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  1. #1

    dooku:sith traitor or jedi allies?

    in episode 3,lucas will have to put the events that bring obi-wan,bail organa and others to join the rebels.we know that the separatiste movements is a rebel movement agains the republic.i think that dooku will betray sidious and join back the jedi because of many reason.
    1:dooku' apprentice,qui-gon have been killed by a sith.
    2:dooku have been a jedi about 70years.
    3:dooku's plan was to inflitrate the sith to defeat them by interior,at high cost.because of the inaction of the council and the senat to stop corruption in the senat.he was tired of that.

    obi-wan will see that dooku as not lie when he told him that a sith was controling the senat.dooku will convince obi-wan to join him in the separatiste movement when all will know palpatine is a sith and the empire is born at the end of the film .

    it could be one of the reason anakin battle obi-wan.when he'll see obi-wan allies with dooku,anakin will be furious to see is former master is a traitor of the republic,anakin who like palpatine.
    you have no chance to escape,jedi.surrender and you will survive...maybe.

  2. #2
    I think that in Episode III Mace will be dueling Dooku and Dooku will be on the edge of death and he'll be begging for mercy, saying that he has always been on the jedi's side. Mace starts to consider this but Anakin turns up and kills Dooku. I don't think that if this happened that Dooku would have been sincere when he said he was on the jedi's side but I still think when he's on the verge of death he'd do and say anything to save himself. Did that make any sense?

  3. #3
    I think Krade Wassal is RIGHT:

    Dooku did join the Sith to infiltrate them and destroy them from within, perhaps. But I think he also may have become corrupted, or persuaded that the corruption in the Republic is not worth a Jedi's service to.

    I also think he is Anakin's father, and Anakin will learn this only after he's killed his own father.

    Obi-Wan may not have known this, but the Jedi Council definitely does.

    Dooku planned to infiltrate the Sith with Sifo-Dyas and Mace Windu (or one of them is also known as Sifo-Dyas). It was not authorized by the Jedi Council. Building the Clone Army was a test of their loyalty to Sidious.

    But Darth Sidious knows of their treachery. He allowed Dooku in because he also knows Dooku was Yoda's padawan and he can throw Yoda emotionally off-balance by corrupting Dooku. Yoda is the most serious threat to him - as I think Yoda already knows exactly who and what Palpatine is.

    But Sidious also knows that Dooku had a son - something that Palpatine will reveal to Anakin, to finally snap the kid's anger with Obi-Wan and convince him that he's damned for killing his own father!

    Anakin will kill Dooku within the first 30 minutes of the movie.
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  4. #4
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    Interesting...very interesting Tycho...personally...I don't think that Dooku will be Anakin's father...but I do like the idea that Dooku will be killed off early on in EIII. I think that Obi-Wan will be the one who destroys him though. But maybe it will be Anakin...to get revenge for his arm???
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  5. #5
    Wow Tycho. Those are pretty big predictions. But the Dooku being Anakin's father doesn't sound that weird how you put it. I still don't think Dooku is loyal to the jedi because, come on. He tried to kill Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Yoda. I change my Episode 3 predictions all the time but what could happen is...

    Palpatine hires Anakin as a bodyguard and tells him that Dooku is out to kill Palpy so Anakin needs to kill him. He tracks him down, cuts his right hand off (like Dooku did to Anakin) then kills him. Anakin has grown very close to Palpatine and trusts him more than anyone else. Palpatine declares that the jedi are traitors so he sends out the Stormtroopers and Anakin to kill them. Anakin confronts Obi-Wan they have their battle Anakin is left for dead. Palpatine gives Anakin his armor and life support. Palpatine has now saved Anakin's life and gains Anakin's absolute trust. He believes that the jedi are traitors of the republic. Padmé gives birth to the twins, Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Luke leave in a ship right after their birth. Yoda is dropped off on Dagobah then Obi-Wan and Luke go to Tatooine. Padmé goes to Alderaan and stays with the Organa's and Leia. Palpatine hires a bounty hunter (Maybe Boba) to assassinate Padmé. Boba does this and Palpatine tells Vader that the jedi killed her. Vader duels and kills Mace. His journey to the dark side is complete.

    What do you think?
    Last edited by JesusFreak; 10-28-2002 at 01:28 PM.

  6. #6
    These posts really changed my views on Episode 3.

    Originally posted by JesusFreak
    Palpatine hires Anakin as a bodyguard and tells him that Dooku is out to kill Palpy so Anakin needs to kill him. He tracks him down, cuts his right hand off (like Dooku did to Anakin) then kills him. Anakin has grown very close to Palpatine and trusts him more than anyone else. Palpatine declares that the jedi are traitors so he sends out the Stormtroopers and Anakin to kill them. Anakin confronts Obi-Wan they have their battle Anakin is left for dead. Palpatine gives Anakin his armor and life support. Palpatine has now saved Anakin's life and gains Anakin's absolute trust. He believes that the jedi are traitors of the republic. Padmé gives birth to the twins, Yoda escapes to Dagobah. Obi-Wan takes Luke to Tatooine right after birth. Padmé goes to Alderaan and stays with the Organa's and Leia. She is assassinated by someone, maybe Boba Fett. Anakin is now Vader. Vader duels and kills Mace. His journey to the dark side is complete.

    What do you think?
    I'd buy most of that. I agree at some point, Jedi will be made out to be traitors to the Republic. I also agree at some point Obi-Wan will inflict injuries on Anakin that will force him to wear the armor. A minor point is that Luke probably went to Dagobah at first rather than directly to Tatooine. In ESB, Luke makes a comment on how Dagobah "seemed familiar."

    Before I read this thread, I was thinking that Dooku was a traitor to the Jedi. I figured there would be a scene where Anakin was brought before Palpatine and Dooku. Palpatine would say "Take his place by my side." I suppose it makes even more sense if Dooku is Anakin's father.

    I wonder if we will even see Padme die in Episode III. It would make sense if we did. I'm assuming Padme and the Jedi are on the run from the "bad guys." Padme could and secretly hand the baby over to Bail Organa on Alderaan. Then, as Padme, Jar Jar, or Jedi are leaving Alderaan, someone (say Boba "No Discintigrations" Fett in Slave I, or Anakin himself...if you want to be real dark) destroyed that ship, not knowing who exactly was on it.

    That could solve the problem of Palpatine and Anakin looking for Leia. So even if they knew of the twins, they would only think Luke was alive.
    Yo momma. That's right, I said "yo momma".

  7. #7
    I completely forgot about Luke's memory of Dagobah. I'm guessing Obi-Wan and Luke drop Yoda off on Dagobah then go to Tatooine.

  8. #8
    JesusFreak almost has it exactly as I think it will unfold, too.

    There's some differences:

    Anakin will be close to Palpatine, we've seen that already - and plus he's close to his wife in the Senate.

    When he'll leave to rush off and help Obi-Wan versus Dooku, it will appear that the Loyalists have been attacked and only Palpatine escaped alive (Padme and her unborn are thought dead by Anakin at this time).

    Meanwhile, he's killed Dooku while saving Obi-Wan - all the while not knowing Dooku is his father.

    When Anakin rushes home to Coruscant, distressed at the fate of Padme, he'll learn from Palpatine that Dooku WAS his father and the Jedi never told him.

    Obi-Wan will learn that Palpatine is Sidious, and come there to destroy him.

    1) Palpatine will use this attack to blame the Jedi - specifically Obi-Wan, for treason and tyring to assasinate him. (Also since the Jedi ordered the Clones, and Yoda assumed command over them, while Dooku led the Separatists, Palpatine will say that the Jedi are all guilty of treason and being the masterminds behind this. He'll say no one is trustworthy and he must assume command as the Emperor and good citizens must lynch the Jedi - leading to a lot of the exterminations right there - remember the Jedi are only working in teams of 2 on many worlds.

    2) Anakin will fight Obi-Wan to protect Palpatine. Palpatine will tell him that his dead father believed in Palpatine's goals for rooting out corruption in the Republic, but it was thought to keep Anakin's head clear until his training was complete. Obi-Wan betrayed the Republic by coming there to kill Palpatine, and he betrayed Anakin by not letting him rescue his mother, keeping him from saving Padme and his unborn children, and allowing him to murder his own father - who was actually loyal to the Republic. There's even truth to that if Dooku was trying to infiltrate the Sith for Jedi reasons.

    Since Qui-Gon was Dooku's padawan, Shmi Skywalker had heard stories about the good Qui-Gon Jinn, and knew she could trust him to take Anakin so long ago. She lied about there being no father - or told the story from "a certain point of view" because Dooku wasn't there to raise their son - or he didn't know she was pregnant until Anakin's midi-chlorian tests were revealed to the Jedi - 10 years ago (from E2) - and exactly when Dooku decided to leave the Jedi Order as his son was arriving - to avoid contaminating contact, and to try and root out the Sith before his son would have to face them - because they thought he was the Chosen One - though that was all a lie. Qui-Gon believed in this prophesy because Dooku raised him with it. This was just in case something happened to Dooku, his former padawan would look out for his son if it so happened to be that Anakin was discovered. That is also why Dooku hired Aurra Sing - an ex-Jedi that he would have known - to protect Anakin like only someone trained as a Jedi could. I think Aurra Sing will appear in E3 and have something to do with Anakin learning all the damning truth about his history.

    This also explains Vader's relentless desire to be a father to Luke, and reveal to him his parentage - Vader is actually trying to be a better parent than his father was, if you can laugh through the irony in that.

    Meanwhile, Palpatine will fess up to Obi-Wan's accusations and say "Now kill your Master and take your father's place at my side!" It will seem like a good offer since Palpatine is telling him the truth and Obi-Wan is StarWars' "habitual liar." Only Anakin will lose this fight and receive the wounds that require him to wear the Vader life-support suit.

    He can't fall INTO lava or a smelting pit, but being near enough the heat to have it burn out his lungs will be enough to accomplish the medical condition Vader suffers from. It will look to Obi-Wan - who will try and save his padawan-gone-wrong - that Anakin has died. He will learn the truth later (in this movie) - but be one of the few who know. Padme may be told, but warned not to contact him - that he's gone over to the Dark Side, and she must keep the secret that her children have survived so she can never see her husband again. Then again - they may not tell her - because feasibly, Pamde could bring Vader back to the lightside. Palpatine must have found out she lived, and had her assasinated later - being unable to track down the 'child' - as no one but Yoda really knows there are twins. Or Palpatine will dismiss it - figuring even if a "Luke Skywalker" did get trained - if there were any Jedi left alive to do it, he'd surface in the war and his father would convert him or kill him, just as Vader promised. In ROTJ, Palpatine was willing to let the Rebel Alliance come to him, versus hunting them down. He might be doing the same to see if a young Skywalker shows up and Vader only needs-to-know if Luke does in fact show up.

    I'll stop here because there's a lot to digest in my theories.
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  9. #9
    Barring a flash-forward that leaps at least 3 or 4 years into the future after Anakin and Obi Wan duel, there is no way to show Padme die on screen in E3 given that Leia remembers her.

    I'm betting that Dooku will die even sooner than the first 30 minutes of the movie at the hands of Anakin.

    When we first see Luke at the beginning of ROTJ, he has gone through noticeable changes since we left him in TESB. He has learned how to control himself, and his power has subsequently increased dramatically as well. I think the exact same will be true of the Anakin we see at the end of AOTC, and the one we will see at the beginning of E3 leading troopers into Dooku's stronghold intent on his destruction. The difference between father and son is the nature of their intentions toward the protagonist. Luke want's to free his friends from the Jabba's palace. He mentions there is no need for violence. Anakin wants to rid the galaxy of Dooku, and vengence is not entirely absent from that equation.
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  10. #10
    Those are all good theories, I have nothing to add to them. Here is why I posted this- Dooku begging for mercy??? Yeah right.
    "Ohnomyfriendthisisamistakeaterriblemistaketheyhav egonetoofarthisismadness!" -Count Dooku, AOTC

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