It really got into it in Outbound Flight. While it was a good book, the whole good guy Palpatine thing was over the top.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Chuxter
The Thrawn trilogy said it was alien bigotry, however later books said he kept his top tactician out there to be on the look out for Vong forces.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbarada
It's now #1 in SW, re-overtaking The Last Jedi, I don't think this is about old fans trying to rebuy 1 book over and over, I think it still has good word of mouth, it is #25 AND #35 in Space Opera (hardcover then kindle edition, respectively) behind Ender's Game, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, the John Carter on Mars series - it's in good company. Timothy Zahn is the #27 top author in Amazon's Author Rank system for Books > Sci-Fi, not just Space Opera or Star Wars, this isn't some old guard fans clinging to a single book or series, it resonates because it's good entertainment and has that Star Wars magic feel no matter when it was written. BTW, HTTE's 2 sequels are #s 3 and 4 in SW, while Spectre of the Past and Vision of the Future (the sequels) are only #18 and #20 in SW, so it's not blind faith.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbarada
If you had finished the series, you'd see more cracks in his character. Also, I think having him disconnected from Vader is a big part of what makes him able to be a competent officer in the Imp Navy, no sweating getting choked out for a stray cough.Quote:
Even though I never finished the series, there are enough cool elements in HTTE that I wouldn't mind seeing adapted into the ST. Plus I think Thrawn is a cool character at the design level, I just never really liked how he was written in the book. I can't help but think that, if the Emperor really had this tactical genius who always seemed to know exactly what the heroes were going to do and always had a contingency plan to stop them, then why wouldn't Palpatine have called upon his expertise at some point after the first Death Star exploded? It just feels too convenient for me. Kind of like, "Oh the Empire really did have this competent, unstoppable military force, but they were always just offscreen during the films."
I liked the alien bigotry thing, it resonated with me, when you look at the OT there's no aliens in the Empire, they hire snitches but that's about the extent of it. Even Palpy's weird ROTJ advisers are humans.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbarada
Ditto here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. JabbaJohnL
In ANH's DVD commentary he attributes the saga to Leia, Vader, Luke, the Droids, Obi-Wan, the Jedi, the Sith. The amount of people he claims the movies are about is STUPID. And when you look at his notes and his writings for ANH and ESB, it's clear Vader wasn't who the saga was about at all, Anakin Skywalker wasn't even Vader for a while. I have no problem with him seeing the post-ROTJ era differently from the EU writers and wanting now to make that into movies, but I do have a problem claiming it's all about Vader, that's disingenuous to a severe degree.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbarada
Now you're making me think that I need to take the time to read the Thrawn trilogy.Quote:
Originally Posted by JediTricks
Yeah, I kind of take it with a grain of salt, since Lucas changes his mind so much. And I definitely don't buy the claim the Star Wars has always been about Darth Vader. That was clearly not the case in the OT, he just ended up becoming such a powerful and iconic character (which almost had nothing to do with George Lucas whatsoever), that he kind of became a central character after the fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by JediTricks
Luke Skywalker was clearly the central character of the Star Wars universe when Lucas was writing ANH and ESB. So when he claims that the story has "always" been about Anakin/Vader, then I can't help but think that someone needs to take a fire extinguisher to George Lucas' pants because they must be on fire.
I kinda ignored it, to be honest. The appeal of Palpatine has always been that he has no redeeming features; to make him noble just doesn't fly.
I agree. Palpatine is not noble. However, well-written characters are not black-and-white, 2 dimensional. Palpatine can do some good things.
Taking EU into account, as we are here anyway, starting from Darth Plageuis:
Palpatine had Force talents that he kept hidden. He feared his own angry misuse of them.
He was a spoiled rich kid being raised on Naboo and his father became ensnared in political intrigue over corporate development contracts being sought my Damosk Holdings (Darth Plageuis' huge pharmaceuticals company's financing branch from Muun).
Plagueis wanted to exploit the anger Palpatine had towards his disciplinarian father and manipulate his father at the same time, also named Palpatine - the family last name. Plageuis could then develop on Naboo and destroy their environment using their planet's core energy (eventually Kamino sufficed - but they were probably originally going to manufacture the clones on Naboo but the Sith thought better of it and hid them on Kamino. That could have worked, btw, because Naboo was going to need better defenses as the Sith were preparing the Trade Federation to invade at the same time, making the Republic look weak and in need of a standing army as it were - and as it eventually happened.).
Anyway, the future Darth Sidious did not use his first name at all, because it was something his father (Cosigna Palpatine) gave him. He just went by Palpatine because fate had made him that way (of that family on Naboo).
Plageuis discovered Palpatine was Force talented and trained him. Palpatine murdered his own family when he got angry he was being sent to a university away from Damosk (because his father didn't like Darth Plageuis - though he didn't know Damosk by that name).
Palpatine's quest always became gaining power. He wanted control over everything.
Since the Yuuzhan Vong posed of a threat - which he could have learned of from Darth Plageuis or on his own - after he was already a Sith Apprentice - he would not want the Vong and their "embrace of pain" crap controlling HIS life for sure.
Thus, yes, he had weapons of mass destruction at his disposal to defeat the Vong which he learned were coming. But it was for PALPATINE alone that he would stop them as he did not want to live under their religion and he was convinced the Sith were more powerful than the Vong. The Jedi needed to be done away with anyway, but Palpatine did not do away with all Force-talented adepts - as evidenced by Galen Marek and Mara Jade just to name two.
He was trying to raise Dark Jedi in the Clone Wars cartoon - the babies that the Kyber Crystal revealed which Cad Bane was hired to retrieve. Remember?
I don't want to oversell it, it's not the best thing ever, there are flaws and rough parts, but I think as a trilogy it was quite enjoyable and had a good sense of Star Wars magic and a decent finale for what was trying to be done. If you have the free time, it's worth checking out, it's a fine read on its own merits.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbarada
Were they corduroy? ;)Quote:
Yeah, I kind of take it with a grain of salt, since Lucas changes his mind so much. And I definitely don't buy the claim the Star Wars has always been about Darth Vader. That was clearly not the case in the OT, he just ended up becoming such a powerful and iconic character (which almost had nothing to do with George Lucas whatsoever), that he kind of became a central character after the fact.
Luke Skywalker was clearly the central character of the Star Wars universe when Lucas was writing ANH and ESB. So when he claims that the story has "always" been about Anakin/Vader, then I can't help but think that someone needs to take a fire extinguisher to George Lucas' pants because they must be on fire.
Annnyway, that tasteless joke aside, I wonder if Lucas truly knows what he had in mind anymore, or maybe he is just winging it and saying these things to sound important.
Wise, that whole tangent sounds really bad and just wrong-headed for a Sith.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Chuxter
The Vong were a threat to Palpatine's power. He didn't plot to save the galaxy for its residents' sake. He did it for his own to hold on to power as the ranking Sith Lord.Quote:
Originally Posted by JediTricks
The KOTOR Jedi would try to appease the Vong and make peace with them. Luke's NJO responded a bit like the Sith would: complete genocidal anihilation. The difference? When the Vong's leadership was brought down, Luke let the civilians willing to assimilate settle down. Had Darth Sidious been in power: he would have ordered total extermination (to a degree - he did not entirely care about wiping out every Jedi in hiding - just the ones that caused trouble as they appeared - like some guy named Kenobi on his Death Star). Vader obsessed with hunting down the Jedi because he misplaced blame for Padme's death on the Jedi Order denying him and for their faults in methodology for fighting the Clone Wars - everything else he got mad about.
To recap:
Mace Windu with the Vong: "How do you feel about peace today?" ....."Embrace your pain!"
Luke Skywalker with the Vong: "Now that your on your knees since we cut your feet off, I'll listen to you beg!" ...."Please spare me."
Darth Sidious with the Vong: "Die!" .......the dead don't respond
It illustrates how the NJO differs from the KOTOR, but is still significantly different from The Sith.
I have the titles!
Episode 7: a new flare
Episode 8: the lens flares back
Episode 9: return of the lens flare
I read a bunch of Star Wars novels when I was in Korea, but that was because I spent so much time on radio watch for hours and hours at a time with nothing to do. Now, when I pick up a Star Wars book I get 2 sentences in and then realize that there are about a million more productive things I can be doing with my time.Quote:
Originally Posted by JediTricks
I even bought some old Star Trek novels (at like 25¢ each on eBay) and I get about a chapter or two into those and I start to feel guilty that I'm wasting my time there as well.
However, I've logged over 600 hours playing Skyrim on my XBox... go figure.
So, unless Disney announces that Ep7 is going to be named "Heir to the Empire" then I doubt that I will ever really get around to reading those books.
I hear ya on the novels, it's easy to read when you've got to kill that much time, but when you have other stuff it's really hard to justify it. That said, reading is WAY more rewarding mentally than TV and video games because the reader is actively creating in their imagination the scenes they are reading about. For a long time I wasn't reading at all, then I got a hand-me-down e-reader and that... rekindled (sorry) my interest in books, so when I make time to read I find it more rewarding overall.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbarada
Trek novels are tough, what era? I was buying a lot of used trek for a quarter at my local used book shop about a decade back and generally hating 1 out of 3, but enjoying just as many. Trek has a LOT of different voices, that's both good and bad.
As for HTTE trilogy, I think you're ultimately going to be missing out a little, especially if Ep 7 sucks, because these books work on the Star Wars level where most others I've read don't.