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  1. #1

    Powell's Speech should be done....

    Did anyone actually catch it on television? I haven't been able to watch it, as I'm at work.

    What's the verdict? I know the key points included:


    An audiotaped talk Powell says reveals Republican Guard officers discussing hiding a vehicle from weapons inspectors.

    Satellite photos he says indicate "active chemical munitions bunkers" disguised from inspectors.

    Satellite photos he says show the Amiriyah Serum and Vaccine site and a ballistic missile construction site from which the U.S. says evidence was removed.

    An assertion by Powell that Saddam Hussein has barred scientists from giving interviews to U.N. inspectors, on pain of death.

    Drawings of what Powell says are mobile biological weapons manufacturing labs.

    Satellite photos Powell says indicate that earth was moved at Al-Musayyib chemical production site to hide evidence.

    An audiotaped talk Powell says records a Republican Guard commander ordering references to "nerve agents" removed from wireless communications.

    Photos Powell says depict the "aluminum tubes" that the U.S. says were imported by Iraq for its nuclear weapons program.

    A satellite photo he says depicts Al Rafa'h, a liquid engine test facility, partially in production.

    How do you think the world will react to what has been presented today?

  2. #2
    Nope have not heard anything yet
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  3. #3
    Well, I have to say it was pretty compelling. He presented numerous audio and visual elements to support the accusations, a few of which were undeniably damning. Admittedly, much of the evidence relies on coraborated eyewitness evidence from Iraqi nationals who are now in hiding. If there is a weak point in the "proof" that Hussein could take advantage of, this is it. He could claim that we've made it all up. But there are still other photos and audio tapes that he couldn't really explain away easily.

    I don't think that anyone at all really believes that Iraq doesn't have this stuff. Most people believe that Hussein is a cruel heartless dictator who has continued his weapons programs against the dictates of the Security Council.

    What remains to be seen is if this really convincing evidence holds enough ooomph to allow those who are against an invasion to accept one as necessary at this time. We know that Iraq is building up it's weapons capabilities. The question to be asked and answered is are we comfortable in allowing it to continue? Will it take Iraq (or a terrorist that purchases said weapons from Iraq) to actually use these weapons against us or our allies before any action is taken? There's no doubt that the weapons are in there, but if we invade, how quickly can we locate them ALL and destroy them? How many more lil'Terrorists will we create in the process? They're being brainwashed against us from birth and now we threaten to invade. If we don't leave the place better than we found it, the situation might be worse in the end.

    Ultimately it's just too bad that these crazed lunatics are born in the first place. Look at the mess they cause generation after generation after generation after.....

  4. #4
    It's the visual evidence that really is compelling, IMO.

    Obviously, the audio stuff is all open to interpretation, indeed, it could be forged.

    The question is, does it merit war? Will military action succeed in dissarming Iraq where it has failed before? Why are the inspectors now "useless" when they did more to disarm Iraq the first time around than any military action did?

    And then there is the question of what happens after.....

  5. #5
    I felt the satillite imagery was pretty telling. They had several "here's the facility as of ??/02 and here it is when the inspectors showed up on ??/02." There was indications that the Iraqi's were moving stuff out as trucks were surrounding the facilities prior to the UN Inspectors arriving. Of course those that don't wish to believe the worst could say there is no proof what was going in those trucks.

    In my opinion, with the game Saddam's been playing for over a decade now I'm willing to believe those images show his continuing effort to play the shell game to hide his true weapon capability. It's no surprise, the French have already said that the UN inspectors have to be given more time. I'm assuming they would like to wait another 11-12 years.

    Perhaps they should be reminded that this game is exactly what allowed Hitler to quickly conquer most of Europe in the '30's. More time won't answer more questions but permit Saddam more time to prepare.
    "No one helped me so why should I help you?" - College professor circa 1999

    By choosing not to decide you still have made a choice.

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  6. #6
    Yes, the satellite evidence is what I'm looking forward to viewing. Other than that, the audio, again, is easy to dismiss or dispute, and then there are the assertions that Iraq hasn't accounted for known WMD's from the past, nothing new there.


    As for the Al Qaeda link, notice the wording. Never does he state that saddam has links to al qaeda, always using "Iraq". That has already been proven to mean the northern kurd groups "answar al - islam" affiliate that is linked heavily with Bin Ladens network. What they are doing is leading the community to a conclusion they want, rather than what is actually true.

    I haven't seen it, but he certainly seemed to do a good job.

  7. #7
    i don't think it would be forged that would just be dumb on our part. unless bush wants the economy to go to hell now, rather than later. it is all comvincing in my book. i think war would be enebidible(sp?) anyway. they are hiding way too much. they need to get rid of suddam and then find bin ladden.....who is probably connected to suddam in some way, shape, or form.
    h
    Sampsonite! i was way off!

  8. #8
    Originally posted by hango fett
    i don't think it would be forged that would just be dumb on our part. unless bush wants the economy to go to hell now, rather than later. it is all comvincing in my book. i think war would be enebidible(sp?) anyway. they are hiding way too much. they need to get rid of suddam and then find bin ladden.....who is probably connected to suddam in some way, shape, or form.
    h
    Bin Laden, if he has any connections in Iraq, would have them in the north with the kurds, as I said above. Saddam is the opposite of a fundamentalist muslim, in fact, fundamentalism is a threat to him politically.

    How would it be dumb? There's as few ways to prove it was forged as their are to prove it's the real deal. What I'm saying is it doesn't work as concrete proof, it's too easy to dispute.

  9. #9
    I agree that the audio is not concrete proof, though none the less damaging.

    Powell has drawn some clear lines between Al Queda and Iraq IMO. Let's face it, Iraq being under economic sanctions would be greatly helped by a very rich Bin Laden. Likewise, Bin Bobo would be greatful to any country that provided a safe port in the storm, so to speak. Most telling to me was the history Powell layed out between Iraq and other terrorist groups.
    May the force be with you.

  10. #10
    Originally posted by hango fett
    i don't think it would be forged that would just be dumb on our part.
    I don't think anyone is suggesting that Bush et al would fabricate that kind of evidence. What I suggested was that the evidence that Powell presented is all fairly circumstantial and could be accused of as being fabricated if Iraq wanted to (which I'm sure they will). Without a "smoking gun" from the inspections, say one of those mobile labs or a cache of armed and aimed weapons, we don't have much else to prove the case to the world.

    What the Bush administration might be hoping for is that our invasion would be so swift, that we would find such material in the aftermath. Two problems with that: the first is that, again, the bad guys could claim that we planted it there. The second is that the bad guys would probably work to quickly destroy any evidence before we got to it, thus resulting in a situation where no evidence will ever be found.

    Any way you slice it, it ain't good.

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