Vader's Identity

[Imperial Monarche]

Don't you think that, if Lucas wants these six movies to flow as a whole saga, Lucas should make it so that the viewer doesnt know that Anakin is Darth Vader until ESB? Like, we all know that he is Vader, but like generations from now that will watch it Ep. I to Ep. VI will not watch the movies with the preminition that Anakin turns into Vader. Then, the surprise in ESB will still be the biggest twist in movie history. In Ep. III, Lucas needs to make the audience believe that Anakin dies after his battle with Obi-Wan and then this new Sith appears because Tyranus is killed (by whoever, thats an entire different thread though). That new Sith is Darth Vader. Now, the audience of the future believes that Anakin was killed before he could turn evil and this new Sith has come to stand at Palpatines side. Then, in the second to last episode we find out that Anakin has not died but has been Darth Vader all along. Does anyone else agree with me?

[Darth Trymybestus]

I see what you mean but it will make Anakin's downfall that much more dramatic if we see him as Vader at the end of Episode III.
For people who watch all 6 for the first time, they won't know that Palpatine is the Evil Emperor that we all know and love and they won't have a clue that he's Darth Sidious
I guess that whichever way you watch them.. there will still be surprises because people who watch all 6 for the first time will still be so shocked that Anakin actually turns bad because of the person he is in the phantom menace

[2-1B]

Originally posted by Imperial Monarche
Don't you think that, if Lucas wants these six movies to flow as a whole saga, Lucas should make it so that the viewer doesnt know that Anakin is Darth Vader until ESB?

Then he shouldn't have made it so the audience knows Luke's last name in episodes IV and V.

Sure, your suggestion could be a cool way to watch the movies.
The way episodes I and II have been written, there's really no point in not showing Ani as Vader in episode III because the locations (Tatooine in I and the Lars homestead in II) are dead giveaways.

However, if Luke ran around in IV and V under the name Luke Lars, not knowing he was a Skywalker until VI AND if George had omitted Tatooine from I and especially the Lars homestead and characters from II, then I think the secret could be preserved fully intact.

As it stands now, many people want it to still remain secret. I respect that perspective, but I have yet to see any theory as to how III can now be done with that secret intact. I'm not convinced by the idea of just leaving such coincidences as mere "hints" because they are so obvious.

But still, one can dream.

[Toad]

Originally posted by Caesar


Then he shouldn't have made it so the audience knows Luke's last name in episodes IV and V.

That's his point...Just because we know that Luke's last name is Skywalker will lead no one to believe that Vader is his dad, because in Ep. IV and V, we don't know that Vader was "once Anakin Skywalker, [his] father." Meaning, we never know that Vader's last name is technically "Skywalker."

If Anakin is presumed dead at the end of III, then perhaps the audience would be left to think, "hey neat, that Anakin guy's son is going to avenge his death and make things right in the next trilogy!" Then when Vader appears at the end, we'll just think it's another Sith Lord. (I say "we" in collective audience manner, not "we" as the nerds who've made this thing our life and know it in and out. )

I'm in agreement -- for the sake of drama and good storytelling, we shouldn't know that Anakin has become Vader until Luke finds out.

[2-1B]

Yes that's true Toad, and I would completely agree with it if Obi-Wan hadn't told Luke of Vader murdering his father.

If "we" see Obi-Wan presumably kill Anakin in battle, and then in episode IV "we" are introduced to Darth Vader whom Ben claims killed Anakin . . . then what? Heck, even if episode III were done with Anakin "dying" at the hands of someone other than Obi-Wan -- why is Old Ben telling Luke his father was betrayed and murdered by Vader?

[The Overlord Returns]

Because obi wan is a filthy liar.

In fact...almost every question in sw can be answered with that one sentence.

[2-1B]

Well that would explain things, but then they should show Obi-Wan as a shady character in the prequels so when "we" watch them in order, "we" don't come to see him as a standup guy who has turned into a liar as an old man.

[Imperial Monarche]

also, obi-wan knows that anakin is vader, but that doesnt mean we all have to know that. now, when the children are seperated we could assume they were given away because their mother dies, and later realize that it wasnt just to give them a place to live but a place to hide. so obi-wan tells luke his father was killed by vader to protect him, but the audience doesnt really know that but people will start suspecting that there maybe something more to vader that will be revealed later. still, if its done that way nobody would guess anakin to be turned into darth vader.

[derek]

Then when Vader appears at the end, we'll just think it's another Sith Lord

then why didn''t darth tyranus appear at the end of episode 1?

seriously, i don't think having vader just appear is lucas' style. if you listen to lucas, he constantly says he's repeating a theme, though they sometimes contrast. at the end of jedi, we saw vader remove his mask, and was revealed to be anakin. i think lucas will reverse this, and at the end of episode 3, we'll see the mask go on and anakin will become vader.

lucas is spending a lot of time with the prequils connecting everything. it just wouldn't jive to have anakin presumed dead and another robotic sith lord suddenly appear. plus, the whole prequil trilogy is about anakin's fall. it would be kinda lame if, after seeing him give into the dark side, he just dies and vader appears.

the only reason anyone has this "anakin dies" theory is because of what obi-wan said in episode 4. fans have taken this and twisted it into some alfred hitchcock/m. night shamalayn kinda ending, that isn't in lucas' nature.

[Toad]

Originally posted by Caesar
Yes that's true Toad, and I would completely agree with it if Obi-Wan hadn't told Luke of Vader murdering his father.

If "we" see Obi-Wan presumably kill Anakin in battle, and then in episode IV "we" are introduced to Darth Vader whom Ben claims killed Anakin . . . then what? Heck, even if episode III were done with Anakin "dying" at the hands of someone other than Obi-Wan -- why is Old Ben telling Luke his father was betrayed and murdered by Vader?

You make valid points. Once again, Lucas' betrayal to his original story rears its ugly head. (I'm not bitter, I just act like it). The whole "from a certain point of view" thing by Obi-Wan in ROTJ is okay I guess, but you are right ---- really, no matter what, if Anakin is "dead" at the end of III, then we're stuck going "darnit Obi-Wan, you are a filthy, filthy liar! (and not to mention completely inept at fighting Dooku....)!"

Too many inconsistencies! (I made a thread on that in the Non-Spoiler forum). And this is another one to that IF, and only IF, we the audience are left to think that Anakin was killed by Obi-Wan. I guess the only way around that is if we're left to believe that Obi-Wan TRULY felt like he wasn't fighting Anakin....and for that to happen, Anakin would already have to be Darth Vader.....which leads us back to the same problem!!

I guess that leaves one option: he has to be Vader, and we're supposed to think it's interesting and mythical from the perspective that Luke doesn't know Vader is his father. Still, this takes away SO MUCH DRAMA and the most suprising element of the OT.

BAH!!!!!!!