Vader lies to Palpy!!!

[TheDarthVader]

In ESB, when the Emperor says, "Can it be done?" Vader says, "He will join us or die." Vader knew Luke wasn't going to join him. Vader could have used the dark side of the force or his lightsaber to kill Luke on Bespin. Why wait? Vader made the choice not to kill him. Therefore making his previous comment to the Emperor a lie.

Brian

[stillakid]

Originally posted by TheDarthVader
Vader knew Luke wasn't going to join him.

The flaw in your supposition is above. Vader didn't know that. Especially at the time. When that conversation took place, Vader was still fully committed to the Empire. We only start to see his committment waver in ROTJ, once he finally gets to meet Luke face to face.

So, no, in my opinion, it wasn't a lie at all. Nothing of the sort.

[2-1B]

I agree with stillakid, because Vader's plan on Bespin was to tempt Luke AND take him to the Emperor. That's when he would turn; Vader himself couldn't do it, but he fully believed the Emperor would win Luke's favor.

[Darkross]

I kind of think it was partially a lie and partially not...

Vader was committed to turning Luke to the darkside...especially once he learned how powerful he was and saw his potential on Bespin.

Darth Vader: "Luke you can destroy the Emperor...he has forseen this...it is your destiny!...join me and together we can rule the galaxy as father and son!"

Vader had plans to oust the Emperor...once he successfully turned Luke. I don't think for a minute that he was counting on the Emperor to turn Luke based on his comments above. Both the Emperor and Vader knew that if Luke joined them...one of them would have to go...each one knowing what the others intensions were. It was an unspoken understanding that Vader and the Emperor had.

Vader only wavered between light and dark in ROTJ...when Luke confronted him on Endor. (IMHO)!

[The Overlord Returns]

Well, if Vader intended on overthrowing the Emperor, why did he stop Luke from killing him in ROTJ?

[JEDIpartner]

Because killing the Emperor would have completed his jouney to the dark side... the Emperor even mocked him by saying something like, "Strike me down and complete your journey to the dark side..."

[The Overlord Returns]

Originally posted by JEDIpartnr
Because killing the Emperor would have completed his jouney to the dark side... the Emperor even mocked him by saying something like, "Strike me down and complete your journey to the dark side..."

Hang on......I think my first post could have been clearer....

IF vader, who had already explained his desire to overthrow the emperor w/ Luke, and then rule together, WANTED to have the emperor gone, and have luke join him in the darkside.....why did he stop luke from killing the emperor in ROTJ?

OR, are you stating that, by the point that he stops luke from striking down the emperor, Vader was already against having his son join the darkside?

[El Chuxter]

Vader is wavering between his loyalties to Luke and Palpatine, but at that moment he's more loyal to Palpatine, who doesn't want to be killed by Luke. He'd rather use Vader as a pawn to kill Luke, pitting father against son. By attacking the Emperor, whether he kills him or not, Luke dangerously skirts the edge of the Dark Side.

[Rogue II]

Well, I was confused for a minute or two. Lets see if I got it straight.

In ROTJ, the Emperor basically starts the fight between Luke and Vader. Luke wants to kill the Emperor to save the Rebellion. Vader, with conflict within him, does what he is trained to do by protecting the Emperor. Luke doesn't want to fight Vader and proceeds to hide until Vader mentions "Sister." At that point, Luke goes ballistic, and whacks off Vader's hand. Palpy proceeds to fry Luke since he won't turn to the dark side. And, Vader finally chucks Palpy down the shaft to protect Luke.

Something still doesn't totally make sense. At what point did Vader give up on turning Luke to the Dark side and overthrowing the Emperor? Granted, Vader did destroy the Emperor, not to control the Galaxy, but to save Luke.

[The Overlord Returns]

That's what I am getting at...............where along the lines did vader decide he'd better stick it out with Palpatine, rather than overthroiw him and rule the galaxy with Luke?