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  1. #1

    Commutation of death sentences in Illinios

    I applaud Gov. George Ryan in his decision. A brave move. I personally do not agree with the death penalty and would RATHER pay slightly higher taxes to keep these people in jail for life. And for several reasons. 1st, I think the death penalty is the EASY way out for people who have committed horrible crimes. Put these people in jail for life and make them pound out license plates for the rest of their lives and have to LIVE WITH and constantly think about what they have done. Plus, baring a confession, you can NEVER be completely sure somebody is guilty...how many times have we seen DNA evidence free inmates who have been in jail 20, 30 years in recent years? Also, you never know when a person may actually be able to be successfully rehabbed and become able to make a positive contribution to society. Even if it is from a jail cell.
    "Whatever you do, take care of your shoes."

  2. #2
    I do not support the Death penalty myself.

    I would rather see these guys spend the rest of their lives doing hard time.

    But we have to make sure it's hard time. No more cable TV just...PBS! Make the red necks listen to hip hop all day and the gangsta's listen to Country and Western.

    Make these guy work off their debt to society and earn their keep, if they refuse to work, throw 'em in a hole.

    Just my 2 cents.

    I actually agree with EricRG on something!
    May the force be with you.

  3. #3
    The people who receive the death penalty are not able to be rehabilitated in my opinion.

    And yes, people are exhonerated by DNA evidence every so often. But very rarely. But there is no perfect justice in this world, as much as we would like to believe we have it here in America.

    I would rather these people be shot, 24 hours after their sentencing, than pay 35,000 a year to keep them alive so they can do things like make license plates. We could give people jobs making license plates rather than needing prisoners to do it.

    Maybe if prison were a deterrant I wouldn't feel this way. Maybe if a 20 year sentence wasn't actually a 2 year sentence because of overcrowding. Hell, some people prefer to be in jail than on the streets. Free rent, cable, food, activities.

    Pesonally, if it were up to me, there would be only enough food to survive, and they would have no luxuries at all. No libraries, tv's, activities. It would be friggin' jail for chrissakes!

    I have no sympathy for people to commit crimes, because, well, you commit crimes, you reap what you sew.

    And they need to reorganize the sentencing system, so that what you get sentenced, is your actual sentence.

    And cut the crap with the 20 year waiting to be executed. It may be letting them off easy.....but I think life in prison is even easier on them, and even harder on us. What is worse than death with someone with no morals? They sit and think about their crime? Sounds about as effective as the "time-out" method of discipline. The only thing worse than death to these people is torture. ANd the US would neeeever do that. Right?

    I say kill em, with a bullet. It's much cheaper than the electric chair or gas chamber, or lethal injection.
    "Roger Nasty Butler!"

  4. #4
    China, the Democratic Republic of Congo, the United States and Iran are the most prolific executioners in the world. Indeed, the US is one of six countries (including also Iran, Nigeria, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Yemen) which executes people who were under 18 years-old at the time they committed their crimes. (http://www.derechos.org/dp/)

    What great company we are in!

    For a comprehensive list of countries who have/have not abolished the death penalty:

    http://www.web.amnesty.org/rmp/dplib...2568810050f6b1

    Look at that list that the US in found in. Any other "modern democracies" in that list?

    QLD - how can you defend such a policy if even ONE innocent person is killed by your solution? Are you saying that judges and juries and lawyers are infallible and never wrong? That's quite silly. You have no sympathy for people who commit crimes...neither do I. But how can you be SURE people are guilty, especially when you advocate a policy with such an itchy trigger finger?

    Life in prison is life in prison. These people will NEVER be let out of jail. Yes, perhaps people in jail do have a few too many amenities like cable TV. But what is wrong with jailhouse libraries? I think you are painting a bit too rosy a picture of life in jail. Have you tried living in a 4' X 6' room, only being let out a few hours a day, for years on end? Not to mention the constant threat of violence and the wonderful company you do get to mingle with. Sounds pretty hellish to me...

    And if certain people cannot function in society and would RATHER be in prison, what is wrong with them being in prison? What's wrong with paying taxes to keep these people out of society?

    Also, to my knowledge, the death penalty has NEVER been shown to be a deterrant. Perhaps you could site something that shows it is?
    Last edited by EricRG; 01-11-2003 at 06:46 PM.
    "Whatever you do, take care of your shoes."

  5. #5
    I don't agree with Amnesty International, some of their stuff is a little too slanted for my tastes, just like the ACLU.

    I noticed a certain phrase in their "list". Abolished the death penalty for all crimes vs. abolished the death penalty for common crimes.

    Where exactly do they draw the distinction?

    Remember, the United States once abolished the death penalty. Those on death row had their sentences commuted to life in prison without the possibility of parol. It was re-instated under very specific guidelines. Does A.I. consider murder a common crime? All I am saying is everyone has their own agenda.

    I honestly believe that if we execute one innocent person the price is too high. Some take the opposite approach Some agree with China and say shoot the guy, then send a bill to the family for the cost of the bullet.
    May the force be with you.

  6. #6
    Well, SK, after further searching, it seems like the language on the Amnesty site seems to be universal (even the "non-liberal" ones - see the 3rd example). Here's some other examples:

    http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777460.html

    http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/dpicintl.html#ar

    http://www.religioustolerance.org/execut3.htm#when

    Just out of curiosity, what do you not like about Amnesty? Amnesty provides facts to almost all governments and is recognized throughout the world as THE authority on the treatment on prisoners throughout the world. I am interested in what you think.
    "Whatever you do, take care of your shoes."

  7. #7
    You site your third source as non-liberal but they site the ACLU a number of times as their source.

    I guess they interpret us as killing "common criminals" because we have decided to leave it up to the states to decide. Truth be told, states only allow for execution for murder.

    All I'm saying is that the United States does not go around willy nilly handing out the death penalty. I just get a little sick of hearing how the United States is murdering innocent children with the death penalty. They blow things way out of proportion. I don't agree with the death penalty, but it is an issue for the people of the United States to decide.

    Not to mention AI would hate me. I believe in hard labor for many criminals, if they refuse, I say throw 'em in a deep, dark hole and let 'em rot. I'm not talking about "Murder in the First" Kevin Bacon kinda hole, but still, someplace very unpleasant.

    I kinda like Amnesty International, for the most part, they're certainly a lot better than the ACLU! If I had to side with one organization to abolish the death penalty it would by AI.
    May the force be with you.

  8. #8

    Re: Commutation of death sentences in Illinios

    Originally posted by EricRG
    I applaud Gov. George Ryan in his decision.

    Heh-heh, you know what? I knew you would.


    A brave move. I personally do not agree with the death penalty and would RATHER pay slightly higher taxes to keep these people in jail for life.

    That's because you've never experienced the agony of having your child kidnapped, raped, beheaded, then dropped in a ditch. Talk to families who have, then see if you feel the same way.


    1st, I think the death penalty is the EASY way out for people who have committed horrible crimes.

    Huh? Easy way out? It's death. How much more drastic can you get. Comments like the ones you've made.....especially the one about how you'd "rather pay slightly higher taxes" makes me wonder your age. How old are you (if you don't mind me asking)?...and have you ever paid taxes? In other threads I've seen you condemn the United States, the President, our policies, our military, etc.........you don't want your precious dollars spent on a more advanced military.....or a war.......but would "RATHER pay slightly higher taxes" to keep a guy alive that likes to slash people's throats then have sex with their corpses?


    Put these people in jail for life and make them pound out license plates for the rest of their lives and have to LIVE WITH and constantly think about what they have done.

    Here's a little secret. They don't "think about what they have done".......at ALL. Nor could they give a s**t. Hardcore killers on death row aren't crying in a Bible like on television. These are people without remorse....career criminals (the majority, that is) that would love to find a guy like you prancing around in front of the prison with your little protest sign. Thirty minutes after your visit with these guys you love so much, you'd be crying for stitches and your mother. You'd sign a pro-death penalty petition faster than you were able to pick up the soap.


    Plus, baring a confession, you can NEVER be completely sure somebody is guilty...how many times have we seen DNA evidence free inmates who have been in jail 20, 30 years in recent years?

    (Oh brother... ) Has this happened? Yep. Does it happen a lot? Nope. Does it happen enough to determine that the death penalty should be abolished? Jesus Christ, no....what's a matter with you? Guys don't sit in death row a day or two, then fry in the chair. They often have years to appeal their case. Some have succeeded. Good for them. Many brutal killers haven't. Bzzzzzzzzzzzzt, see ya! I'd support more scrutinized cases and sentences, but eliminating it all together? Please.


    Also, you never know when a person may actually be able to be successfully rehabbed and become able to make a positive contribution to society. Even if it is from a jail cell.

    My God, man. What land do you live in? Have you met any gang-bangers or felons? Drug dealers or "bad" Biker chapters? I have. Playing in a band for 16 years all over Florida, Myrtle Beach, S.C., and in Atlanta, I've met some pretty nasty dudes. Most of the ex-cons I've met (including our old guitar player who just finished a 5-year sentence for crimes related to his heroin addiction) were not "successfully rehabbed" in prison. Jesus, dude...they're even more bitter than before. They are institutionalized and only come out better criminals, that's all. Just a little smarter for the worst.

    Honestly, it's not like I don't see where you're coming from, but slow down a little bit. All we know about the man you applaud is that he pardoned and gave lesser sentences to convicted murderers......all because he almost saw an innocent man executed. Understandable, but nothing to be cheering about.
    Last edited by Emperor Howdy; 01-11-2003 at 08:50 PM.

  9. #9
    Howdy, I'm not cheering it either, but I agree with the decision.

    I will say that I am opposed to the death penalty, but it is NOT influencing my perspective here.

    In the past years, Illinois has learned of how flawed their system is. I honestly think it's the best solution here - commute all of those sentences and "start over" if you will . . . if any of those people with commuted sentences are actually innocent, well then they have more time to be freed. Obviously, MOST of those with commuted sentences are guilty and are getting a break here. We'll have to live with it. I think it has to be acceptable in the interest of sparing a few possible innocents.

    Okay, now that they have been commuted, I think Illinois can go ahead and reinstate the death penalty whenever they can use it responsibly. If they are already able to do it, then I say start sentencing people to death tomorrow.

    I will still be opposed to the death penalty, but if they can apply it fairly then I won't really argue against it. They had to do SOMETHING though . . . from now on they damn well better use the system effectively.

  10. #10
    No matter what you think of the law I think its a crock that one man thinks he knows better than the law. Those criminals were all put there after extensive legal proceedings, examination, cross-examination, evidence for/against, etc. were weighed. This guy comes a long and decides that the law isn't right and steps on all the toes of those that put the criminals there.

    If you don't like the law then change it permenantly don't wave your "all-forgiving" wand and let them off.
    "No one helped me so why should I help you?" - College professor circa 1999

    By choosing not to decide you still have made a choice.

    I'm in love with the women of Univision.

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