New Star Wars Movies for the Purists Fans - FUNNY THREAD

[Tycho]

OK, you all know the type of fan I'm talking about: they live in 1980 and think the last good Star Wars movie was The Empire Strikes Back. They think that no new movie will ever recapture the magic they got out of Star Wars way back then (without giving a thought to the fact that they were an easily impressed child back then, who lived in a world before blockbuster movies).

Well, whatever the case may be, they rant and complain that George Lucas has lost his touch. They won't go see the new movies or collect the prequel action figures, and they think that it was OK for Star Wars to push the film industry's envelope back then, but now C,G, and I are letters that Sesaeme Street should boycott.

Well, have I got good news for them! Episode 3 has been completely re-written just to satisfy these fans! Here take a look at this secretly stolen plot outline taken out of George Lucas' garbage can and finally cleaned off of rotting fruit left on it since 1980!


STAR WARS EPISODE 3: The Fans' Hope


It is a period of civil war and Padme Skywalker has already had some baby as the movie opens. She is being pursued by the Separatists' sinister agents when her ship gets captured. So she stuffs her baby inside R2D2 and launches him in an escape pod.

Count Dooku has Padme taken away and carbon frozen. He gives her frozen form to Boba Fett to take to Nute Gunray for the price on her head.

Meanwhile, Anakin's Jedi Starfighter has crashed on a swampy moon of Coruscant where an old guy in a Dark Robe lives kind of like a hermit and starts to instruct him with a Sith Holocron. Anakin levitates his Jedi Starfighter and learns to use the Force to "Sith-choke" local swamp vermin.

R2 finds Threepio to take him to Obi-Wan Kenobi because he needs someone who can translate that "he's not a nanny droid and he doesn't do diapers." R2 burps, hiccups, and farts a lot in this movie.

Meanwhile, Anakin learns Padme has been captured and rushes to confront Nute Gunray and unfreeze her.....

At the same time Obi-Wan and several important Jedi Leaders are analyzing the technical schematics between Huggies and Pampers and trying to discover the advantages. For some yet unexplained reason, after R2 launches the first baby out of one of his dome portals, it STILL sounds like the little droid is crying...

Need I go on?

Purists....:rolleyes:

[Eternal Padawan]

Purists won't like R2 hiccuping, burping, or especially farting.

And Han Solo definitely has to be in the movie somewhere...

[Jonna]

Wow, that's great! But I have the funny feeling that I have heard this somewhere before.....

Now what is wrong with the 80's? Sure alot better than the triviality and fickleness of the 90's and the moral and spiritual disintegration of the 00's. Ah, crap! Now I'm getting depressed. Time to up the medication.

[bigbarada]

Nice one, Tycho!:D I've also noticed that some people can't stand GL pushing the industry forward again. He stated very clearly after ROTJ that he wouldn't be back until technology advanced enough to realize his vision fully. Now he is realizing that vision and people are bashing him for it. I'm pretty sure that the backlash would be much worse if he decided to boycott CG for his films. Only that backlash would take the form of no ticket sales from most of the public. It seems that no matter what GL does, some people just will not be happy. So the best tactic is to just ignore the whiners and purists and enjoy the movie.

Besides all the complaints we hear about the prequels were levelled at the OT when it was new and fresh. In fact many "classic" movie fans (40s, 50s and 60s movies) credit George Lucas and Steven Speilberg with destroying the industry with movies like Jaws and Star Wars.:rolleyes: They didn't destroy it, just reinvented it.

[Mandalorian Candidat]

Originally posted by Eternal Padawan
Purists won't like R2 hiccuping, burping, or especially farting.


Did you know that if a droid were to hiccup, burp, and fart at the same time he'd explode? :D

[Jonna]

That's exactly what happened to the red R2 unit in ANH.

[LTBasker]

Tycho I think you sniffed your mouse droid a little too closely today. ;)

I think the only thing that Lucas shouldn't do is make the Stormtroopers be clones - We've seen them practically as individual with different heights and voices, and that's how it's grown to be, no need to have them be clones.

[JediTricks]

AHAHAHAHAHA. Oh wait, that wasn't funny in the least, in fact, it seemed to be adding intolerance-fuel to this growing negative stereotype that has been applied to a group of SW fans. Perhaps your selfish shortsightedness has kept you from seeing whether those individuals actually have individual beliefs based on their own opinions that match their individuality rather than the mindless nostalgia drones you accuse them of being.

[QLD]

Hmm....I don't get it.

Some fans also look at EU the way purists look at the movies. I find that silly too. Personally, if you like it, great, if not, great. Just don't waste mine, and everyone else time complaining about it to people who do like it.

[JediTricks]

Yeah, interesting point QLD since Tycho is one of the biggest EU fans I know, and I doubt he'd enjoy being insulted for that, or laugh with someone spitting on his opinions about TOTJ.

[Tycho]

I can take it. Afterall, this thread is just a joke.

But all of the sudden the "E4/E5 Limiteds" seem to have started to take offense!

If you want this discussion to turn serious, how can you be satisfied with one NEW Star Wars movie? Or is it impossible?

[JediTricks]

Is that an argument and/or a discussion point Tycho? Because if so, please flesh it out more - I'm not following what you're getting at there.

--

I'm just sick of seeing so many barbs and attacks at those who don't agree with others here on the forums which have been really culminating in the last week: to borrow from those stereotypes to describe the problems, there's been SO MUCH of the anger and stereotyping between the "hasbro cheerleaders" and the "hasbro haters", and the "lucas is god" and "the classics rule" groups. The forums are turning all cliquish, so many are putting others into categories and then accusing them of "ruining Star Wars" or other such nonsense; I'm sick of it - so when I log in today and see 6 different threads in MISC that have all started in the past 24 hours that are furthering bigotry and deepening chasms between the 2 groups, I get fed up with all of it. (And it doesn't help that one of these new threads is started by an SSG staffer.)

[JediTricks]

Tycho, let me clarify, I'm not trying to hold you - or any mod - to a higher standard about this, it was just extra bad timing (as I mentioned in the post above).

[Tycho]

That's OK JT. But it IS a joke. Geeze, I could have talked about professional sports teams using Indian mascots if I wanted to spark a debate.

Instead I'd hoped everyone would take this with a grain of salt and a few giggles - maybe write their own version of a prequel to be more like the Original Trilogy movie they like the most.

But that is not going to be the case.

I can see now that on the next US Census they'll have to put

a) Catholic
b) Muslem
c) Jewish
d) Christian
e) Buddhist
f) Jedi - Classic Purist
g) Jedi - Lucas Reformationist


...just so they don't offend anybody.

I also recommend a ban on certain costumes at conventions.

I think we can allow Darth Vader. He will be in both trilogies.

However, I believe Princess Leia costumes will offend. Those wishing to dress like Chewbacca or Darth Maul will equally be deemed politically inappropriate.

Now there's nothing wrong with going as a Tusken or a Jawa, but (and I'm sorry ladies), the female Tusken might be taken as offensive to some parties. Likewise, children should be taught at an early age to dress as Jawas, because both Gungans and Ewoks could be taken as offensive between these widely differing fan sects that are evolving.

Now Niemoidian will also not be a politically correct term, but those Lucas Reformationists that insist on dressing in this manner should tone down their outerwear and try to refer to themselves as Duro.

Now I'm going to try and call Bill Maher on this. I'm sure he'll have a lot more insight to offer.

[Beast]

And don't forget Tycho, and even worse offense then dressing as a gungan. If you dress up as Jar Jar Binks you will be stoned to death. :D :p

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

[LTBasker]

You forgot some religions in there. :D

I'm not a total OT purist, I just hope Lucas doesn't decide to use digital equipment just because he has it to "enhance" the OT to make it fit the prequels when it should be the prequels being made to fit the OT, which could be done in E3...

[Dar' Argol]

I have to agree with JT here a bit. I have noticed a definite wedge being . . . . . . . . uh . . . . . . . . . . . wedged:rolleyes: into our little SW community here. And I don't even know when it started! I thought we are here for uh . . . . . . . Star Trek:eek:, no no no no . . . . . . . . . . uh, Thumb Wars:eek:, no no no . . . . . . . . . . . . . . OH YEAH, STAR WARS! Would this then not incorperate EVERYTHING SW??? I really do not understand the problem with EU(I love it), I do not see the problem with SE OT or OT, or greedo shooting first, or Han shooting first. Why?? Because this is GL's creation. And with every creator, he has the right to change things. It may not seem "right" to us, but you know what, IT DOESN'T MATTER! We did not create it, we cannot change it, we cannot stop it. So deal with it and get back to the reason you got into SW. Beacuse you LOVE it!

But in the same respect, I can spot one of Tycho's giggle threads anywhere!! So I got a real kick out of this Tycho!! As good as your "Return of the Resculpts" thread!! Got a "Attack of the Resculpts" in the works???

On an off shoot, a few friends of mine(YES, I have friends) were talking about the really bad SW stuff, like the Holiday special. I brought up about a made for TV movie or something and I cannot even be really sure if it was SW or not.

What I remember was the Ewoks were in it. It was live action. It had a girl and boy in it. The boy wore a blue jumpsuit I think and had a headband on and blonde curly hair. I remember nothing about the girl, but there was a girl. And they were either hiding from someone on Endor?? or they crash landed and their parents died. It is really schetchy, and I'm not even real sure its real. A very few ppl I have talked to avout this remember something along those lines. JarJar, O wealth and fountain of knowledge, any clue??? Anyone??

[Beast]

Yes indeed Dar' Argol. That is one of the two Star Wars Ewok TV movies. They came out in 1984, and 1985. The TV version of the first one was originally titled: "The Ewok Adventure", though the theatrical edition that was relesed in the UK was titled: "Ewoks: Caravan of Courage." The second one's title is: "Ewoks: The Battle for Endor." They were avaliable on VHS a few years ago, but I haven't seen them since. Check older video stores for copies of them. :)

http://us.imdb.com/Title?0087225
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0089110

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

[RooJay]

Dar'Argol is right. It was the girl that had curly blonde hair and a headband though! The boy was really goofy looking and had straight brown hair in a funky looking pageboy style!

[RooJay]

Thank you Tycho! I'm lovin' this thread!:D

[Dar' Argol]

Originally posted by JarJarBinks
Yes indeed Dar' Argol. That is one of the two Star Wars Ewok TV movies. They came out in 1984, and 1985. The TV version of the first one was originally titled: "The Ewok Adventure", though the theatrical edition that was relesed in the UK was titled: "Ewoks: Caravan of Courage." The second one's title is: "Ewoks: The Battle for Endor." They were avaliable on VHS a few years ago, but I haven't seen them since. Check older video stores for copies of them. :)

http://us.imdb.com/Title?0087225
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0089110

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

JarJar you are the Joscasta Nu of SSG!!!!!! If JarJAr don't know it, it doesn't exist!!! If I could I would come over and kiss you right between those Gungan eyes!!!!! Well . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . maybe a pat on the back:crazed:. Thanx JarJar, now I know I'm not crazy . . . . . . . . ok, I am crazy, but not about that!!!

[Beast]

Originally posted by Dar' Argol
JarJar you are the Joscasta Nu of SSG!!!!!! If JarJAr don't know it, it doesn't exist!!! If I could I would come over and kiss you right between those Gungan eyes!!!!! Well . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . maybe a pat on the back:crazed:. Thanx JarJar, now I know I'm not crazy . . . . . . . . ok, I am crazy, but not about that!!!
Awww, shucks Dar' Argol. Glad to be of service to you and anyone here in the forums. I have dedicated my spare time to being here and helping whenever I possibly can. Whether with a answer to a question, or directing them to where they can find the answer they seek. I'm just glad my overabundant knowledge of Star Wars can be put to use some way. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

[Tycho]

Dar' Argol: I'm glad you thought it was funny. I understand JediTricks frustration with the schism between fans all the same, but I was just poking fun at that.

Sometimes jokes are considered inappropriate, like racists jokes. My response with the religion categories was making fun of even these, because Star Wars fans have gotten so zealous that they actually have put Jedi down for their religion - I know this happened in the UK as well. But now there is a schism in The Church of Yoda and we need to recite a Holy Psalm to remind us all of when we lack humility before our Vater.

"So Let Us Pray...."

"There is only One Lord - Lord Vader ; and Lucas was his Prophet." - LUKE: E5: s10.

"Remember, he gave his only Begotten Son's right hand up to die for us, so that we do not have to live in sin with our sisters."

"We bless your gift as Sacred, 'Oh Leather-wearing-Father, in the name of The Lord, His Son, and The Blue Plastic Ghost."


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now that we're all done with that: Yes there will be a 'movie script' starring all your favorite Resculpts that will parody Episode 2. But in my fancying over-redundant titles, it will be called "The SCRIPT to Episode Two: Resculpts of the Clones????" just because I think it's funny to have an action figure line with clones in it and not acknowledge that this is exactly what we typically think of when we view their latest Qui-Gon figure. Why isn't he also called a Clone Trooper?

Anyway, the movie is sort of on hold until I finish Episode 6: Return of the Resculpts.

See in my twisted version of things, Episode 2 is actually the SEQUEL to Episode 6. I also might want to dig up "The Resculpt Menace," "A New Resculpt," and "The Resculpts Strike Back" because new readers might be coming in to these from behind, unaware that the Jedi and the Sith are all bad guys in my "Hasbro Version" and not understand the larger story. I mean, maybe "who cares?" It's not like these aren't funny by themselves even if you don't realize the history behind these threads. But I'm really glad you liked them. They were a combined effort of not just me, but Bel Cam Jos, El Chuxter, Mandalorian Candidate to some degree, and others. Which is also one more reason why we might wait until more people have the official script - or even the DVD to Clones (in November) - because E6 needs to get done, and people need to know the dialogue to Clones, line for line. We follow the actual REAL script to write the movie, but because our script is intended for Hasbro's figures to reenact, there leads to plenty of humor, such as the revelation that Princess Leia is really a man, Prince Lawrence, (Luke's brother) and that explains 'her or its' first action figure.

So in the meanwhile, stay tuned to Episode 6: Return of the Resculpts as Han has not found out about his love interest just yet - and it should be quite a shocker! :eek:

[stillakid]

Originally posted by LTBasker
You forgot some religions in there. :D

I'm not a total OT purist, I just hope Lucas doesn't decide to use digital equipment just because he has it to "enhance" the OT to make it fit the prequels when it should be the prequels being made to fit the OT, which could be done in E3...


Here here!

Mea thinkin that the Boss Lucas hasa forgotten heasa lesson thata the technology isa there to helpa tell a story and not just to show offa for the superbombad Playmate. :D

[JediTricks]

Originally posted by Tycho
I understand JediTricks frustration with the schism between fans all the same, but I was just poking fun at that.

Sometimes jokes are considered inappropriate, like racists jokes. My response with the religion categories was making fun of even these...Didn't you and I have a discussion a year and a half ago about how you felt "Jew jokes" were too often without balance and appropriate timing? I think right now - when things seem the most strained they've been in the forums since I became a reporter 3 years ago - isn't the right time to poke fun at a problem that, in my eyes, seems to be growing rapidly out of control here. As I told SirSteve this evening, I do not see any way to stem this problem which is growing more rapid and unpleasant. If you hadn't seen, I began yelling about such things a week ago in the Saga forums and quite a few people definitely replied that they felt the same way... on both sides of these issues.

[2-1B]

Whew, am I glad I haven't browsed the Saga forums too much lately! I'll have to head in there and see what I missed. :evil:

Is there really a growing schism? I haven't really noticed it, I mean sure after being here for awhile I understand where a lot of the regulars are coming from, and if I know he or she is really "pro" or "anti" prequels / ROTJ / EU / etc. it helps to know the person's perspective. But I haven't noticed any great schisms, well sometimes I perceive some arrogance but in the words of Undercover Brother, "It ain't no thang!" :D

I don't know that I'd fit any "clique", since I love (my favorite) AOTC, really like TPM, love ROTJ, love ESB, really really like ANH, dislike EU in general, dislike "everyone and their mothers are clones" theories, dislike "stormtroopers aren't clones" theories, my favorite SW actors are Hayden, Ewan, Natalie, Oz, Harrison, and Billy Dee, I love R2-D2 and hate C-3PO, I think Hasbro is silly for the most part, yet buy more of their product than I should . . . yeah I'd say I'm pretty unique! :happy:

I'm here for the fun of this hobby, sure it's fun to lock horns with a few of ya goons! :)

Okay, back to the jokin' around . . . :D

[stillakid]

There is a perceived schism that is merely an illusion. One vocal camp thinks that anyone with a complaint about anything in the prequels is some kind of "OT Lover" "Prequel Hater" "OT Purist" or other such thing. Those of "us" who have some problems with the prequels are just lovers of great storytelling, which the OT was an example of, and the Prequels are not shaping up to be.

It's not about nostaligia, loss of "childlike innocence," an unfair "adult" outlook on "kids movies" or any other silly reasons like that as the "prequel "lovers" would have you believe. Age old tactic: if you don't like the message, attack the messenger. The problems exist, some of us bring them up. Others don't want to hear it, so "they" :rolleyes: invent all kinds of reasons as to why "we" :rolleyes: must be so "unnecessarily" critical (we're too old now, these are kid's movies, we are overly nostalgic, etc.)

Hey, I wanted to really really really love the next installments of the saga, just like the rest of the world. But just like the majority of movie-goers out there, I was disappointed by a bad movie (TPM) and am mildly entertained by AOTC, although I'm fairly blase about it overall, just like most of the other "non-fans" that I've talked to. It's okay, much better than Ep I, but still not a really great movie as movies go.

The production design is still great, the toys are cool, it's still a great "universe" to escape to, but the storytelling is suffering for any one of a number of reasons that is open to debate. But it isn't a cut and dried division of "we" love the OT and "hate" the prequels, or the other way around. There is plenty to love and hate in all 5 films so far. None is perfect and none are entirely horrible. All have some redeeming quality, some more than others :rolleyes:, but that's what "discussing" is for. If we all loved every detail about the saga, then I'd start questioning our collective sanity. ;)

[Jonna]

What is with this whole purist thing!?! I personally grew up with the first three movies and maybe because of that like them better than the new two. That is not to say that I do not like the new two movies because I do, but I still like the old ones better. Does that make me a purist in some sort of negative sense? I really don't care what others think of it or me because I do what I do because I am who I am. This whole thing about purists is ridiculous: both those who buy into it and those that call names. Every one should just learn to tend their own garden and stop throwing dirt over the fence.

"Complain, Complain,B*t*h and Moan just because you do a little bit of house work."--Rick from the Young ones:crazed:

[billfremore]

I have no gripes with people expressing their opinons on any of the Star Wars movies.

Most of my complaints stem from people's complaints being just plain silly or they don't explain why, they just don't like it.
e.g. "The CGI looks too fake" (that's because it is fake)

I suppose I have too much faith in Lucas' grand design but I enjoy allowing myself that childish naiveté. I like having one thing in my life to not be cynical about.

[2-1B]

Originally posted by stillakid
It's not about nostaligia, loss of "childlike innocence," an unfair "adult" outlook on "kids movies" or any other silly reasons like that as the "prequel "lovers" would have you believe. Age old tactic: if you don't like the message, attack the messenger. The problems exist, some of us bring them up. Others don't want to hear it, so "they" :rolleyes: invent all kinds of reasons as to why "we" :rolleyes: must be so "unnecessarily" critical (we're too old now, these are kid's movies, we are overly nostalgic, etc.)


Curious, I guess I have seen some examples of this and agree that it's silly to jump to labels . . . but there are plenty of folks (namely myself :D - let's limit this to myself because I don't want to speak for anyone else ) who simply don't find (some of)those problems. Personally it's not a matter of me not wanting to hear (some of) them, it's just that I don't think they are problems. "Problems" with the prequels and classics don't exist as matters of fact, fans just perceive issues in different ways. That's the point of discussing. :)

[stillakid]

Originally posted by Caesar


Curious, I guess I have seen some examples of this and agree that it's silly to jump to labels . . . but there are plenty of folks (namely myself :D - let's limit this to myself because I don't want to speak for anyone else ) who simply don't find (some of)those problems. Personally it's not a matter of me not wanting to hear (some of) them, it's just that I don't think they are problems. "Problems" with the prequels and classics don't exist as matters of fact, fans just perceive issues in different ways. That's the point of discussing. :)

Hmm. I'll ride with you on that train for awhile :) , but let's take the example of Anakin in Ep III. Being that it hasn't happened yet, it's open to speculatory discussion and is the safest path at this time. ;)

Hypothetically, if Lucas includes a shot or entire sequences in Ep III which clearly link Anakin Skywalker's identity to Darth Vader, would the question regarding the Prequel's "ruining the surprise of the OT" be a "fact" or a matter of "perception?" (assuming that the saga was intended to be viewed by future generations in episode order rather than production order as our generation has done.)

You see, while there are gray areas open to discussion (ie, Greedo fires first), I do believe that there are absolutes (ie, the parade sequence in TPM was "borrowed" from Dinotopia). The trick is deciphering which is which. This is where those human qualities of prejudice and desire come into the picture. If a person doesn't want to "taint" his/her view or enjoyment of something, then those absolute "problems" can be ignored or rationalized away.

Are the Matte lines on the Rancor in ROTJ good or bad? Does a CG character look as realistic as an actual puppet? Do Midichlorians contradict any of the story elements that preceded their invention? Those are the kinds of questions that pop up here and each individual draws their own line in the sand on how much they will choose to be bothered by those issues. If the question arises in anyone's mind, then by definition, it is a "problem" because it either wasn't made clear in the film or it "bothers" someone for some reason. Simple dismissal of it doesn't "undo" it from being a problem. The variety of "perceptions" and subsequent discussion is meant to lead to a better understanding of the saga for everyone. It's just too bad that some choose to use disagreement as a tool for division instead of one for greater appreciation.

[Beast]

Oh Dar'Argol, you can discuss the Ewok TV movies here with fellow fans at SSG in the following thread. TEEK! :D

http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9767

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

[stillakid]

Originally posted by JarJarBinks
Oh Dar'Argol, you can discuss the Ewok movies here at SSG in the following thread. TEEK! :D

http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9767

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

I think that I saw at least one of them at my local Hollywood Video the last time I was there. Caravan, I think it was, so they are out there.

[JediTricks]

Caesar, you know, I'm not surprised you don't see the "schism problem" because you're one of the coolest guys I know on this board and I never see anything but total individuality and respect from you. Sometimes I'll find myself totally disagreeing with you on an issue and yet I know that when I come back, if your reply it will be good stuff because no matter how much you don't agree with someone, you take what is actually said as seriously as the situation merits and always at face value rather than an alternate perception based on a stereotype.

Anyway, I'm gonna try to let this drop, I now have a couple of family problems that are gonna distract my attention and I don't think I'll be capable of combating the problem I see growing AND the emotional drain of family medical emergencies, so let me just close by saying to everybody...

Please do the right thing by your fellow SW fans even if you don't see eye-to-eye with them on an issue; try to take what someone else is saying as an individual's opinion rather than a blanket statement for a perceived 'opposition'. We're all Star Wars fans here, and just as much as you wouldn't like being pigeon-holed into a stereotyped group, the other person will feel the same way.

[QLD]

I thought I was one of the coolest, and showed a lot of individuality and respect.....*sniff*

[stillakid]

Originally posted by Quite-Long Dong
I thought I was one of the coolest, and showed a lot of individuality and respect.....*sniff*

You're ALL the coolest!:cool: Except for that suchakid guy or whatever his name is. what a pain in the butt.;)

[bigbarada]

-You see, while there are gray areas open to discussion (ie, Greedo fires first),
I agree there, as time goes on I am less and less oppossed to the idea of Greedo firing first.

-I do believe that there are absolutes (ie, the parade sequence in TPM was "borrowed" from Dinotopia).
This is a new one. Never read Dinotopia so I'm not really worried about it.

-Are the Matte lines on the Rancor in ROTJ good or bad?
Bad, very bad.

-Does a CG character look as realistic as an actual puppet?
Both look fake, CG just looks better.

-Do Midichlorians contradict any of the story elements that preceded their invention?
Not at all. They never bothered me in the least, I was fine with them when they were first metioned and I am still fine with them. Nothing anyone has told me has led me to believe that I am wrong for not being bothered by them.

-If the question arises in anyone's mind, then by definition, it is a "problem" because it either wasn't made clear in the film or it "bothers" someone for some reason. Simple dismissal of it doesn't "undo" it from being a problem.
I'm not answerable for someone across the globe, I decide what is a problem and what isn't for me. "Issues" with CG Yoda, Midichlorians, Dinotopia rip-offs, etc. have never entered my mind until I came to these forums. Thus since the questions never arose in my mind then, by your definition, they are not problems. Right? Or am I "rationalizing" again?:rolleyes:

-The variety of "perceptions" and subsequent discussion is meant to lead to a better understanding of the saga for everyone.
How noble of you.:rolleyes: I understand them just fine, thanks.

-It's just too bad that some choose to use disagreement as a tool for division instead of one for greater appreciation.
Better appreciation on whose terms? Let me get this straight, you're saying that the people who disagree with you are responsible for causing this rift and if we would all just come to our senses and accept your logic then we'd all be unified by a better understanding of the movies? Um, sorry count me out. If being a "true" fan means that I have to allow someone else to tell me what I should and shouldn't like in a movie based on their "expertise" then I guess I will never be a true SW fan.

[2-1B]

Thanks JT :), don't get me wrong, I'm involved in plenty of debates (the lengthiest ones often involve stillakid). But that's been the case for so long that it's pretty normal to me. :D
Like I said, I don't follow the Saga forums too much and I'm a routine debater . . . but your post conveyed some strong urgencies and in that sense I'm surprised that there are so many "recent" issues of schism. :) I'll look around some more . . .

Good luck to you and your family, I think I can speak for everyone here that we wish you and your loved ones the best. :(

And now on to you, stillakid ;)

Hmm. I'll ride with you on that train for awhile,

CHOO CHOO !

but let's take the example of Anakin in Ep III. Being that it hasn't happened yet, it's open to speculatory discussion and is the safest path at this time.

Splendid suggestion!

Hypothetically, if Lucas includes a shot or entire sequences in Ep III which clearly link Anakin Skywalker's identity to Darth Vader, would the question regarding the Prequel's "ruining the surprise of the OT" be a "fact" or a matter of "perception?" (assuming that the saga was intended to be viewed by future generations in episode order rather than production order as our generation has done.)

Without question, it would indeed be a matter of fact that the surprises would be ruined that way. :)

But what's at issue in those discussions (that I've joined) is, "should Lucas do it that way?" THAT is not a matter of fact. I understand why many people don't want to see Hayden running around with a Vader helmet, but I don't think we can say as a matter of fact that the story should not be shown that way.

Personally I'm fine with it since he filmed the movies in the order he did, and now that the surprises have been experienced by a few generations he's going back to polish off the history.

Another question to ponder that I haven't brought up before, 'Has it ever been Lucas' intention for the secrets to be kept, even though he advocates a 1-6 viewing?' I never got that impression from him. Heck, even the Cheerios box I was reading last night said that the prequels tell the story of how Anakin becomes Darth Vader. That's what George has been saying for awhile now, and I honestly don't know how he can achieve his goal of showing how Anakin becomes Darth Vader if he leaves the fate of Anakin Skywalker in Episode III as a presumed death.

You see, while there are gray areas open to discussion (ie, Greedo fires first), I do believe that there are absolutes (ie, the parade sequence in TPM was "borrowed" from Dinotopia). The trick is deciphering which is which. This is where those human qualities of prejudice and desire come into the picture. If a person doesn't want to "taint" his/her view or enjoyment of something, then those absolute "problems" can be ignored or rationalized away.

Yes, that's quite possible. Some might and probably do rationalize. But it's not the only possibility - I can accept midichlorians without it being a rationalization on my part, no matter how foolish and incontinuous another person perceives them to be . . . more on that in a moment.

Are the Matte lines on the Rancor in ROTJ good or bad?
Does a CG character look as realistic as an actual puppet?

Matters of opinion. Factually, the matte lines are there, but they bother some people more than others. CG vs. puppets/masks - there's a fun debate I've seen a lot of! :D I really dig Yoda in AOTC, the shots that really smack of CGI to me are the ones of him "sitting" in his Council chair, he really looks painted in to me. But I think the CGI Yoda expressions are wayyyyy better than TPM puppet Yoda, but not as good as ESB/ROTJ puppet Yoda.

Do Midichlorians contradict any of the story elements that preceded their invention?

Depends on whom you ask! :D
To Lucas, nope, they don't contradict, to stillakid, yes they do contradict . . . to Caesar, they're kinda funny but not a contradiction.
I watched the commentary on TPM recently, and Lucas' comments on the midichlorians do hint at revisionism to me . . . but fundamentally I don't think he's contradicted himself. He does conveniently wax about how they were "always" intended and are hinted at in ANH but he never had time to fully explore the issues of the origin of the Force. :rolleyes:
Yet, I do see some compelling evidence in the OT that the Force is hereditary and biologically influenced. Ben said that the Emperor knew (as Ben did) if Anakin had any children they would be a threat. Why would they be an automatic threat unless Anakin's potential had been passed on to them? - heredity.
Luke tells Leia "the Force is strong in my family" - heredity.
Vader says about Luke, "the Force is strong with this one" - I see the argument that Luke was now open to the ways of the Force, so that's how he could have triggered Vader's interest. But I always think of it with the knowledge that Vader is Luke's father, and that's where he gets his potential - heredity.
By itself, ANH does convey the idea that "Anyone" can access the Force, but the rest of the OT trilogy opens that up and suggests heredity in the case of the Skywalkers. It's not a matter of the "haves vs. the have nots", rather it's a matter of the "haves vs. the have mores". Everyone including Han, Chewie, Lando, Luke, have midichlorians . . . only Luke has more and is naturally more gifted.
Whew, that being said I can tell you that my personal preference would have been to leave Ani's Force potential in TPM as just being really obvious to Qui-Gon and leave it at that . . . but I can see how the midichlorians work in the storyline and I honestly don't think I am "rationalizing" it away. Remember, I haven't been able to rationalize away Padme saying "get to that hangar!" :D

Those are the kinds of questions that pop up here and each individual draws their own line in the sand on how much they will choose to be bothered by those issues.

True to an extent, I don't let Padme's hangar knowledge bother me, but there are plenty of other things that are problems to people that I honestly don't see as problems. And how! I'm sure there will be more as we follow the prequel train. :D

If the question arises in anyone's mind, then by definition, it is a "problem" because it either wasn't made clear in the film or it "bothers" someone for some reason. Simple dismissal of it doesn't "undo" it from being a problem. The variety of "perceptions" and subsequent discussion is meant to lead to a better understanding of the saga for everyone. It's just too bad that some choose to use disagreement as a tool for division instead of one for greater appreciation.

Thanks for that, I may not have fully understood where you've been coming from with the "problems". I kinda had the impression that sometimes people illustrate a problem that they have as a matter of fact and if I don't see it as a problem then I am automatically rationalizing it away. But your definition clears some of my confusion. As long as I get the opportunity to explain why I see things the way I do, I'll be fine. :)


Tycho, I was thinking about your parody of ANH/ESB vs. the rest of the films, and I must admit the thought came across my mind when reading some of the more scathing reviews by AOTC critics (not by people on this site, I mean in the media) - Seriously, if someone (a critic for example) praises ANH and ESB while trashing ROTJ, TPM, and AOTC, I have to be extremely suspicious of his or her perspective in reviewing Episode III. I'm not talking about George and his company line that "the films have always gotten bad reviews" . . . I mean, if you dislike the last 60% of the Star Wars saga, what more could you possibly hope for from the films? :confused: Just a general thought, not meant toward any "purists" or "prequelists" on this site, just something I've contemplated while reading reviews and talking with casual movie-going co-workers and such . . . :crazed:

[Hasbro'sBountyHunter]

:pLMAO! R2 farting...

[bigbarada]

Eternal Padawan once asked, "why sacrifice Ep3's storyline just to preserve a surprise that will only work once?" The ESB revelation will only work once, he is right about that. So why compromise the entire storyline of Ep3 just for that one moment two movies later? This makes a lot of sense to me.

I don't know, I guess I don't really see how the ESB revelation is that big of a deal to keep as a surprise. I knew about it for years before watching ESB for the first time (which was on video). It never really hurt my enjoyment of the movie.

SO either way, if Anakin's true identity is kept secret in Ep3 or not, I'm not incredibly worried about it. I'm confident GL knows what he is doing.:)

[stillakid]

Originally posted by bigbarada


-The variety of "perceptions" and subsequent discussion is meant to lead to a better understanding of the saga for everyone.
How noble of you.:rolleyes: I understand them just fine, thanks.

Apparently not:

Originally posted by bigbarada
-I do believe that there are absolutes (ie, the parade sequence in TPM was "borrowed" from Dinotopia).
This is a new one. Never read Dinotopia so I'm not really worried about it.

------------

Originally posted by bigbarada
-If the question arises in anyone's mind, then by definition, it is a "problem" because it either wasn't made clear in the film or it "bothers" someone for some reason. Simple dismissal of it doesn't "undo" it from being a problem.
I'm not answerable for someone across the globe, I decide what is a problem and what isn't for me. "Issues" with CG Yoda, Midichlorians, Dinotopia rip-offs, etc. have never entered my mind until I came to these forums. Thus since the questions never arose in my mind then, by your definition, they are not problems. Right? Or am I "rationalizing" again?:rolleyes:

Choosing to not seek out and listen to differing viewpoints doesn't mean the the problems don't exist, it just means that you don't know about them. I didn't know that the O Rings on the Space Shuttle could crack in extreme cold weather, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't a problem. That's "ignorance" on my part, but then again, I wasn't motivated to find out if that might be an issue. I only found out that the problem existed because of a "major malfunction." So, yes, in a way, you are rationalizing again. That's not my fault. See your own Dinotopia comment above.



Originally posted by bigbarada


-It's just too bad that some choose to use disagreement as a tool for division instead of one for greater appreciation.
Better appreciation on whose terms? Let me get this straight, you're saying that the people who disagree with you are responsible for causing this rift and if we would all just come to our senses and accept your logic then we'd all be unified by a better understanding of the movies? Um, sorry count me out. If being a "true" fan means that I have to allow someone else to tell me what I should and shouldn't like in a movie based on their "expertise" then I guess I will never be a true SW fan.

Nobody, not even me, has ever attempted to TELL you what to like and enjoy. But admitting the problems exist doesn't mean that you have to stop enjoying it. See my ID4 comments for more on that. On a personal note, you've admitted in the past to having trouble with "authority," and that appears to filter into hearing out the "opinions" of those who just might know more about some topics than you do. Why go to college at all if you just intend on questioning the "expertise" of everyone who tries to expand your understanding of things?

[stillakid]

Originally posted by Caesar
Thanks JT :), don't get me wrong, I'm involved in plenty of debates (the lengthiest ones often involve stillakid). But that's been the case for so long that it's pretty normal to me. :D

Whoo hoo! ;)


Originally posted by Caesar

Another question to ponder that I haven't brought up before, 'Has it ever been Lucas' intention for the secrets to be kept, even though he advocates a 1-6 viewing?' I never got that impression from him. Heck, even the Cheerios box I was reading last night said that the prequels tell the story of how Anakin becomes Darth Vader. That's what George has been saying for awhile now, and I honestly don't know how he can achieve his goal of showing how Anakin becomes Darth Vader if he leaves the fate of Anakin Skywalker in Episode III as a presumed death.

Perhaps in the future, if there is a future, I need to preface each "discussion" with a "this is regarding whether GL should" vs "this is regarding a contradiction issue." I keep hearing from a variety of SSG'ers that "this is George's and he can do whatever he wants." Well, no duh. It should be one of those unspoken understandings for everyone whenever they post an "opinion." The same goes for Hasbro Toys then. Hasbro can do anything they want, but there is freedom to speak up over in those forums. Both the films and the toys are products that I'm shelling out money to enjoy. I understand that the manufacturers of those products have complete autonomy in deciding what to make and how to make it, but dropping my 2 cents in there on occassion in a (vain) attempt to influence decisions or get a better understanding of the decisions already made are what I thought these forums were about.

So, should GL link Anakin's identity to Vader's in the Prequels? No, if the original intention of the OT is held. But it appears that he isn't just changing the rules of the game, he's changing the game itself if this is now all about Anakin becoming a bad guy. I was under the impression that the saga was about a galactic struggle and the Vader downfall was just a piece of that.



Originally posted by Caesar

Do Midichlorians contradict any of the story elements that preceded their invention?

Depends on whom you ask! :D
To Lucas, nope, they don't contradict, to stillakid, yes they do contradict . . . to Caesar, they're kinda funny but not a contradiction.
I watched the commentary on TPM recently, and Lucas' comments on the midichlorians do hint at revisionism to me . . . but fundamentally I don't think he's contradicted himself. He does conveniently wax about how they were "always" intended and are hinted at in ANH but he never had time to fully explore the issues of the origin of the Force. :rolleyes:
Yet, I do see some compelling evidence in the OT that the Force is hereditary and biologically influenced. Ben said that the Emperor knew (as Ben did) if Anakin had any children they would be a threat. Why would they be an automatic threat unless Anakin's potential had been passed on to them? - heredity.
Luke tells Leia "the Force is strong in my family" - heredity.
Vader says about Luke, "the Force is strong with this one" - I see the argument that Luke was now open to the ways of the Force, so that's how he could have triggered Vader's interest. But I always think of it with the knowledge that Vader is Luke's father, and that's where he gets his potential - heredity.
By itself, ANH does convey the idea that "Anyone" can access the Force, but the rest of the OT trilogy opens that up and suggests heredity in the case of the Skywalkers. It's not a matter of the "haves vs. the have nots", rather it's a matter of the "haves vs. the have mores". Everyone including Han, Chewie, Lando, Luke, have midichlorians . . . only Luke has more and is naturally more gifted.
Whew, that being said I can tell you that my personal preference would have been to leave Ani's Force potential in TPM as just being really obvious to Qui-Gon and leave it at that . . . but I can see how the midichlorians work in the storyline and I honestly don't think I am "rationalizing" it away. Remember, I haven't been able to rationalize away Padme saying "get to that hangar!" :D

You make a very good argument and I am hard pressed to disagree with any of it. Point, Caesar. I still "consider" the Midi's to be a contradiction to the original intention of Luke's transformation from simple farmboy (someone we can emphathize with) to universal hero (someone we aspire to be). But we are almost on the same page.:)

[stillakid]

Just a couple things came to mind while I was at the gym this morning that I want to share.

The first is from Robert McKee's book,Story. Perhaps I've been saying it wrong, but this is what I've been trying to get at:


A rule says, "You must do it this way." A principle says, "This works...and has through all remembered time." The difference is crucial. Your work needn't be modeled after the "well-made" play; rather, it must be well made within the principles that shape our art. Anxious, inexperienced writers obey rules. Rebellious, unschooled writers break rules. Artists master the form.
(McKee, pg 3)


The original films seemed, to me anyway, to be Lucas's expression about what he wanted to see onscreen. The Prequels appear to be his second-guessing about what the audience wants to see onscreen. He's no longer creating the story that "is waiting to be found," rather he is creating movies to service the superficial desires of a populace.

With that in mind, my second thought came to pass. Unfortunately, I can't remember who said it, so I have no direct quotes to offer at this time. However, I'll attempt to paraphrase the best way I can. It went something like this:


Nobody bothers the DP (Director of Photography) because nobody really knows what he does. But EVERYBODY owns a typewriter so suddenly everybody thinks they're a [expletive deleted] writer.

[bigbarada]

Your last quote is exactly my point, stillakid.

As for the Dinotopia rip-off:

Did you know that GL used ideas from The Matrix to come up with the clone incubator designs for Ep2?

Did you know that Chewbacca is simply a male version of an alien GL saw on a comic book cover years before he started writing SW?

Did you know that Threepio's design was taken almost directly from the female robot from Metropolis?

Did you know that much of the plotline to ANH is taken almost straight from Akira Kirosawa's film The Hidden Fortress?

Did you know ESB's "cloaking device" reference is a nod to Star Trek?

I've know all that stuff for years (except for the Ep2 one), so if I'm not bothered in the least bit by those then why would the Dinotopia thing bother me at all?

[bigbarada]

You can quote rulebooks all day long, it's those "rebellious, unschooled writers" that challenge the medium and move it forward. If people didn't bother to challenge convention and only copied what had been done before then all movies today would sound like Shakespearian plays.

It's also one of those "rebellious, unschooled" writers who created this saga that we all love so much.

[JediTricks]

Originally posted by bigbarada
As for the Dinotopia rip-off:

Did you know that much of the plotline to ANH is taken almost straight from Akira Kirosawa's film The Hidden Fortress?Lucas and ANH/ESB producer Gary Kurtz knew this one, they knew it so much that they were desparately trying to buy the rights to "The Hidden Fortress" before ANH came out for fear of being sued and called thieves. Seems to me like it WAS a bother to Lucas back then whether he was seen as a plagiarist or not.

[Tycho]

It looks to me like Lucas wants to do everything in every movie and include it ALL in his SW films.

Things I've noticed in AOTC:

Aliens - when Padme and Anakin enter the caverns on Geonosis

Jaws - when the shadow of the assassin droid looks like a fin above Padme's bedboard.

Jurassic Park - more occasions than I care to recite

Saving Private Ryan - the Clone Troopers in the flack vs. the droids' positions

ANH - the battle holo-table and the Battle of Yavin's Base One

The Color Purple - Padme and Anakin in the field

Little House on the Prarie - same scene

Last of the Mohicans - whole love story, esp. Geonosis sequence through the duel.

Appocalypse Now - Mace on the Gunships, like helicopters over Vietnam.

Terminator - Nightclub scene

BladeRunner - speederchase

Back to the Future II - speederchase

Gladiator - Arena Battle...

American Graffiti - Dexter's Diner / Podrace in E1

this goes on....

[bigbarada]

I thought the scene with Padme and Anakin in the grass was taken from The Sound of Music?:confused::p

Don't forget Saturday Morning Cartoons inspired the podrace aliens.:)

I don't really count Gladiator or Ben Hur (chariot races/podrace) since both of those sports existed for thousands of years before either of those movies came out. Same with claiming that the Battle of Yavin was a John Wayne movie rip-off when it was actually taken from WW2.

[stillakid]

Originally posted by Tycho
It looks to me like Lucas wants to do everything in every movie and include it ALL in his SW films.

Things I've noticed in AOTC:

Aliens - when Padme and Anakin enter the caverns on Geonosis

Jaws - when the shadow of the assassin droid looks like a fin above Padme's bedboard.

Jurassic Park - more occasions than I care to recite

Saving Private Ryan - the Clone Troopers in the flack vs. the droids' positions

ANH - the battle holo-table and the Battle of Yavin's Base One

The Color Purple - Padme and Anakin in the field

Little House on the Prarie - same scene

Last of the Mohicans - whole love story, esp. Geonosis sequence through the duel.

Appocalypse Now - Mace on the Gunships, like helicopters over Vietnam.

Terminator - Nightclub scene

BladeRunner - speederchase

Back to the Future II - speederchase

Gladiator - Arena Battle...

American Graffiti - Dexter's Diner / Podrace in E1

this goes on....


Thanks for posting that! Had I done it (and I have been thinking about it), I'd have been accused of just being a Lucas/Prequel hater. This goes to prove that it's not the message that I deliver that has ever been in question, rather it's just been a series of "vendetta's" against my posts just because it's me saying "it." Oh well. :rolleyes: The truth always finds a way of revealing itself. :)

[Tycho]

I don't know about any or all of that, I think Stillakid posts intelligent things most of the time, and likes to be provocative at other moments.

However, as far as my point in posting all those movies Lucas is borrowing from, I say "Why not?"

All of these films are great movies. If you want to make the greatest saga of all time - include just about everything!

The only thing that is not going to happen is that Anakin and Obi-Wan are not going to find out that they are just organic batteries for machines that destroyed their galaxy and that their whole lives, and everything they've known, was all an illusion.

Godzilla - the Sando Aqua Monster

Battle Star Galactica - the Rebel Fleet at the end of ESB

Star Trek - "We will test it on Captain.... (Solo, Kirk -doesn't matter) Kirk always had a girl to say "I love you" also.

Independence Day - the Senator's starship landing

Clear and Present Danger - the starship bombing (versus a car bomb)

Romeo and Juliet - Anakin and Padme

Pearl Harbor (Battle Ship Row) - The Battle for Geonosis

Batman - the death of Shmi and Anakin's eventual masked revenge

Homer's "The Odyssey," - Ulysses journey into Hades - Anakin's ride into the Dark Side to save his mother

Sherlock Holmes - Obi-Wan's quest to find the origins of the Saberdart


So is the point - "It's all been done before?"

or is the point "It's never all been done in one saga before!"?

And how awesome is that?

That's why Star Wars rules!

[bigbarada]

I've begun to notice that every argument I get into with you, stillakid, begins with vehement disagreement (although the more recent arguments are becoming more personal) and eventually end with a stand-off after a long drawn out discussion. You've never convinced me of any of your points and I'm sure you equally disregard my points. So why don't we just come to the understanding that we are never going to agree on anything and leave it at that? I really don't have the energy of interest to go through yet another drawn out debate. I will continue to state my opinion; but if we don't agree I will leave it at that.

Like I said, these more recent arguments are getting more personal each time and eventually they will lead to real animosity. I don't want that, I don't have anything against you or your point of view, I just ask that you realize that everyone is entitled to their own point of view. They don't necessarily need or want to be educated on the way things "really are". So I propose we call this off, because you are right it is starting to look like a personal vendetta, and get on with our lives. We both like Star Wars, at least we have that in common. Sometimes these arguments get so heated that I tend to forget that.

Truce?

[RooJay]

Originally posted by bigbarada
I've begun to notice that every argument I get into with you, stillakid, begins with vehement disagreement (although the more recent arguments are becoming more personal) and eventually end with a stand-off after a long drawn out discussion. You've never convinced me of any of your points and I'm sure you equally disregard my points. So why don't we just come to the understanding that we are never going to agree on anything and leave it at that? I really don't have the energy of interest to go through yet another drawn out debate. I will continue to state my opinion; but if we don't agree I will leave it at that.

Like I said, these more recent arguments are getting more personal each time and eventually they will lead to real animosity. I don't want that, I don't have anything against you or your point of view, I just ask that you realize that everyone is entitled to their own point of view. They don't necessarily need or want to be educated on the way things "really are". So I propose we call this off, because you are right it is starting to look like a personal vendetta, and get on with our lives. We both like Star Wars, at least we have that in common. Sometimes these arguments get so heated that I tend to forget that.

Truce?

Ditto for me.

[stillakid]

As the solar eclipses waxes across the sky, Stillakid walks solemnly across the battlefield. His gaze sweeps back and forth, taking in the carnage of mortally wounded arguments strewn in his wake. The horror of war is all that is evident from the destruction.

Who was right? Who was wrong? Only the Maker, his Holiness Lucas has the answers. But will he hold the Truth close at hand or reveal it to His Faithful? Chances are he'll never tell for there is no motivation for Him to do so as long as the Sub-God's of Presidential Greenbacks continue to pour into His Kingdom. The demons of Revision are at His beckon-call if he chooses to invoke their names, for His congregation may only pay homage, yet have no say in the Word.

Stillakid hoists the white flag up through the drifting smoke into the twilight sky as the Sun returns to it's full glory.

[2-1B]

In the words of C-3PO . . . . . "He agrees !"
(that's from ROTJ for all of you purists ;) )

KIDDING ! ! ! :D :D :D


:)

:happy: