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Thread: No teaching?

  1. #1

    Thumbs down No teaching?

    I just thought of this. Someone else probably has, too, so I doubt it's an original idea. The Classic Trilogy was full of teaching.
    - Obi-Wan taught Luke about the Force and life.
    - Yoda taught Luke about the Force.
    - Han taught Luke about "reality."
    - There were more "battle plan" scenes.
    - The Emperor tried to teach Luke about the Dark Side.
    Where were the teaching moments in the Prequels? I think that is quite possibly the reason why so many fans dislike them. Qui-Gon just threw out occasional comments about the Force, but with little depth to them. Fables and myths are usually full of lessons and morals, and that's what made SW such a universally accepted and loved series.
    Who'd have thought that school-type lessons would make a movie better, eh? Other thoughts?
    CU Later. Contracted Universe? Later. :(

  2. #2
    Obi-Wan's been a padawan his entire life, but you do get that stuff when Qui-Gon and Anakin are together. I don't know about depth, but "Your focus determines your reality" is pretty heavy. You also get him offering wise words and lessons to Jar Jar and Obi-Wan as well.

    And then there was Yoda and the Younglings in E2. Sure we missed a lot of Anakin's training between films, but we didn't see all of Luke's either. Of course there isn't as much as there is in the OT, because that's dealing with Luke coming of age and learning these things.

    MTFBWY and HH!!

    Jar Jar Binks
    THE SPY. THE SPACEMAN. THE GODDESS. THE ROBOT. THE GORILLA.

    AGENTS OF ATLAS - Returns in Early 2009.

  3. #3
    Sounds good to me JJB. I agree with that. We don't get to see much of Anakin's training. I wish that we could have but we don't get to see it. (Because of yoda saying, "much fear I feel in his training.") oh well.
    One way to out think people is to make them think you think they'll think what you are not really trying to get them to think what you think.

  4. #4
    It's also more focused on one or two locations with Luke's training whereas the training of Anakin is more on the hoof. Obi-Wan tends to spout stuff at him wherever they are. It's more like an older/younger brother thing between Obi and Anakin it seems to me. More familiar and less formal. Perhaps Anakin is actually also teaching obi a thing or two. Obi is certainly a hell of a lot more mellow in AOTC than in TPM. Obi in TPM is really brittle and rigid to me. And let's not forget Yoda scolding Obi at the end of AOTC for calling the war a victory. Reminding us that Obi wasn't really ready to take on a padawan after all. Not a natural teacher because he isn't mature enough which is part of the reason Anakin is out of control perhaps. Look how long it takes Obi to control Anakin in the gunship when he wants to go back for spudme. Anakin is more than obi can handle. Obi is little more than a padawan himself. Still hanging onto Yodas apron strings and having to ask for help to find a planet on a map and too thick to figure out the puzzle of the missing records for himself. Obi-Wan, always the learner. Only becoming a true master once he is struck down and becomes one with the force.
    And we do get to see some Jedi learning in the library, there in the background sat at tables with holobooks. So there is learning in the PT.

  5. #5
    There was plenty of "teaching moments" in TPM and AOTC, and actually I believe there are more in the prequels so far than the OT. TPM pretty much starts off with a "teaching moment" with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan on the Trade Federation Starship.

    Obi-Wan -"I have a bad feeling about this."

    Qui-Gon - "I don't sense anything."

    Obi-Wan - "It's not about the mission master, it's something elsewhere...elusive."

    Qui-Gon - "Don't center on your anxieties Obi-Wan keep your concentration here and now where it belongs."

    Obi-Wan - "But Master Yoda said I should be mindful of the future."

    Qui-Gon - "Not at the expense of the moment, be mindful of the living force young padawan.

    Something like that. The first "learning moment" in ANH was with Ben & Luke at Ben's home, and that's like 1/4 through the film.

    Also, some of the "learning moments" in the prequels are different b/c it's between a master and a padawan, or council member & knight, etc. where in the OT it was between a former Jedi Knight, and a punk *** kid. Everytime Luke was being taught something it semed like he was doing an impression of Conan Obrien doing an impression of Pres. Bush. "HUH?!"

    I do agree with EJ about Obi-Wan not being ready to take a padawan, especially Anakin, but with the exception of Mace and Yoda, I doubt any other Jedi would have been ready to take on an apprentice like Anakin either.

    Both the OT and prequels have some great learning moments, some with more depth than others, but still learning moments.

  6. #6

    Re: No teaching?

    Originally posted by Bel-Cam Jos
    I just thought of this. Someone else probably has, too, so I doubt it's an original idea. The Classic Trilogy was full of teaching.
    - Obi-Wan taught Luke about the Force and life.
    - Yoda taught Luke about the Force.
    - Han taught Luke about "reality."
    - There were more "battle plan" scenes.
    - The Emperor tried to teach Luke about the Dark Side.
    Where were the teaching moments in the Prequels? I think that is quite possibly the reason why so many fans dislike them. Qui-Gon just threw out occasional comments about the Force, but with little depth to them. Fables and myths are usually full of lessons and morals, and that's what made SW such a universally accepted and loved series.
    Who'd have thought that school-type lessons would make a movie better, eh? Other thoughts?
    I agree that there weren't any true teaching sequences as you suggest. Those other Prequel "teaching" moments were throw-aways that didn't really say anything pertinent beyond trying to be cheap foreshadowing elements.

    But for me, it isn't so much the "teaching moments" or lack of them that bothered me, it was the silly sci-fi/fantasy staple of a "prophecy." BUNK! Why toss one of those superstitious crappola story elements in there? Forget the fact that the "prophecy of the one" isn't explained at all, it's just unnecessary. Why couldn't Anakin's motivation to become evil have been that he was just a disenfranchised youth? Why toss Midichlorians and prophecies into it as cheap and easy plot devices to advance the story? That only leads to cheap and silly "teaching" side-bars that do nothing but try to prop up the weak foundation of the plot.

  7. #7
    Now that I think about it the "teaching moments" in the OT are just repeats of what has already been said in the Prequels. Remember, GL has said that these films are to be viewed from Ep's 1-6, and this is how future generations will view it. So all the teachings in the OT will be what has already been said in the prequels. No wonder GL wants to go back and revamp the OT b/c (viewing in the correct order) the OT really has nothing going for it anymore. With the campy acting, lackluster special effects, terrible lightsaber duels, etc. the OT has no magic left. Those of us who grew up with it will always love it, but unless GL can fix them (that would be one hell of a magic trick) people will be sitting through the OT hearing crap they have already heard before in the prequels, but without the great story, awesome battles, and overall better characters that make up the prequels.

  8. #8
    Originally posted by mini-rock
    Now that I think about it the "teaching moments" in the OT are just repeats of what has already been said in the Prequels. Remember, GL has said that these films are to be viewed from Ep's 1-6, and this is how future generations will view it. So all the teachings in the OT will be what has already been said in the prequels.
    That was my point. The OT had more meaning to its "teaching moments," whereas the PT seems to be more about the action than an underlying story. Yes, the who really IS Darth Sidious/Palpatine "mystery" is there, but for some reason that is weak to me. Don't gedda me wrong, I have great faith in the films, it's just that, the Classic Trilogy, she always wins for me. Heh, heh.
    Originally posted by mini-rock
    No wonder GL wants to go back and revamp the OT b/c (viewing in the correct order) the OT really has nothing going for it anymore. With the campy acting, lackluster special effects, terrible lightsaber duels, etc. the OT has no magic left. Those of us who grew up with it will always love it, but unless GL can fix them (that would be one hell of a magic trick) people will be sitting through the OT hearing crap they have already heard before in the prequels, but without the great story, awesome battles, and overall better characters that make up the prequels.
    Whoa. Them's fightin' words to some. That's like saying a 1970 Mustang's not as good as a 2000 model because it doesn't have a CD player, an airbag, or power windows. The "magic" for me is in the OT, and a different enjoyment for the Prequels. I like them both, but for various reasons. Lackluster special effects? I still love 'em today. If E3 has those stupid Matrix/Hidden Dragon hang-in-mid-air fights, I'll lose some respect for the director. SW is ita own series, and I think that the acting has been true to the characterization that's been established.

    When all 6 films are available for $65 to see in one theater for 14 consecutive hours,* I will look forward to E4-6 that day even more!

    * - Prediction not yet confirmed.
    CU Later. Contracted Universe? Later. :(

  9. #9
    The scene with the younglings, Yoda, and Obi is one of THEE best in AOTC. Listening to the insight and humor of Yoda is reminiscent of ESB.
    No matter how I die, even if there is a suicide note; it was murder. Cheers!
    MWHAHAHAHA!

  10. #10
    Originally posted by mini-rock
    Now that I think about it the "teaching moments" in the OT are just repeats of what has already been said in the Prequels. Remember, GL has said that these films are to be viewed from Ep's 1-6, and this is how future generations will view it. So all the teachings in the OT will be what has already been said in the prequels. No wonder GL wants to go back and revamp the OT b/c (viewing in the correct order) the OT really has nothing going for it anymore. With the campy acting, lackluster special effects, terrible lightsaber duels, etc. the OT has no magic left. Those of us who grew up with it will always love it, but unless GL can fix them (that would be one hell of a magic trick) people will be sitting through the OT hearing crap they have already heard before in the prequels, but without the great story, awesome battles, and overall better characters that make up the prequels.
    Is this guy for real? The OT has nothing going for it? Has MR actually seen any other movies beyond Star Wars episodes?

    For one, it was GL's decision to start at Episode IV, not one. Because of that, he can't go back and undo what he has already done. The OT is out there and loved dearly...as is. He can always change whatever he wants, but the fact remains that most people will always enjoy the originals more and they will like him and his decisions less and less. The OT has ALL of it's magic left but the Prequels and their lack of originality and depth are sapping the life from the saga.

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