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  1. #11
    Senator Bel-Cam Jos's Avatar
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    Aug 2001
    Where "text" & "friend" are (n) & "fail" is (v)


    Originally posted by MichaelV103
    I work for Walmart and we got the book on Wednesday, havent read it yet though.
    Every single Wal*Mart, K-Mart, and Target near me sell NO new Star Wars books, except the hardback AOTC novel. What's up with that?!?

    *** SPOILERS ***

    I'm sorry. I like a psychological, cerebral story, but this book, in my humble opinion, is now the worst SW book ever written. Vergere's double-talk was very hard to understand (as it was intended to be), Jacen's dreams and inner conversations were just weird. All the "it-is-but-it-isn't" or "let-it-be-what-you-want-it-to-be" discussions grated on me. Killing Ganner: why? So he can become a Yuzhaan Vong legend? Sorry; just more NJO wheel spinning. Maybe this'll make more sense after a few more novels, but right now I dislike it emensely
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  2. #12
    I have to say I really liked this book. After getting use to the double talk, I thought the story was well written and gave us insight into the Vong's world beyond fighting.

    Several questions were also answered with this book. The most important is the lack of connection to the Force by the Vong. The Force binds everything together, including the Vong. Vergere helped Jacen see that everything is part of the Force, even that which you don't know about. I'm sure Jacen's experience and knowledge will be put to good use.
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  3. #13
    Registered Eternal Padawan's Avatar
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    Aug 2001
    Outside SSG, banging on the window furiously, yelling "LET ME IN!"
    I think Vergere's deal is the editors and publishers aren't sure whether to make her character arc good or bad, so they give their writers vague outlines but don't allow them to give any concrete evidence one way or the other. I don't think they know how the series is going to end. That was fine two years ago when they had just started NJO, but I think they should have gelled on a finale by now. They haven't and the series is suffering.

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  4. #14
    Originally posted by Eternal Padawan
    I don't think they know how the series is going to end. That was fine two years ago when they had just started NJO, but I think they should have gelled on a finale by now. They haven't and the series is suffering.
    I have to disagree. I think they(Del Ray and the authors) know how the series will end, and this book is really a bridge to get the Jedi where they need to be in the end.


    I also liked Jacen journey into the Dark Side much more than Jaina's. While both were treated fairly lightly and could have been developed more, at least Jacen seemed to struggle with the realization that he has darkness in him. Jaina just did some bad things and then at the end went 'Oh, I was bad, I'll stop' - a real letdown.

    Additionally, the ambiguity of the dialog between Vergere and Jacen really helped open my views about the force, should help change the way the story moves. While it wasn't as straightforward as Yoda's lessons with Luke, it was similar and demonstrated the need to break down pre-conceived notions of the force in the student.

    Finally, I have to agree that I'm starting to dislike all the characters dying. I think Chewbacca's death, while disturbing, was good for setting the tone of the series. Anakin's was really distressing, and while it showed his valiant heroism, I didn't think it was necessary. Now with Ganner, I might have to go into each book thinking which defined character is going to dye in this one. The dramatic impact of the death of main or semi main characters is wearing off.

  5. #15
    As far as main or semi-main characters getting killed, I think it has to happen at some point. I know a lot of these characters are imbued w/ this sense of invulnerability but that can't last forever. I could name half-a-dozen minor characters to kill off and keep Chewie alive but it did give depth and emotion to the story.

    Just to change the subject a little, when are they going to explore the possibility of leaving the galaxy? I'd be interested in seeing what it's like where the Y.V. are from. In fact, when the Republic wins, will the Vong leave or just inhabit a small portion of the "known" galaxy like the Empire?
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  6. #16
    Vortex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location, location, its all about location
    Didn't they say some where, that the vong home world was destroyed many generations ago and no one remembers or knows their homeworld?

  7. #17
    Maybe, when the series ends, the Vong will go live w/ the Ssi Ruuk (sp) out on the very edge of the galaxy.

    One of the things that I like about the series so far is the way the books happen in (psuedo) real time- that about 3 years have passed in the SW universe as well in our own. Every now and then we get a catch up book (like traitor) that bridges the time of a few novels, but overall I like the timeline.

    I'm glad that the book addressed the issue of different sides of the Force, and one side being better or worse than the other. I have never been in full agreement with the teachings of the Force that we've all had. To be told that anger, fear and aggression are of the darkside. These are basic emotions that any human, and I would argue, any being, must deal with on a daily basis (as well as all the other emotions).
    We see in E1 how Obi reacts when QGJ is killed. Obi doesn't look like a picture of serenity at that point. In ROTJ I got the feeling that Luke had tapped in to his darker feelings, which gave him the power to defeat Vader.
    The Force is a tool, and like any tool, it can be used for good or bad.

    Does anyone else feel the same?
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  8. #18
    Senator Bel-Cam Jos's Avatar
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    Aug 2001
    Where "text" & "friend" are (n) & "fail" is (v)


    Power is a negative thing, even if it's "for a good cause." Luke suceeds against Vader because he uses anger to fuel his fighting. If one is willing to do that for small things, giving into anger is easier for larger things. If you defend and not attack, you rely on the opponent to act first. If neither side decides to fight, both win, none lose.

    I'm reminded of the Japanese tale of two samuarai who meet on opposite ends of a bridge. Neither is willing to step aside, and then they simply leave. Both consider themselves the "victor," by making the other move away, even though neither one gets to go the direction he intended.

    Huh? Wha-? Oh well...
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  9. #19
    I enjoyed Traitor much more than Dark Journey.


    They really worked to develop the Jacen character and Verger had this Zen thing going on. I actually enjoed it.

    I was also disappointed by the death of Ganner. However, it served a purpose IMO. Because it all relates back to what Jacen said about "OUR SIDE" and his teaching the Vong about compromise. Ganner's death (and Verger's Vision) show a melding of both worlds. Like it or not the Vong are here to stay. AND, they have forever changed to face of the SW Universe.

    I was getting a bit frustrated with some of the storylines and the main plots flowing towards the BIG picture. But Traitor seemed to set-up a lot of promising things.

    I am looking forward to the next novel.
    May the force be with you.


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