, especially in a movie year.

Anyway, that's what I think.

darthzirock
05-31-2002, 01:23 AM
OK, when I saw INSIDER #60 I thought that was an AD, not an ARTICLE! Dang, that's pretty fricking SHAMELESS of Hasbro; but, they're pretty shameless to begin with ($6 for figures that contain less plastic than a $1.49 Bic pen?!).

I've been colecting STAR WARS figures since there have been SW figures, and it was far easier with the original lines. First, they were only $1.98 per figure! I could buy five at a pop with each week's allowance! Plus, I could walk to the local Woolworth's (remember those?) and get the figures. Buy the time Kenner phased out the "Power of the Force (1)" line in 1985, the figures had gone up to $2.98 apiece, but were well worth it and still not terribly difficult to find.

Today, though, it's a nightmare. First of all, I'm not 20-30, I just turned FORTY! :eek: I still have several figures I'm missing from EPISODE I, "Power of the Force 2 (CTC)," and that blasted Bo Shek from "Power of the Jedi." I refuse to buy online, because hunting through the stores is SUPPOSED to be part of the hobby. The thing that makes it a nightmare are the toy scalpers! They really ought to realize that they need to 1.) get a real job and 2.) stop fouling the hobby for the rest of us!

By the way, any North/South Carolina figure colectors out there? Please check out the Carolinas STAR WARS Collecting Club at:

http://www.thejawa.net/cgi-bin/YaBB/GCSWCC/YaBB.cgi

Darth Narcis
05-31-2002, 01:24 AM
i have been late night shopping at walmart a few times now, and i am getting tired of the b!tch that seems to "run" the toy section giving me the "everything we have is out BS", when i see new cases lying around... the other night a friend and i were walking around walmart waiting for them to open the cases(hoping) and after about 40 mins or so we were confronted, accused of loitery(it isnt), and basically told to leave! I got so ****ed! I told the night manager that i was going to buy several items, but now im not, and she was like, "well listen, you can get what you need", and i was like no way, leave me alonel...

this star wars figure thing is even making the people in WAL MART paraniod...

Vortex
05-31-2002, 08:07 AM
Yea its definitly happening again. Yesterday I went to both, Target, WM, and a TRU. Target had about a half an isle dedicated to the new figs, and now its down to about less than a 1/4, and all the pegs are chock full with the 23rd releases. TRU only has a display up front, and 1 bin, the pegs aren't full, but the section they had in the boys toys section is gone. The only thing you can find there now is some old green cards. The had a mess of bespin security, and gungun soldiers, and that little mysterious green droid that was offered up in the sneak preview figs, but even then the pegs weren't full. Wal-Marts isle looks like a storm hit it. Pegs empty, ships gone, stuff scattered.

From this vantage point it looks like Hasbro's big push for figs is a bunch of b.s. the line is already going cold and none of the big chains are restocking the pegs. There's no reason to hang around the area that leads to the dock or back room...there's nothing new, and I wonder how much is actually on order or has shipped in the last month.

I'm getting fed up like the others, but I think I'll hang in there a little more. I already see myself going the rout of ordering cases or figs from secondary sellers. There's no way I'm going to find any new delux figs, or any new figs if the displays are shrinking and disapearing, and they don't even stock the pegs with old figs or what they have.

Forhekset
05-31-2002, 08:15 AM
The Wal-Mart I usually go to started out with both sides of one aisle dedicated to SW, then moved to one side, now it's like 1/2 of one side. And they have soooooo many pegwarmers (Clonetroopers, OPD Anakin, Zam Wesell, JarJar, all the Jedi, Padme...) that I doubt they're even putting a whole lot of new stuff out. Yesterday they had a Qui-Gon Jinn and a few Endor Rebel Soldiers....today that darn Qui-Gon was still there hanging out with one of the Endor Rebel Soldiers. :rolleyes:

KEBco
05-31-2002, 12:26 PM
Normally I just read the posts to see what is going on, but I feel I must respond to this one.

As a small retailer that buys directly from Hasbro, I must say a lot of the information here is not exactly correct.

There really has not been a short pack figure in the EP2 line. There are certain case assortments that may have only one of a figure, but that figure will be in another, possibly two other waves. With only 12 figures in a case, it is not possible to get all 54 (so far) figures in the box. Hasbro tries to get the most popluar figures to the retailers first, with the support figures coming in later waves.

If you look at the case assortments that have been posted many times, you will see exactly what figure is packed in what case. If you look closely, you will find that the R2-D2 and Zam Wesell figures are the ones that are somewhat short packed (sounds impossible with these hanging on the pegs). The Count Dooku was only two per case initially, but will be included in future waves. He really is not a rare figure.

The large retailers, WMT, TRU, etc order a ton of the initial waves to get large amounts of figures on the shelf - first. After the first month or so, they drastically reduce their orders and everyone is back to the hunt and search routine. You would have to be the first in the stores at 6AM to get something from the 2 or 3 cases they receive.

Hasbro has in fact reduced the total number of figures being produced. They along with Lucus did not want another EP1 fiasco. So far this year, we have been allocated about 75% of what we ordered. There also seems to be a large amount of damaged figures coming directly out of the case. We contribute this to a thin card back and a the case is not as strong as some used previously. By not having mint figures available, this will add to the short pack theory. Then there are scalpers (speculators), but we will not go there.

Bottom line is - there really is no one figure more rare than another. There is less product being produced, but this is across the complete range, so every figure is as available as any other (very few exceptions).

And last, a plug for us. We sell figures. Same price on every figure. One figure, twenty or cases. We do not inflate the price for the "rare" ones. We also have our exclusive "One Of Every Figure" club. Come give us a look.

Thanks :D

CrossWizard
05-31-2002, 12:35 PM
Hey KEBco, I placed an order with you guys about 2 days ago(wednesday to be exact) and since it was my first time ordering from you I wondered if you sent confirmation emails after the order is placed to let customers know if the order is being processed or do you just wait until the item ships or is ready to ship to send the emails, cause so far I havent recieved it.

Thanks.

brentfett
05-31-2002, 12:50 PM
Good to hear from you KEBco. I've had a few successful orders from you guys. Chime in more often, we could use the perspective of someone who deals personally with Hasbro on these boards.

KEBco
05-31-2002, 01:05 PM
Glad to know I am welcome.

When placing an order, you should have received a confirmation at the end of your transaction.

We can not send a personalized confirmation because we have so many orders (but I would like to).

Thanks for your orders and kind words. We try!!

JEDIpartner
05-31-2002, 02:10 PM
I love KEBco. They rock da hizzay!

quigon_jimm
05-31-2002, 02:29 PM
I can't be hard on Hasbro for their "projections", coming from a marketing background I know that companies will do what they can to hype demand, so its not a big deal to me. Also, as some have mentioned, many stores in my area have a problem keeping many of the figures on the shelves, so it is not a total inaccuracy on Hasbro's part.

Now for the controversial part of my reply: Thrawn talks about the "intentional" short packing of figures. I know that I am in the minority when I say that I love short packing, nothing is more fulfilling in collecting figures than finding a rare figure. I am definitely for making some figures more of a collectors item by short packing. On the Hasbro side, short packing makes the figures sell even faster due to the demand for hard to get items, so it makes sense on all sides as far as I am concerned.

Tootles,

Quigon_Jimm

SuperBattleDroid88
05-31-2002, 02:40 PM
I went to Wal-Mart yesterday and they had a couple of boxes of Starwars figures in the aisle and they were stocking them up. A stocker there opened the boxes and let me look through all the boxes and even helped me look... I didn't find anything but 23rd figures...They had some Yodas and Dookus though but I already have them.... I don't know why Hasbro keeps shipping the 23rd figures all the time here!!!! But she was very very nice to help me find them... Very patient, kind , and helpful!!!!!!!!!!!

Turbowars
05-31-2002, 05:56 PM
You know if you guys didn't bring this up, I wouldn't have even thought about it, because this has been going on for years and there's nothing we can do about it. I happy to say, I haven't had a hard time findig any of the figures, but Bespin Luke. I hit TRU on Sat mornings and they have the new waves. I know that a lot of you can't find them so easily, but at one point the stores will get the new waves. If you are like me and have to have them ASAP, well you're screwed.

JangoFart
05-31-2002, 11:59 PM
Thrawn:

My man, I think it's well past high time you step back from your duties and get away. You have, apparently, become too jaded by the day-to-day grind of HAVING to be involved with Star Wars collecting - as opposed to WANTING to be.

I, myself, ENJOY going from store to store looking for that hard-to-find figure! I take my 2 kids and tell them what figure/variation we are looking for and we have FUN being FANS of Star Wars and collectors of the merchandise. Sure, it can be frustrating at times. However, to a true fan those times are the exception; not the rule.

What should Hasbro print in THEIR magazine? That they over-estimated the attraction of Star Wars and its toys to children as compared to when we, the Trilogy Generation, grew up? That they action figure market ITSELF is over-saturated with so MANY different kinds of figures? That with the proliferation of cable television, the internet, and video game consoles the action figure market just doesn't have the prominence it once had?

Hasbro's printing ANY of the above truths would be as foolish as your rant. The bottom line is: They make something that we, the collectors, want. Much to their chargin, this same "something" is not something that the average 8 - 12 yr old boy or girl wants. If they want to puff up their product to increase interest, where's the harm? Who TRULY gives a rat's *** if they print that interest is sky high among everyone when it's only sky high among true collectors?

Heck, Pespi says all the time it beats Coke in taste tests, yet has half the market share that Coke has? If everyone loves Pespi so much, why the hell are the market shares not reversed? Because it's advertising. Plain and simple.

As a fan and as a collector, I'm happy to see every dollar Hasbro is sinking into Star Wars toys via advertising, merchandising or manufacturing. The day they stop doing so is the day we stop having Star Wars figures to collect.

Go on a vacation, my friend. Get away and forget about the "truths" we all know. And, most importantly, get over it. It's a great hobby to have, collecting Star Wars figures. I'm sure you ONCE knew that.

J

tagmac
06-01-2002, 01:40 AM
Bad news guys....according to the front page, the newest case has TWO shortpacks! ONE EACH of Endor Han and Bespin Chewie, but 2 each of the Bespin Wave and pilot Obi-Wan. THANK YOU HASBRO! The only way to get these two figs now is gonna be through scalpers unless you adjust those case assortments!

quigon_jimm
06-01-2002, 02:32 AM
Tagmac stop your crying would you. A true collector would love the chase of short packed figures. You on the other hand want every figure handed to you. If you are persistant there is no reason why you can't find the short packed figures, sounds to me like you're just too lazy to want to search.

JediTricks
06-01-2002, 06:41 AM
2 more single-packed figures in a new wave, that's astoundingly cruel to the unlucky majority who won't be finding these for whatever amount of time they have to wait to find their... diamonds? precious metals? Franklin Mint limited edition collectors plates? Oh no, that's right, TOYS. What kind of "collector-friendly" and/or "kid-friendly" business model says that "trickle-UP" marketing is good for customer relations? So it's ok that Hasbro is making it so only one out of every 15 collectors can get their hands on a new figure now because in 1 to 6 months it might get dumped on the rest of us after we've spent countless hours searching for it -OR- we, the entire buying market who has failed to get this stuff, risk being patient and end up getting screwed by Hasbro never meeting the demand like with TC-14, R2-B1, non-dirty Scout Trooper, Swimming Jar Jar, CTC Motti, Ree-Yees, etc.?

Hasbro is still acting shocked about losing the kid market - that market that used to account for somewhere around 80% of the buying power in this line - with SW, but do they know any kids?!? Kids aren't patient any more, few of them are willing to stick with a line that instead of rewarding them with figures they want, slaps them in the face with figures they have no interest in and then tells them to "be patient, it might be coming soon". Uh, gee, why are the kids leaving? Maybe because the current marketing strategy reflects feeding the collector/speculator/scalper aftermarket over satisfying the kids' and casual buyers' desire for figures - instead showing them empty hands and time-exhausting, misery-inducing hunts that could have been better spent on things like PLAYING with the Star Wars toys. So instead of satisfying the demand of 80 customers, they satisfy the demands of 10 customers who, if they're speculators and/or scalpers, will turn around and reap the benefits of Hasbro's product while keeping Hasbro themselves from seeing any of that aftermarket-value money.


Quigon-Jimm, they can't all be shortpacks, so what happens when Hasbro fills this lust for HTF (that's ebay speak for "Hard To Find") figures? If Hasbro wanted to fill your desire, they'd have to OVERPACK other figures to fill that space, which is already what choked nearly every previous SW line to death. Seems like a selfish mindset to me, "oh boy, I got something someone else doesn't have", well unless you personally are willing to prop up the sagging market singlehandedly out of your own pocket, I don't see how this attitude could keep the line going.

This isn't panning for gold, this is buying Star Wars toys - why shouldn't tagmac expect to go into a store that just got a new shipment and find new products he wants to buy? So Hasbro can feed the greed? We already have scalpers and hoarders doing enough of that.

Originally posted by JangoFart
I, myself, ENJOY going from store to store looking for that hard-to-find figure! I take my 2 kids and tell them what figure/variation we are looking for and we have FUN being FANS of Star Wars and collectors of the merchandise. Sure, it can be frustrating at times. However, to a true fan those times are the exception; not the rule.
So you and your kids hunt for the wiley, elusive... toy? That doesn't sound like a "true fan" of Star Wars toys to me, that sounds like a "true fan" of searching for things -- and I don't see how being the former must demand being the latter... except by Hasbro's actions, of course.

Hasbro doesn't want to satiate the market right away, they want to prop up demand as much as possible and then pray that action doesn't drive their potential customers away. They'd rather short-pack figures to get so-called "collectors" all fired up than simply release product in enough amounts even trying to satisfy the larger customer base -- even though they know that the short-packing is an insult to the larger SW buying customer base.

Forhekset
06-01-2002, 10:35 AM
Blech! 1 each of Han and Chewie? They'll be even more horrible to find than Bespin Luke and Vader are right now. Heck, I even overheard two scalpers at Target this morning complaining about how hard it was to find any new stuff in my area. :sur:

quigon_jimm
06-01-2002, 01:00 PM
JediTricks my friend, I understand your unhappiness with Hasbro and its methods of conducting business. But who the hell are you, me, or anyone else in this forum to tell Hasbro how to run their business. Quite frankily, if you want to have a say in how Hasbro is run, become a stockholder. And unless your a stock holder you have no real right to complain about how Hasbro does things or do you have the right to tell them how many figures that they need to pack or who they need to market their figures to. It's kinda like if you don't vote in an election you have no right to complain about the policies of our government.

As I said in my previous post, I am happy that some figures are going to be short packed, it makes the finds so much more intriguing. If I find a plethora of Padme's, its no big deal, but if I get to Toys R Us or Wal-Mart and find a fresh case with a short packed Chewie than its really cool. My friend and I scour the stores in our town looking for figures and now I am getting relocated by my company and this will allow us to search for figures in two areas now so this is good stuff and it never gets old finding hard to get pieces. Its the fun of the hunt and to the victor go the spoils my friend.

P.S. I wonder if everyone was up in arms in the '80's when they couldn't find Amanaman or some of the other hard to find pieces from the original line?

P.P.S. As for scalpers, I'm not one of em and I frankily they annoy me to no end as well, but again I don't think that anyone has the right to belittle them either. Last time I checked this is a free country, one based on capitalism so if a few people decide to make some money off of this hobby its their right. You know people collect classic cars as well, do the collectors of classic cars really have the right to complain about people who buy an old car just to sell it and make money, I don't believe so. And, I feel that the same can be said for those who make money off of our hobby. After all, this isn't the USSR!

JangoFart
06-01-2002, 02:24 PM
Very well said, Qui-Gon Jimm.

How foolish and arrogant of some of these folks to think they can dictate the who, what, when, and where of distribution, manufacturing and marketing.

These people have forgotten what it means to be a collector. For instance, Jay Leno has a TON of cars. I wonder if he walked onto a lot somewhere and there was EVERY SINGLE CAR he was looking for? Just WAITING to be bought.

Some of you folks need to get rid of the instant gratification sentiment. Either that, or spend your life being disappointed and irate because you are not getting "your way".

J

Forhekset
06-01-2002, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by quigon_jimm


P.P.S. As for scalpers, I'm not one of em and I frankily they annoy me to no end as well, but again I don't think that anyone has the right to belittle them either. Last time I checked this is a free country, one based on capitalism so if a few people decide to make some money off of this hobby its their right. You know people collect classic cars as well, do the collectors of classic cars really have the right to complain about people who buy an old car just to sell it and make money, I don't believe so. And, I feel that the same can be said for those who make money off of our hobby. After all, this isn't the USSR!

That's some pretty flawed logic you have there. Classic car collectors don't stake out the "classic car" store in the morning, buy up all the classic cars off the "classic car pegs", then go down the flea market & resell their classic cars. You're comparing apples and oranges.

Not only that, but I don't think anyone on this forum who despises scalpers is of the opinion that they don't have a right to make money. Sure they do. Everybody has a right to make money (legally). The point is not "Do they have the right?". The point is, "Is it the right thing to do?". Most people here would say no. I personally will continue to belittle scalpers as much or as little as I want to, thanks. I do still have the freedom of speech, don't I?

JangoFart
06-01-2002, 03:35 PM
That's some pretty flawed logic you have there. Classic car collectors don't stake out the "classic car" store in the morning, buy up all the classic cars off the "classic car pegs", then go down the flea market & resell their classic cars. You're comparing apples and oranges.

Yeah! Wouldn't it be UNHEARD OF for a dealer to, say, stake out AUCTIONS and buy of the classic cars at a cheap price and then take them to their lot!! I bet that NEVER happens!

Bottom line: "Scalpers" have given me the opportunity to have a Jorg Sacul figure; a Toy Fair Vader; a bloody-hand Luke. Do I CARE if they made some money off of me in the process?? Hell NO! How else would I have gotten those figures?? Exactly.....

J

QLD
06-01-2002, 03:42 PM
Christ........not the "scalper" discussion again.

The only thing worse than "scalpers".....

Is talking about them......

Although I did sell a Bloody Luke for 50 bucks.
I'd do it again if I had another.
Personally, I open all of my figures.
I 2 bloody lukes, one for me, one for my friend.

Then I decided, well, I dont care if mine is bloody or not.
So I put the auction on ebay starting at 7.00.
I also gave it a Buy It Now price of 50.00, because I noticed that they were going for around that price.

10 minutes later someone bought it.

I mean.....maybe it's just me, but wouldn't I be silly not to take the extra money. Should I have made the Buy It Now Price 7.99 to be fair to my fellow collectors? Christ, I needed to make up money for what I had just bought anyway.

I dunno, I am probably not making much sense.

However, I get so tired of hearing people complain about scalpers. It's annoying for sure, but I think hearing people whine about it constantly is more annoying.

Forhekset
06-01-2002, 03:53 PM
Yeah well, arguing with hot-headed overemotional morons on the Internet is rather unproductive regardless of the topic, so I think this'll be my last post in this thread.

Oh and Quite-Long, I won't tell you that you shouldn't have taken the money. You do what you want. I personally traded my extra bloody Lukes to other collectors figure for figure, but that's my choice. Something is only worth what people are willing to pay for it, and if you want to sell somebody a $6 piece of plastic for 50 bucks, more power to you.

QLD
06-01-2002, 04:01 PM
Yeah, I would have traded it evenly for another figure if there was one I didn't have. Fortunately, I have everything released so far.

JangoFart
06-01-2002, 04:36 PM
That's a GREAT idea, Forhekset!! I'll trade you an EP1 C-3PO for a 12-back Vader!! Hell, under YOUR logic, we'll make that trade and you will have to give me about $3.00, b/c those 12-backs only COST about $2 - $3 new!

Where do I sign up??

Geesh.....

quigon_jimm
06-01-2002, 05:52 PM
Thanks for the backup Jango. It annoys me to know end to read these comments by everyone who acts as if they are the Red Cross and believe that everyone should be nice and not make money off of items. Hell, I admit I bought an extra Royal Starship at TRU a year ago for my nephew but he turned out not to be big into Star Wars so I just fired the thing on Ebay and the item which I paid $20.00 for sold for $80.00. I should probably be ashamed of myself and probably even be beaten to death with a gaffe stick (damn I hate when that happens).

There is totally too much riding of high horses in this place, with so many acting like they are saints and that everyone who has made even a dime off of a figure is somehow below them. Get over it people, life is too short to be mad at everyone who doesn't do what you like, even scalpers.

KEBco
06-01-2002, 08:36 PM
Seems that a few did not understand my post about figures coming in a later wave.
The collection 1 wave 0017 does in fact have one each of Han and Chewy - BUT there are three each in wave 0018 and two of each in wave 001A.
This does not sound like a short pack figure to me.
It's just impossible to get every figure in every case.
There are no shortages of ANY figure, mabe just short in one wave.
If you cannot find one now, don't give in to high prices and someone's claim that THIS figure is rare. Wait a while. It will be available.
:frus:

Beast
06-01-2002, 08:57 PM
Originally posted by KEBco
Seems that a few did not understand my post about figures coming in a later wave. The collection 1 wave 0017 does in fact have one each of Han and Chewy - BUT there are three each in wave 0018 and two of each in wave 001A. This does not sound like a short pack figure to me. It's just impossible to get every figure in every case. There are no shortages of ANY figure, mabe just short in one wave. If you cannot find one now, don't give in to high prices and someone's claim that THIS figure is rare. Wait a while. It will be available. :frus:
Thanks for telling people that KEBco, I knew and told people not to panic, and that they were coming in higher numbers in later cases, but didn't know exactly how many. People need to relax abit, not everyone got the previous wave, so Hasbro wanted to keep shipping Vader, Luke, Mace, and Jango in higher numbers for a little while longer. In my area, I have seen 0 Luke's, 0 Vader's, 1 Jango's, and 6 Mace's. I still need Massiff, Orn Free, Djas and Palpy also. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

pthfnder89
06-02-2002, 02:14 AM
Originally posted by JangoFart
That's a GREAT idea, Forhekset!! I'll trade you an EP1 C-3PO for a 12-back Vader!! Hell, under YOUR logic, we'll make that trade and you will have to give me about $3.00, b/c those 12-backs only COST about $2 - $3 new!

Where do I sign up??

Geesh.....

JangoFart - People who scalp figures have every legal right to do so. I don't think you'll find anyone here who will deny that they are not breaking any laws by tracking down and buying out every figure they can find.

But as Forhekset said, what's being debated is whether or not it's a very moral thing to do. Most posters here tend to think that it isn't. And since Quigonn Jim pointed out that "After all, this isn't the USSR!" any collector on this site who feels that they are being disserviced by these practices has EVERY RIGHT to state how they feel on the subject.

Now as far as your statements on Vintage SW figs and Classic cars goes, I would like to point out that those are not comparable examples. In both of those cases you are refering to collectible items that have been out of production for decades. They are in demand because time has made them less available and more desirable.

In the case of scalping, the scalpers themselves are creating a demand simply by hoarding the product. As I said, is this against the law? No. Is it wrong or at the very least rude and selfish? Well, that's why these boards are here, to discuss our opinions on it...:)

Beast
06-02-2002, 02:22 AM
Exactly, your argument doesn't hole water JangoF. Scalpers themselves, are artificially creating a shortage, and increasing the values on toys that are avaliable now. Vintage figures, and any figures that arn't avaliable now, have value that is more easily tracked, because people arnt trying to run the prices up on them, because their supplies arn't big enough to force an increased demand. But scalpers that go into a store, and clear the pegs of the hot toys, are artificially creating a need out there, for the figures they have, and causing prices to rise, when they shouldn't be.

Look in teh case of figures like the Theater Edition Luke Skywalker, only 50 avaliable per theater. When they first came out they were going for 125.00 or so, because scalpers had a majority, and it was new. They could put any price on it, and sell it. Now they would be lucky to get 45, because there is no market for them. Once again showing that scalpers, only hurt the market on newly released stuff, that is still avaliable at retail. After that, the market settles. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

jeffonthego
06-02-2002, 06:34 AM
Firstly, Hasbro people can't be idiots, may make mistakes, but big companies that have been at their game as long as they have don't make habits of repeatedly screwing up. So obviously pegwarmers are part of their strategy.

Yet, I don't get it. For starters, it is not like some figures cost Hasbro more to make then others, do they? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think an elaborate toy with a few more accessories really cost more for their factories in China to produce. So it's not like some amusement park, where they can only afford to give away a limited number of the good prizes, among a flood of cheap ones. Right?

Ok, so then the idea is that rarity builds interest. True enough. If on the first day of sales, I could pick up every figure in the line I wanted and then be done with it, that wouldn't be much fun. However, fruitlessly (and inconveniently) scouring stores endlessly, only to find much more figures that I don't want than I do, isn't much fun either. And for the record, I have a lot of self-control, unless a figure surprises me (cooler in my hands than on a preview pic on the Internet), I won't just buy something else, so as not to leave emptyhanded.

Recognizing that a producer building artificial rarity into a product is an integral part of feeding a collectors' hobby, there are better ways to do it. For instance, if Hasbro wants to play a numbers game and just get me going back into stores as much as possible, then why not just release a new wave every week or two. That will get me back into the stores regularly (and would still fill this theory about buying something else if need be so as not to leave with nothing).

But the problem is that if 'people can't find ANY of the figures they are looking for (or most), then that goes to far in creating rarity, and just ****es people off, when yet again they are staring at another wall of Jar Jar Binks! This gets me to the crux of my beef with Hasbro.

It is not that there are pegwarmers, but that the ones that are pegwarmers are so obvious. I could have sat down six months ago and made an accurate list of which figures would be haunting stores today. So why create large volumes of figures people don't want. If you are going to make a case with two Dookus, two Yodas and a bunch of filler. Why not make the filler figures that people may want to buy in multiple quantities or down the road.

In other words, don't pack a few cool figures with a load of Jar Jars or Zam Wessels, but with Tusken Raiders and Stormtroopers for instance. If do walk into a store and can't find what I want, it is much more likely that I will make an impulse buy on another stormtrooper or Raider for my collection, than I will on a boring Padme figure that I never wanted in the first place.

Ok, this is getting long, but here's my last point. Instead of trying to create artificial demand (through rarirty) in figures that are automatically going to be at the top of people's lists (like Dooku and Yoda), why not short-produce the figures that uncertain to interest people. In other words, if the rarest figures out there were Padme in her different costumes, then maybe that might excite my collector urges, and create an interest in these figures that would otherwise be pegwarmers. So while Jar Jar Senator does nothing for me as it floods the pegs of my store, if it were one of the rare figures, maybe it would interest me.

Does any of this make sense? Just wondering . . .

JangoFart
06-02-2002, 06:52 AM
I agree w/ you 100%, jeff. One would think that such an obvious thought would have crossed at least ONE mind of all the available brains at Hasbro.

Then again, it seems to me that Hasbro learned nothing from how they produced EP1 figures. I had nightmares of all the Anakins and Jar Jars on the pegs at the same time there were no Mauls. (Until, of course, they flooded the pegs with Mauls....)

I do hope SOMEONE at Hasbro reads some of the good posts that get put up here and takes heed. (Then again, I hope they ignore some of the goons who post here too....) Hopefully, the good posts, like yours, stand out to them as clearly as they stand out to us. But, something tells me that hope is misplaced.

J

jeffonthego
06-02-2002, 07:45 AM
Thanks for the kudos Jango...

I don't know though, obviously everything isn't so simple. I'm sure that there are reasons behind everything, some good, some bad, etc. I really don't want to pretend that I know more about marketing, distribution, etc, than people who are more than likely quite trained and experienced in it at Hasbro. But some things just don't seem to make sense...

I struggle to understand how flooding a market with a product that few people want (ie, obvious pegwarmers from the get-go) serves Hasbro, the retailers or the collectors.

In this day and age of advanced market research, instant consumer feedback/interactivity via the internet, and just-in-time sophisticated manufacturing, why should there be any need for flooding the shelves with instant junk?

Yes, create some rarity. Yes, keep us waiting here and there. Yes, make it fun for us. But be smart about it.

Keep us going for weeks, for months, sure, that is part of the fun of the hunt. But if months after your product launches, it is languishing in large volumes on store shelves of retailers, while at the same time frustratred collectors have not found what they wanted, it seems to me you've screwed something up somewhere.

It's still early I suppose, so for now, I'll keep my fingers crossed...

Turbowars
06-02-2002, 09:45 AM
I see that we have some Scalper Lover's on these forums. They seem so unhappy. It might be because their little people among us honest and sane collectors. What a moron comparing a classic car to a figure. Man I remember when I had a hard time finding my 67 GTA 390 deluxe interior fastback Mustang on the pegs at TRU, so I bought it on E-bay. The shipping was outrageous. Some people should think before they speak.

quigon_jimm
06-02-2002, 12:30 PM
Turbowars, you truly are an ignorant clown! My point with the example I used of classic cars is that every hobby, I don't care if its Star Wars, Classic Cars, or Stamp Collecting, there will always be people who buy these items at low prices and then sell them to collectors to make a profit. You are just another one of these people who need to be instantly gratified with your hobby. And as I stated earlier, I'm not a fan of scalpers, but they do exist, what they do is legal, and as far as I am concerned I know that I am not perfect, unlike some people in these forums who think they can pass judgement on scalpers for their moral aptitude. My view is, let everyone do what they want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. Sure, because of a scalper I may have to go on Ebay and buy a figure for a few extra bucks, but if thats the biggest concern in my life, my priorities are all screwed up.

Jeffonthego, I agree with you. As I said, I have no problem with short packing. I would rather see Jar-Jars and Taun We's short packed, but its not my call. I'll leave that up to the marketing wizards (I use that term loosely) at Hasbro.

Turbowars
06-02-2002, 01:04 PM
Its nice to see that we have some new posters that stand up for scalping. I think other people need to get off their high horse and not come in here with an attitude. `As far as I can see you have your head up your @SS jimm. This is a fun hobby and we don't need scalpers making it even harder for us to find figures with Hasbro short packing. We do have a right to complain, because we are the consumer and without us Hasbro would be nothing along with your marketing background. It's one thing to express your opinion, but it's another to bash everyone that doesn't agree with your little mind. Feel free to bash some more, it's expected from someone with your background.

mrmiller
06-02-2002, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by jeffonthego

Yet, I don't get it. For starters, it is not like some figures cost Hasbro more to make then others, do they? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think an elaborate toy with a few more accessories really cost more for their factories in China to produce. So it's not like some amusement park, where they can only afford to give away a limited number of the good prizes, among a flood of cheap ones. Right?


BTW- great post. I do believe that if they (Hasbro) are going to shortpack anything, they should short pack or short run the less desirable figures to create interest (Swimming Jar Jar?) to sell more figures. It would just seem to make more business sense. But on to your quote- I do believe that some figures cost more to make, and therefore may be produced in smaller numbers. If it's just a cent or two more to produce, after production of tens of thousands, that money starts to add up. And as everyone knows- the money is the bottom line to everything. I come to the realization that Hasro does not care about the collectors of their Star Wars line. Most of us collectors are of such the type, that we'll continue to buy what they produce, no matter what. It's not our love of Hasbro, but or love of Star Wars. Honestly, I think they take more advantage of the hardcore collector lines than any other (Star Wars, Barbie, Hot Wheels). Just like the scalpers- they're just out to make a buck.

-Just my 2 cents.

=MATT=

quigon_jimm
06-02-2002, 04:51 PM
What a moron comparing a classic car to a figure.

I believe that your little quote above is bashing. So, once again, don't try to act like you are above everybody. Seems that you are the one bashing people such as myself due to my opinion. You don't like scalpers you bash them, you don't like my opinion of not having a problem with people using the open market for monetary gain you bash me. You don't get it both ways, you bash, than u get bashed in return. If you have such a huge problem with Hasbro short packing and you think that they owe us something, than don't buy their product, plain and simple. You seem so high on your moral horse that you think that you might put your money where your overused mouth is and stop buying something from a company that you so seem to loath due to its business practices.

You have a problem with my support of free markets and an open economy in which buyers and sellers alike can partake in the ebon flow of supply and demand, so be it. I have a problem with people such as yourself that whine and whine about how they can't find a figure for like a day and that its completely unfair. It took me like 6 months to find a swimming Jar Jar and one day I stopped in a TRU in Boston when I was there on business, and i cracked open a case with two of them, it was exhilerating to find it and thats the beauty of short packing some figures and I for one will never complain. It's nice to find something you look months for because finding the figure makes it all worth it.

Rogue II
06-02-2002, 09:24 PM
Ok, these are toys we are talking about. If you want to make money, invest in the stock market, buy a savings bond, or go bet on some horses. I don't see the point spending $6 on a figure and selling for $10-$15 when you consider the time and money you spend driving around looking for a specific figure. Not to mention, the risk of not being able to sell it. After all, they are only worth what someone will pay for it. In my opinion, it isn't the most efficient way to make money.

I collect because I want the figure, not for the "thrill of the hunt" or because I think they are worth money. Unlike the toys from the 70s and 80s, none of these toys will be worth a great deal of money. They are a nice replacement to the toys I lost or never had when I was a kid. I have never paid more than $10 for a basic figure since the POTF2 line came out. I consider myself lucky because I have just about every figure that was released that I wanted. In fact, the only ones I am missing are CTC Leia, CTC Admiral Motti, and the Mynock Hunt Cinema scene. I didn't really want any Episode 1 or 2 figures, I stick to the OT characters. I don't have very many vehicles, so I'm not upset I never saw the latest Tie Bomber and Snowspeeder in Walmart. Likewise, I could care less if I ever saw a Toy Fair Vader or a Jorg Sacul. To me, those 2 figures are for people that went to those events(and because of my $10 rule, ha ha).

All I want from Hasbro is try to produce enough of each figure to meet demand. KEBco says that none of the figures are being short packed. I am going to take his word for it because he deals with Hasbro more than I do. I know there is nothing that can be done about scalpers. They are not just a Star Wars problem. I was watching the NASCAR race today, and the announcers made a comment on how ridiculous it was that people were selling the Hot Wheels sized NASCAR line for $15 each at the race.

JediTricks
06-02-2002, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by quigon_jimm
JediTricks my friend, I understand your unhappiness with Hasbro and its methods of conducting business. But who the hell are you, me, or anyone else in this forum to tell Hasbro how to run their business. Well, 1) it's my right to state my opinion, I didn't deny you your right to do so;
-and-
2) You, me, all of us who come into these forums, we drop a serious amount of coin on Hasbro's products, they don't have to listen to us, but if they don't at least consider what the majority of their buying public wants, then they'll eventually find themselves without that buying public (see my "kids from 80% to 50%" point from an earlier post - Hasbro didn't pay enough attention to what kids wanted from Star Wars and they lost 30% of the ENTIRE market).

P.P.S. As for scalpers, I'm not one of em and I frankily they annoy me to no end as well, but again I don't think that anyone has the right to belittle them either. Last time I checked this is a free country, one based on capitalism so if a few people decide to make some money off of this hobby its their right. You know people collect classic cars as well, do the collectors of classic cars really have the right to complain about people who buy an old car just to sell it and make money, I don't believe so. And, I feel that the same can be said for those who make money off of our hobby. After all, this isn't the USSR!
Well, scalpers who buy toys from the toy stores instead of from a wholesaler or Hasbro direct are technically breaking laws and trade regulations, they just don't do it enough to warrant legal action - if 100 scalpers got together as a network, that might even fall under racketeering. These scalpers and hoarders who buy simply to gain value are altering the retail market to inflate an aftermarket, creating false demand and then when the demand dries up, some of them return product back on the retailer to recoup aftermarket losses which creates a problem for the honest retailer. Most of the guys I know who buy up all of TRUs figures don't even have business licenses or DBAs.


Originally posted by JangoFart
How foolish and arrogant of some of these folks to think they can dictate the who, what, when, and where of distribution, manufacturing and marketing.

These people have forgotten what it means to be a collector. For instance, Jay Leno has a TON of cars. I wonder if he walked onto a lot somewhere and there was EVERY SINGLE CAR he was looking for? Just WAITING to be bought.

Some of you folks need to get rid of the instant gratification sentiment. Either that, or spend your life being disappointed and irate because you are not getting "your way".How is it "dictating" policy to Hasbro? Because an article was written showing the facts, asking questions, and leaving theories? Because people are responding in agreement? Because Hasbro has killed off several Star Wars lines in 7 years from making the same mistakes over and over but apparently can't see the patterns?

That classic car analogy is totally off the mark, classic cars cost thousands of dollars, are in limited numbers, and are meant for adults. These are TOYS, mass-produced and expected to be bought for play value first - Hasbro wants to sell AS MUCH PRODUCT AS POSSIBLE and help their retail partners continue to make money, not cater to the whims of a select few. In fact, when these classic cars weren't classics, many of them were ALSO mass-produced in the hope that adults would buy as many as possible. It's only years later that these vehicles gain aftermarket value.

Some of us are already over our "hunter gatherer" phase. Which seems like more fun for kids, playing with toys for hours, or LOOKING for toys for hours?!? And speaking of "foolish", which one of us named himself after the passing of gas again?


Originally posted by KEBco
Seems that a few did not understand my post about figures coming in a later wave.
The collection 1 wave 0017 does in fact have one each of Han and Chewy - BUT there are three each in wave 0018 and two of each in wave 001A.
This does not sound like a short pack figure to me.
It's just impossible to get every figure in every case.
There are no shortages of ANY figure, mabe just short in one wave.
If you cannot find one now, don't give in to high prices and someone's claim that THIS figure is rare. Wait a while. It will be available.
:frus: I am not saying this shortpack will be forever either, but my earlier point about Hasbro killing off lines before they can pump more product out there is still valid I think, the possibility exists that the line won't make it to wave 0018; besides, the majority of the market is about "now now now", not "patience and risk".

And as for getting every figure in a new case, look at the Bespin wave, even-packed with nothing old inside it. I dunno, it seems like Hasbro could simply adjust that case to how well a particular figure is doing in that wave once they get a picture of how its doing, but I digress. My point was short-packing hurts the "now" and risks the "later".

---

BTW, this namecalling stuff is getting old fast, it stops here and now or your post gets cut and you risk being suspended. If you cannot make your point without insults, your point isn't strong enough and you need to rethink your comments. This isn't a schoolyard fight, insulting others serves no real purpose in here. If you can't be civil, be gone.

JediTricks
06-02-2002, 11:21 PM
BTW, a friend just sent me this, I think it says a lot about this thread and Hasbro:


Why is it every movie, book and CD have an official release date and are never sold out - but toys have no release date and never enough quanity to meet demand, except for 1 day every 3 years when there is a date but not enough of each item?

I guess it would be better if they said "Episode 4 would be released on DVD in July" and you just had to go to the store every day and hope it was there, and when it shipped there was only 6 per store....

JangoFart
06-02-2002, 11:34 PM
Your diatribe was, at the VERY least, entertaining, Jedi. Your logic is just as entertaining.

J

quigon_jimm
06-03-2002, 12:05 AM
JediTricks, actually the "hoarding" that you speak of falls nowhere near breaking laws, especially racketeering. For crying out loud, there is nothing on the books concerning "scalpers". It is totally legal and is nothing more than an annoyance to collectors. I guarantee that there will never be a United States vs. Joe Star Wars Figure Scalper in the courts anytime soon. Everyone needs to calm down over this stuff. As far as Hasbro, I repeat: If you don't like it, don't buy, but until the day that you refuse to buy from Hasbro, your words are emptier than a keg at the Kennedy Compound.

Beast
06-03-2002, 12:19 AM
Originally posted by quigon_jimm
JediTricks, actually the "hoarding" that you speak of falls nowhere near breaking laws, especially racketeering. For crying out loud, there is nothing on the books concerning "scalpers". It is totally legal and is nothing more than an annoyance to collectors. I guarantee that there will never be a United States vs. Joe Star Wars Figure Scalper in the courts anytime soon. Everyone needs to calm down over this stuff. As far as Hasbro, I repeat: If you don't like it, don't buy, but until the day that you refuse to buy from Hasbro, your words are emptier than a keg at the Kennedy Compound.
Actually scalping is illegal my friend, if done in large numbers or for things with a higher perceived value. Ever heard of theater tickets or sporting event ticket scalpers. The toy scalping isn't a big enough problem to actually start going after it in court. Now, as JediTricks said, if someone were to actually start a scalper corporation and start clearing the stores of figures to scalp, you can bet your bottom dollar that they would see themselves in big trouble quickly. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

quigon_jimm
06-03-2002, 12:35 AM
JarJar, trust me, in no way would such a case ever hold any merit. Sporting tix are regulated by the states, thus making prices over a certain dollar amount. These laws do not and have never existed for toys. Hence, no law has ever been broken.

Vortex
06-03-2002, 03:07 AM
Just to toss another monkey wrench into this feude that seems to be brewing...

Sporting events/Plays/anything that is a one time ordeal - it is illegal to scalp. (except in Salt Lake...the olympic games tickets were scalped on the street legally...don't know why but they could do it) Its illegal since its a limited item that will never be seen again. The owners of the teams, schools, the stadium owners, set the prices and have legal leverage over the prices. The owners put the legal safeguards in make sure the fans can attend and scalpers don't inflate the prices so much that the average joe can't attend...and the team is selling directly to the public. Besides that most events are a privately owned event. It hurts the teams and the owners pocket book when the scalpers get involved. They don't get people in the seats to eat, drink, buy merchandise, etc if its scalped to the moon. I was lectured one night when I tried to sell my U of M Gopher Hockey tickets for 10 bucks more than the ticket price by an off duty cop...hey I needed gas money, book money and extra cash for beer...

Its a limited time event that will never be played again on that time or day. You can if you like buy from a scalper if you really like the team, and feel its worth the price to enjoy the entertainment. But just don't do it in front of a cop.

Toy "scalping" (I think we need a new word for this) is legal. Once you buy the goods, and leave the store its your property and you can do what you like with it, and if some one is willing to buy it, you have the choice and legal right to sell it as you see fit, since its your property. And yes, even take it back to the store if you can't unload it. Who hasn't went back to store after buying something only to find out next week its on sale and you want your money back...same thing. Its a buy back. To me its unethical, and wrong to return the figs if your selling, but you can do it. The stores just resell it or write it off as a loss on their quarterly taxes. Toys, autos, homes, trinkets, jewels, cd's, books all have a secondary market if you want to buy something or sell it since it is legally your property.

If some fool wants to buy every single figure on the pegs and try to sell it, that's his right and choice to do so. You don't have to buy it from them and no one will regulate it since its technically not a necessity for living, and there's other ways and means of getting it. Even if it was regulated, we still wouldn't have access to everything in certain areas especailly when the stores already have cases on pre-order without knowing what they are getting. Doesn't solve any of the problems.

If a large group does it, its still legal, unless they buy it from the retail store below their cost, or the items never get logged in or put on the shelves. If they control an entire city and have a monopoly on the stuff, then its illegal. Our sponsors prices are pretty even across the board and there's a lot of them...is this illegal? I'm sure the bulk don't deal directly through Hasbro and if they do, why are their prices so high, are they controlling and setting the secondary market? Is this fair? Doesn't matter, its their property and they can set the prices as they see fit. You have the choice to buy it or not...you don't have to buy it from them, you have other sources. Plus, a lot of toys and items are listed as collectables, meaning there's a secondary market for it, so how would you stop that? You can't.

I'm with Rogue II on this...if you think you're going to get rich off these toys, think again and seriously rethink why you collect. Its a toy people, these only mean something to us collectors at this point in time. Once the toy line has died, our lives change, or something forces us to ditch collecting or dumping our collection, none of this will matter. I know this will make my public enemy #1, but people relax, take a breath, calm down. Star Wars and its toy aren't the end all, be all, and its not life. These war of words are silly and why are we getting all worked up over a 3-3/4" piece of plastic, and availabilty? Collection #'s, errors and what have you won't matter to anyone but a small core of people a week, a year, a decade down the road...Heck odds are it won't matter much to you at some point too. Its just a toy, a hobby, an interest...why all the anger?

quigon_jimm
06-03-2002, 08:10 AM
Thank you for the sanity Tjovonovich. You couldn't be more right in your statement. And, I agree totally with both yourself and Roque, you really can't get rich off of these toys. It's good to see that at least a couple people in this place have their heads on straight and even if they don't agree with something, such as "scalping", they can have an even stance on it and say the truth and that truth being that it isn't illegal and that everyone needs to take a chill pill on this issue.

Turbowars
06-03-2002, 07:59 PM
Who cares if it is illegal or legal, scalping sucks and shouldn't be done. Straight, sideways what ever, we all know we arn't going to be rich. We just want to collect StarWars figures. So go and talk about your marketing issues somewhere else and with a group of people that care. We are here to discuss collecting. Bottom line is we can't do anything about scalping, so just try to beat these jerks in the Stores and grab what you can.

Vortex
06-03-2002, 11:43 PM
Turbowars, good to see you chime in again. We've gone round before on a similar issue, but can you cut some of us a little slack here.

I understand everyone is entitled to their opinion, but some people really need to act a little more mature, rational, and think before they start to type or throw ideas out there.

In this case the whole marketing bit, was to correct some wrong assumptions. Some people on this forum sound very uneducated when they just degrade others ideas, stand pat on theirs, ask people to leave, and refuse to see the other side of being a collector. When they just throw false facts around, and choose not to hear, and or accept what others have to say, is just down right childish and arrogent.

You want this forum to be about collecting only...well guess what...marketing, scalping, exclusives, are all part of collecting. Its all open to discussion, if you don't like it you can just as well leave yourself. Well I haven't been around that long on this thing, but to be honest this collecting forum is largely people crying about prices, can't get what they need, and people thinking they are better then the rest. And its getting grating fast. All the forums have the same flavor, same complaints, and people thinking Hasbro is sticking it to them, scalpers must die, gotta have this now, or poor me. Its a sad display about us collectors.

Don't go down these roads, don't become like some others on here, and cut us some slack, we all cut you slack.

Well that's my two bits, and on that note, I'm done with this link. Why debate with people who refuse to see the other side of the coin or be social about it.

jeffonthego
06-04-2002, 01:41 AM
Not sure if this the place to post, but this thread seems to have ventured into a debate on "scalping," of which I would like to paint a different picture about.

I buy most of my figures, not at big primary retailers (TRU, Wal-Mart, etc), but at collector stores who price the stuff above the retail suggested price. These retailers could be considered to be scalping I suppose.

However, this doesn't take into account what I get for that extra money. . .

I get a store in my own neighbourhood staying in business.

I get a store that is small, comfortable and offers a total collectors' environment (comic books, toys, posters, etc).

I get a store that feeds my sense of a hobby and not just a retailer moving product in and out.

I get a store, where the retailer actually recognizes me, is friendly, and above all knows what I am talking about when I ask about a specific figure by name.

I get a store that will let me know when something is available and saves me having to regularly make inconvenient trips to the big retailers.

I get a store that will hook me up with exclusives and second-hand figures.

Having said all this, it is unfortunate that a lot of the Hasbro product doesn't seem to have enough to go around. It is unfortunate that in trying to give themselves much needed business, these small retailers may be emptying the big stores of their limited stock of highly sought after products.

But if these small stores couldn't mark up the products they offer, regular margins would likely be insufficient to keep their low-sales retailing going.

And I would lose a comfortable, convenient and enjoyable outlet for satisfying my collecting. And to me that would be a shame . . .

pthfnder89
06-04-2002, 02:01 PM
You make some good points tjovonovich. There's a couple things though:


Originally posted by tjovonovich
Toy "scalping" (I think we need a new word for this) is legal


Actually scalping is exactly the correct word.

v. intr.
To engage in the reselling of something, such as tickets, at a price higher than the established value.
To buy and sell securities or commodities for small quick profits.



Originally posted by tjovonovich
If a large group does it, its still legal, unless they buy it from the retail store below their cost, or the items never get logged in or put on the shelves. If they control an entire city and have a monopoly on the stuff, then its illegal. Our sponsors prices are pretty even across the board and there's a lot of them...is this illegal? I'm sure the bulk don't deal directly through Hasbro and if they do, why are their prices so high, are they controlling and setting the secondary market? Is this fair? Doesn't matter, its their property and they can set the prices as they see fit.

I believe most of the sponsors do buy from Hasbro for the most part. Certainly any used or opened toys they sell don't come straight from the manufacturer but most of them order figures directly by the case.

The reason smaller online stores don't sell figures as cheaply as Wal-Mart or TRU is because Hasbro doesn't sell to them as cheaply. Wal-Mart and TRU buy THOUSANDS of cases for their stores. Many online retailers only buy a dozen or so. All manufacturers like Hasbro give big discounts to large volume retailers. :)

Vortex
06-04-2002, 03:01 PM
I just thought we needed to find a new forum word for "scalping" or another definition, but hey I'm just as glad to go with the dictionary version.

I did figure most dealt with Hasbro, and I do understand that some put orders in 1st or more orders, but I sometimes find it odd, that one distributor will have specific figures for weeks or months prior to another. The prices are pretty similar across the boards, but do honesly wonder if they aren't buying off of shelves also...its just a thought.

bigbarada
06-04-2002, 07:58 PM
Here's my view on the off-topic discussion that this thread has degenerated into:

Is scalping illegal? No, once someone buys the toy, it is theirs and they can do with it what they want.

Do scalpers clear the shelves of "cool" characters so collectors can't find them? Yes, but so do kids who rip those toys open and smash them under rocks.

Does scalping frustrate collectors into losing interest in the line? Definitely, I live in a town with one Wal-Mart, one K-Mart and lots of scalpers. The "thrill of the hunt" as it is called would cost me hundreds of dollars in gas every month since the nearest TRU is 84 miles away, the nearest Target is 60 miles away and the nearest FAO is over 800 miles away. The scalpers here work in Wal-Mart and K-Mart thus the new toys never see the light of day on the shelves. Besides I'm not interested in the "thrill of the hunt" I just want to collect the toys. There is a difference.

Has this frustrated me enough to give up collecting altogether? I'm VERRRRRY close. If there weren't Cloud City Chewie and Ephant Mon on the horizon I would have no problems walking away right now. As it stands I might be looking at having to pay $20-$30 for each of those figures, because of the scalper problem. For those two and those two alone, I don't mind paying that price. And I will if that is my only option. But my future interest in SW collecting is looking very bleak.

I don't pretend to know anything about marketing or business strategies. I just know that I am a collector who is about to become a former collector because of the way Hasbro is handling this Saga line. I know many people who feel the same way.

Oh well, look on the bright side, at least LOTR2 comes out in around six months.

JediTricks
06-05-2002, 02:09 AM
I am deleting the comments I just posted here because they were all in response to those "scalping" comments which really have nothing to do with the issue this thread is talking about.

sideswipe1984
06-05-2002, 11:55 AM
I find the whole fiasco ironic/insulting.

After the Episode I debacle, starting in 2000, Hasbro seemed to realize their mistakes with Episode I, and started to appreciate the collector market appropriately. POTJ corrected a lot (if not all) the problems that had plagued the line in the previous year or two. With the exception of some uneven distribution at times, the POTJ line proved to be a great collector-oriented line that brought a lot of fun back to SW collecting.

I honestly thought Hasbro's approach would reflect the knowlege they had gained during 1999-2001, but it seems as if they are back to their old tricks again :(

I almost long for non-movie years now, so that the child market will lose interest and the quality of the product (and distribtution) will improve.

Vortex
06-05-2002, 12:39 PM
Just courious...when the movie stops showing, when the demand by the kids dies off? Do your stores still stock the new stuff?

Around here the SW displays vanish. Last year the local WM didn't even have a single SW toy in the isle, and Target didn't even have room for anything on the shelves. I had to get some of the HTF items from comic shops and order cases from EE. Some of the scalpers had to buy from other scalpers in chicago or NY just to get new stuff to try and sell...

I'm just wondering if this is a common occurance in other areas?

Rogue II
06-05-2002, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by tjovonovich
Just courious...when the movie stops showing, when the demand by the kids dies off? Do your stores still stock the new stuff?

Around here the SW displays vanish. Last year the local WM didn't even have a single SW toy in the isle, and Target didn't even have room for anything on the shelves. I had to get some of the HTF items from comic shops and order cases from EE. Some of the scalpers had to buy from other scalpers in chicago or NY just to get new stuff to try and sell...

I'm just wondering if this is a common occurance in other areas?

Yes, stores do stock new stuff, it is just slower. Most of the figures I found were at K-Mart and Target. I got a couple from Walmart, TRU, and even 1 from KB Toys. Timing is very important. I could tell I missed out a few times The only wave I never saw in the stores was the BoShek wave, so I bought them from Toyzz.com.

By the way, I've already seen some of the Star Wars display starting to shrink.

sideswipe1984
06-05-2002, 01:21 PM
It is just such a double-edged sword:

One one hand, product is flooding the shelves right now, and there aren't many figures that are difficult to locate. However, the quality of these figures is , many times, questionable in many people's minds.

On the other hand, in non-movie years, Hasbro is forced to to turn out a higher-quality product in order to sell more units (something not neccesarily required during movie years, when the hype and movie basically sells them), however, the stock of these items is significantly less, and can lead to frustration in not locating them.

It is a catch 22, that can be very frustrating.

SirSteve
07-06-2002, 12:46 AM
Spoke to Hasbro today at Chicago and they brought up this news article. They stated those comments from the article were not from them.

Beast
07-06-2002, 12:55 AM
Originally posted by SirSteve
Spoke to Hasbro today at Chicago and they brought up this news article. They stated those comments from the article were not from them.
That's good to know Sir Steve. Atleast we know it was likely the person that wrote the article, probably stroking egos at Hasbro. Maybe he was up for a possible raise. Maybe it was Rick McCallum, he's always sticking his foot in his mouth. :p :D

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Rogue II
07-06-2002, 01:05 AM
Originally posted by SirSteve
Spoke to Hasbro today at Chicago and they brought up this news article. They stated those comments from the article were not from them.

So they don't mock us after all. That's good.

SirSteve,

Did you happen to chat with the Hasbro Reps about any Cantina figures beyond Greedo, Pondo Baba, and Hammerhead?

Nebulaz
07-06-2002, 01:18 AM
There was radio commercial here where it had star wars music and theme based , but they always said "warp speed" like star trek.

JediTricks
07-06-2002, 05:47 AM
I don't get how Hasbro can own the Insider and claim it's not them, but maybe one hand of the corporation doesn't know what the other's doing.

Turbowars
07-06-2002, 11:01 AM
BS, it wasn't them!

chrisc
07-30-2002, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by quigon_jimm
Turbowars, you truly are an ignorant clown! My point with the example I used of classic cars is that every hobby, I don't care if its Star Wars, Classic Cars, or Stamp Collecting, there will always be people who buy these items at low prices and then sell them to collectors to make a profit. You are just another one of these people who need to be instantly gratified with your hobby. And as I stated earlier, I'm not a fan of scalpers, but they do exist, what they do is legal, and as far as I am concerned I know that I am not perfect, unlike some people in these forums who think they can pass judgement on scalpers for their moral aptitude. My view is, let everyone do what they want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. Sure, because of a scalper I may have to go on Ebay and buy a figure for a few extra bucks, but if thats the biggest concern in my life, my priorities are all screwed up.

Jeffonthego, I agree with you. As I said, I have no problem with short packing. I would rather see Jar-Jars and Taun We's short packed, but its not my call. I'll leave that up to the marketing wizards (I use that term loosely) at Hasbro.

I'm a little late for this conversation but I support quigon-jimm all the way. I'll admit THAT I AM A SCALPER. It's a free country and if I feel like standing ar Wal-Mart and wait for figures to be put so I can get the best It's my right. I won't let so whiny cry-baby tell me I shouldn't get up in the morning to get the best figures.If you want the best figures find the stores that get them and get your lazy butt out of bed. Who do you think you people are the next Hitler of Star Wars???????????????????????????:mad:

FKA Broke Collector
07-30-2002, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by chrisc


I'm a little late for this conversation but I support quigon-jimm all the way. I'll admit THAT I AM A SCALPER. It's a free country and if I feel like standing ar Wal-Mart and wait for figures to be put so I can get the best It's my right. I won't let so whiny cry-baby tell me I shouldn't get up in the morning to get the best figures.If you want the best figures find the stores that get them and get your lazy butt out of bed. Who do you think you people are the next Hitler of Star Wars???????????????????????????:mad:

Go ahead and grab as much as you want. If the past has been any indication all of those multiple items you buy aren't really going to gain any value. Quite often toy collecting is just a flavor of the month type of collecting. People want this one figure... and then in three months supply catches up with demand and *poof* monetary value disappears (99% of the time). I collect because I like to collect, not because of value. So, again, I say buy all you want. It's your wallet that will suffer, not mine.

And as you are so quick to point out... this IS a free country, where people have a right to be angry if they see someone do something selfish and voice their opinions about it. Let it be. Do your thing, we'll do ours.

chrisc
07-30-2002, 01:31 PM
I don't grab up all I can find. I get the ones that are hard to find and trade them to people that are not lucky enough to get them where they live. Also I sell them on ebay some times I break even other times I make some money. Also if I see a fellow Star Wars collector in the toy lane and he is looking at my figures awful hard I ask if he would like one. I only keep two one in the box and one out the rest I sell trade or give away. So if you can't find a figure PM me because I can get alot of the hard to find exept Yoda, Count Dookoo, and Chewbacca

Turbowars
07-30-2002, 06:27 PM
Originally posted by chrisc
I don't grab up all I can find. I get the ones that are hard to find and trade them to people that are not lucky enough to get them where they live. Also I sell them on ebay some times I break even other times I make some money. Also if I see a fellow Star Wars collector in the toy lane and he is looking at my figures awful hard I ask if he would like one. I only keep two one in the box and one out the rest I sell trade or give away. So if you can't find a figure PM me because I can get alot of the hard to find exept Yoda, Count Dookoo, and Chewbacca That so nice of you to give a figure to a needy collector. How do you find it in your heart to due such a thing. Hey my TRU has plenty of Chewy's and Counts to go around. I'll let you have then for 9.99 each. More power to you man, I have better things to do. If a collector is stupid enough to buy from you so be it. I shop early as you do and see the trash that buys 10 Zams and returns them, because Target just got 30 of them. These toys will never be rare, but is someone is willing to pay 3x retail, OH Well. One thing that is funny is when I see 30 year olds running to the Hot Wheels and pushing kids a side for extra crappy 99 cent cars. I would love to see one of these morons slip! Then again they would sue. ;)

chrisc
08-01-2002, 08:35 AM
Why yall jumpin me like this?? I bet you have done thing same thing as scalpers do sometime in your life. You tellin me that you have never seen three or four hard to finds and bought them for a friend or diorama? If you haven't good for you. If you have your just as good as a scalper yourself. I've been to Wal-Mart and been told off by people for buyin up Clone Troopers for a army. It's my money if I want to buy up everything of a Wal-Mart truck I can. So quit cryin...............

FKA Broke Collector
08-01-2002, 11:43 AM
Not that I'm crying, because I'm not but...

Telling us to stop crying is just about like us telling you to stop scalping isn't it? Hmmmmmm. So, I'm going to guess you're going to keep scalping and we're going to keep "cryin'".

chrisc
08-01-2002, 04:23 PM
[EDITED]

Mod Note: We don't exactly like personal attacks on other forumites so your comments have been edited
DA

billfremore
08-01-2002, 04:38 PM
Play nice kids...

chrisc
08-01-2002, 06:19 PM
Yes daddy....I didn't try to insult them (not). Hey did you ever find that figure you was going to trade me for that R4-M9??????????? I ain't heard from you in what two month's.:p :crazed:

Turbowars
08-01-2002, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by chrisc
[EDITED]

Mod Note: We don't exactly like personal attacks on other forumites so your comments have been edited
DA You know, Its funny when someone shows how ignorant they are. I said nothing to offend this guy. :crazed: [EDITED]

FKA Broke Collector
08-03-2002, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by chrisc
[EDITED]

Mod Note: We don't exactly like personal attacks on other forumites so your comments have been edited
DA

And look who lashes out with a personal attack. Never once did I insult you directly.

And I never insulted you indirectly, I just expressed my opinions about scalping.

chrisc
08-04-2002, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by turbowars
You know, Its funny when someone shows how ignorant they are. I said nothing to offend this guy. :crazed: [EDITED]

No you didn't say nothing to offend just me but several people. I have recieved several emails of what kind of person you really are . Well off to Basic Training. GO ARMY!!! HOOAH!!!!:cool:

FKA Broke Collector
08-04-2002, 06:58 PM
I think it's time to use that 'ole IGNORE trick Jedi Tricks just reminded us about.

chrisc
08-04-2002, 07:01 PM
Thank You because I have already done it!!!!!!!!!

chrisc
08-04-2002, 07:03 PM
It's not that I had problems with you and that post about getting on peoples nerves was directed at Turbo Wars and i felt that yall were trying to play tag team argument.

Forhekset
08-04-2002, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by FKA Broke Collector
I think it's time to use that 'ole IGNORE trick Jedi Tricks just reminded us about.

It's amazing how much more enjoyable browsing this forum can be after adding some names to the good ol' Ignore List. That sentiment isn't directed towards anyone in particular, mind you, I'm just saying....the Ignore List is a Good Thing™.

The only way I could improve it would be to make it so that you don't even see a person's username show up in a thread, let alone any posts he or she has made. That way you could practically forget that someone even exists.

chrisc
08-05-2002, 10:10 AM
Yes I have found out how enjoyable it really is.