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tagmac
05-27-2002, 03:20 PM
This may have been touched on before, but for those who believe Palpatine and Sidious are not the same person, there is one little clue that, if you're not looking for it, you might miss it. Look at how Sideous walks, particularly the position of his hands, when he is talking to Maul in Ep. I on Coruscant. Then look at Palpatine in the scene with Anakin in Ep. II. His hands are in EXACTLY the same position when he walks. I'm not sure if this was deliberate or not, but I thought it was the most obvious clue to the non-fan that they are the same person.

therock0603
05-27-2002, 03:33 PM
Well it's pretty obvious cause you can see everything from his nose down at the end of E2. Also, at the end of E1 when Mace says "Which one was destroyed? The master or the apprentice?" it zoomed in on Palpatine, almost to the point of going up his nose.

2-1B
05-27-2002, 03:40 PM
And the way his face nearly slides off his skull when he says, :I luv democracy. I luv the Republic." :p

Not related, but I love the way he says "under the protection of your graces." :D

Beast
05-27-2002, 03:43 PM
It showed Jar Jar Binks and Queen Amidala in that shot also therock0603. So it proves nothing. I'm gonna stick with the possibility that Palpy may be a clone, until Lucas reveals the truth in Episode III. :)

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

therock0603
05-27-2002, 03:47 PM
Actually Jar Jar was not in the shot. It was Anakin, Obi-Wan, Amidala, and Palpatine. Everyone but Palpatine was extremely out of focus. Palpatine was the one that was being focused on. Also, in E1, when Palpatine is asking the Queen to stay and not go back to Naboo because it is dangerous, she leaves anyways. When she leaves it shows Palpatine begin to smile. It also says in the book that Jar Jar looked back as he was walking out of the room and saw a strange smile on Palpatine's face.

JediDave
05-27-2002, 09:01 PM
I can't believe anyone who knows STAR WARS well at all can have any doubts about Palpatine's alter-identity as Sidious. The whole underlying story of Episode I and II is that Palpatine is very carefully orchestrating *everything.* Also, it has been known since ROTJ that the Emperor was Palpatine. He was never referred to by name in the final version of the film, but Palpatine's names was used in the script and in the novelization. Those who can't see that Palpatine is in fact Sidious and the eventual Emperor must simply be puzzled by his machinations and just as deceived by his facade as the Jedi.

chewie
05-27-2002, 09:14 PM
It would be so silly and pointless to have a clone of Palpatine. There is no need for that. He has so far never been shown in two places at the same time. There is simply no reason to have a Palpatine clone.

And if it was a clone of Palpatine, it would not be the same age as him, it would be far younger, unless he was cloned at birth. The kaminoans themselves said that all their previous clones only grew at a normal growth rate. Only the new Jango clones had accelerated growth. And if Palpatine does have accerlated growth clones, he would have to have had at least two and potentially three being trained to act like him since they age so quickly that a clone from TPM era would be 20 years older of Palpatine rather than 10. Episode III would probably demand another new clone as well. So far there has been no hint of Palpatine having or needing a clone of himself to do his evil work. He has been quite successful doing it by himself.

Master Goeweins
06-08-2002, 11:34 AM
Ok, before everyone just posts the same answers again, hear me out.
In TPM Lucas kept it a mystery. With the title of the movie that is understandable, still so many fans guessed it or could tell by the end of it on their own. I mean come on, Chancellor Palpatine and Emperor Palpatine gives us a lot of direction here,
But why is it still so mysterious three years later in ATOC? Is Lucas up to something more.
I'm wondering... is Palpatine just a clone of Sidious? Palpatine is not just a man from Naboo who has risen to power. He was a Senator for many planets in a system, the most powerful being Naboo. We really don't know where he came from.
And, anyone else see how much he aged from TPM to ATOC. Heavy makeup! Could this be a more rapid aging clone?
And on a big note. If you read the book for ATOC, then why does Yoda sense fear in Palpatine when Jar Jar agrees to ask for emergency powers to be given to Palpatine. If he really was Sidious then why would he have any fear in this action.

I don't know this all seems to be adding up to more than just a simple difference of wearing a heavy cloak and not wearing one.

Jedi Clint
06-08-2002, 12:22 PM
He may have been nervous about a crucial step in his plan coming to pass. Palpatine is Sidious. The reason he is playing it up, is because he is making these films for future generations as well.

saladin
06-08-2002, 01:27 PM
I believ without a shadow of a dout that Palpy is also sidy and i'll stand by that.

Master Goeweins
06-08-2002, 10:53 PM
I always thought so myself, but knowing that in the EU we find out that the Emperor is a clone and he has used clones of himself all throughout his time does make you truly wonder...
this was revealed in the Dark Empire storylines.

2-1B
06-09-2002, 12:58 AM
Originally posted by Master Goeweins
I always thought so myself, but knowing that in the EU we find out that the Emperor is a clone and he has used clones of himself all throughout his time does make you truly wonder...
this was revealed in the Dark Empire storylines.

Yes, exactly, it makes me truly wonder who greenlights some of those EU storylines.

Beast
06-09-2002, 01:01 AM
Originally posted by Caesar
Yes, exactly, it makes me truly wonder who greenlights some of those EU storylines.
:D :crazed: Good one, Caesar. :D :crazed:

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

Obi-Don
06-09-2002, 03:55 AM
I believe they are one in the same. Yoda being as strong in the force as he is may just be starting to feel that something isn't right with this guy but can't figure it out.

MikeAndTheBots
06-09-2002, 08:22 AM
Definately the same guy. Remember, at this point in the story we've never met Emporer Palpatine so from the view point of TPM coming first it would be a bit of a mystery...

JediTricks
06-09-2002, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by Caesar


Yes, exactly, it makes me truly wonder who greenlights some of those EU storylines. The employees at Lucas Licensing, a division of Lucasfilm, LTD.

Megs 2
06-10-2002, 10:11 AM
John Williams' theme for the Emperor from ROTJ was used in some scenes for/Sidious from TPM. & from AOTC when Dooku meet w/his master near the end of the movie. They must be the same guy. He's 1 busy Sith.

stonecold
06-25-2002, 06:28 PM
Wouldn't any of the films' Jedi have sensed him. To them, on the outside, he is just a politician. But wouldn't any Jedi veteran have the ability to sense the Sith magic in him?

darthvyn
06-25-2002, 06:32 PM
the dark side clouds everything, yoda says so. it is also what was causing their diminished powers.

InsaneJediGirl
12-08-2002, 06:26 PM
While watching AOTC last night,I got to thinking( :eek: ).Does Yoda suspect Paply has Darkside ties/is Sidious.When they are up in his office/apartment and Paply is talking about protection for Padme.Yoda gives him this look(the scene when he turns his head,the camera is just on him.Also in the "Mystery" trailer) like he knows more than Paply is just a Chancellor.Then..that leads to question why didnt he send out an investgation into the Senate?Hmm..Strange and disturbing this puzzle is:D:D:crazed:

Darth Sidious
12-08-2002, 06:42 PM
I definitely noticed that, and I believe he senses something that he can't quite put his finger on about Palpatine. I don't think Yoda knows he is Sidious, or even a Sith, I think he senses something very vague that is just...not right.

LTBasker
12-08-2002, 06:48 PM
I think Yoda is definitely skeptical in how Palpatine acts, especially considering Obi-Wan's hate of politicians - even Padme. No way could that just be a personal thing, it's obvious the Jedi don't have high regards for them.

I'm not sure is Yoda thinks Palpatine is Sidious, or even a Sith in general, but theres definitely more than meets the eyes. Also I'm one of the few left that believes Palpatine is not Sidious. :happy:

Pendo
12-09-2002, 11:37 AM
I also think that Yoda suspects something, but I think Yoda just thinks he's corrupt and is twisting things to get into power, I don't believe he thinks any more than that!

PENDO!

Chiesa
12-09-2002, 02:40 PM
To the Jedi politicians are not easily trusted. Yoda probably just senses this and gives Palpy a queer suspicious look. I don't really think he suspects he is a Sith. I'll just take Palpy to be Sidious till proven otherwise.

Cheers...
:D:D:D:D

dirtybones
12-09-2002, 03:01 PM
How can Yoda sense the dark side in Dooku but not in Palpy? Was it because Dooku had let his guard down while dukeing it out with Obiwan and Anakin?

Sith Lord 0498
12-09-2002, 03:31 PM
Maybe Dooku wasn't as concerned about concealing the Dark Side within him like Palpatine is (for obvious reasons).

stillakid
12-09-2002, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by LTBasker
Also I'm one of the few left that believes Palpatine is not Sidious. :happy:

Damn, I can't find it right now, but I just read an article the other day that states explicitly that Palpatine is Sidious. I think it was an interview with an FX guy or something, maybe in the Insider. I just can't remember exactly. Anyhow, it was an offhand remark where they were talking about something else in the context of the final scene with Dooku on Coruscant. He said something like, "yeah, in that scene with Palpatine and Dooku" etc etc etc.

If I manage to shake it loose from memory just where I saw that, I'll post it. If anyone else remembers, please jump right in.

But the end result is, if all the obvious foreshadowing in TPM and AOTC isn't enough proof for you, then this off-hand remark has to be. :)

QLD
12-09-2002, 04:05 PM
If Palpatine isn't sidious, I swear, as god as my witness, I will never watch a prequel again. How stupid would THAT be. Not that it would surprise me with the all you can eat buffet of stupidity in the first two prequels.

Either they are one in the same, or Lucas is now officially, clinically insane.

Dar Basra
12-09-2002, 04:57 PM
How can Yoda sense the dark side in Dooku but not in Palpy? Perhaps the red lightsaber being swung at his head was too obvious a clue ever for Yoda to miss.

sith_killer_99
12-09-2002, 05:04 PM
Actually, you are all wrong.

Mace Windu is Darth Sidious!

Think about it. ;)

stillakid
12-09-2002, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by sith_killer_99
Actually, you are all wrong.

Mace Windu is Darth Sidious!

Think about it. ;)

You're not suggesting something as insidious as this, are you?:
http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=87866#post87866

Jaff
01-05-2003, 02:41 AM
Palpatine is Sideous, no doubt. The episode end shot. The: "We will watch your career with great interest." Lucas is clearly saying that politics is the real enemy to the republic right now and palpy is milking it. He is a "phantom menace" no one knows who he is. When amidalla screws up his plans in episode I Palpy makes sure they get free somehow. Dooku must find out, and somehow they join up either by palpatine politically manipulating dooku, or dooku has his own motives. Dooku was Qui-Gons master and 20 Jedi left the order after his death. Dooku was the last. Obviously Dooku leaves because he is disgusted that the jedi are nothing more than political policemen who serve a corrupt senate. Palpy must say something like the Jedi are the real enemy Dooku, you must see this. Help me and we will bring the Jedi to a new level of order. This might be why Dooku seems so hesitant at killing jedi in Ep II. Maybe a guilty conscience. We can see Palpy encouraging Anakin, and most of all we see him using Amidalla by giving her no option in the senate except voting Vallorum out. It's plain as day that he is both. His strength is his secrecy. That's why he uses all his powers to cloud the jedi's vision, and that's another reason why Palpy uses the jedi to go to Geonesis to kill all those who know of him. Unfortunately the incompetant jedi fail. Dooku and Gunray escape. He will not miss his targets in episode III.

sith_killer_99
01-05-2003, 08:31 AM
Ian McDiarmid=Emperor Palpatine (ROTJ)
Ian McDiramid=Senator Palpatine (TPM)
Ian McDiramid=Darth Sidious (TPM)
Ian McDiramid=Supreme Chancelor Palpatine (AOTC)
Ian McDiramid=Darth Sidious (AOTC)

So you see, no matter what, Palpatine and Sidious are the same person, from a certain point of view.;)

Capitan_Moroni
01-05-2003, 07:35 PM
just go watch the audio commentarys for Episodes one and two, both Georgy boy and I belive Rick McCullum say that Sidious is Palpatine.

TheDarthVader
01-14-2003, 12:13 PM
I believe that Sidious is Palpatine...but one thing I wonder about is after Dooku meets with Sidious, it shows the shot of the clone army and there's palpatine watching it with some senators...how much time has gone by in just one shot?? How can he be with dooku and then...bam!! watching over the clone army? I guess a little bit of time passes even though it's just between one shot.......:confused: :confused:

The Overlord Returns
01-14-2003, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by stillakid
You're not suggesting something as insidious as this, are you?:
http://www.sirstevesguide.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=87866#post87866

Hopefully you'll see this....

When the hell did Jango's son EVER reffer to him as "baba"????

All I ever heard was "dad"....

as in "Dad, taun we's here".......

And their from New Zealand. If anything, it's a negative portrayal of "kiwis" ;)

stillakid
01-14-2003, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by The Overlord Returns
Hopefully you'll see this....

When the hell did Jango's son EVER reffer to him as "baba"????

All I ever heard was "dad"....

as in "Dad, taun we's here".......

And their from New Zealand. If anything, it's a negative portrayal of "kiwis" ;)

You're not suggesting something as fruity as this are you?...

Mr. JabbaJohnL
01-15-2003, 06:20 PM
Ben Burtt calls Sidious the Emperor when talking about the final scene. WHile on the cut scenes thing. Hmm . . .