View Poll Results: Will Lucas tie the gap between the trilogies with Episode Three?

Voters
607. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, completely.

    99 16.31%
  • Pretty much.

    237 39.04%
  • Not completely.

    232 38.22%
  • Not at all.

    39 6.43%
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  1. #21
    well, for what it's worth, here would be my take on it:

    The Jedi are arrogant and stoic to a fault. The whole idea of having no connections to people, the emotional detachment, and the Jedi playing the role of the 'old world' religious leaders all points to them as being severly flawed. What makes Luke different from the Jedi that have gone before him is that he places more value on the lives of his friends and family than he does on the Jedi code of behavior and training. Anakin does the same thing, but obviously loses the battle to stay good (and we don't know how yet.) Luke wins that battle (and ultimately, Vader does too I guess) and Luke shows that you have to have a balance between these high-minded ideals that the Jedi stand for and a more basic connection to the people around you.

    It's not enough to just be connected to the whole universe through the force-- it's a case of seeing the whole and not the parts. The Jedi to me are painted in a very negative light. Sure, they are great warriors and they are revered, learned people, but they are unable to see what's going on with Palpatine because they are too stuck in their old ways. They believe that the Jedi order and the rules surrounding it should always conquer all, but in truth, they are lacking what most humans would consider very basic human qualities.

    If you look at Star Wars as a mythic story arc, it's kind of a classic tale of the old, established powers-that-be crumbling under their own failure to grow and change. Anakin and Luke represent varied attempts at changing with time and bringing more humanity and empathy and love to the Jedi order.

    If you follow out the logic of Yoda's warnings to Luke, then Luke should not confront Vader and the emperor, should not help his friends, and should stay with Yoda to complete his training. Well, in the end, obviously Luke made the right choice, which meant that Yoda was wrong. Of course, you could always say Yoda was telling Luke what he needed to hear, but the films don't support that. After Luke leaves, Yoda is concerned that he is going to fail... so obvioulsy he wasn't using reverse pyschology.

    So, that's it. There's no reason for Palpatine and Sidious to be two different people, and in fact, this is a case where everything points to them being the same person and that conclusion makes the most sense. In the larger scale of the story, the idea that Palpatine is just a clone doesn't help. What we need to see is the fall of the Jedi not at the hands of one sith, but under the weight of their own lack of forsight. And that's what I think we'll see.

  2. #22
    Yoda already knows.


    I think Yoda (and possibly Mace) already know that Palpatine is Darth Sidious.

    That knowledge combined with the final scene in "X-men" lead me to compare it to Magneto and Xavier playing chess in his plastic prison.

    Palpatine has the Jedi in check: he is the Supreme Chancellor before they knew any better.

    Now the Jedi would commit treason against the Republic if they killed Palpatine, Dark Lord or not.

    Most of the Jedi don't know - Yoda doesn't want any vigilantes taking matters into their own hands.

    But when Obi-Wan learns the truth (most likely from Dooku who tried to infiltrate the Sith to destroy them from within, IMO), he'll try to kill Palpatine, but Anakin will protect the Chancellor, believing him to be a good guy.

    Palpatine will use this to declare the Jedi the enemy - that they tried to assasinate the Supreme Chancellor and "killed" his protector (Skywalker). He'll call for them to be publically lynched (2 Jedi per planet, 5000 planets - The Great Jedi Purge). Obi-Wan will be blamed, not to mention Dooku, who'll take the rap for starting the Separatists' war. But the Jedi won't fight and kill civilians (even misguided ones) or they'll be turning to the Dark Side themselves. Most will have to choose to flee, thereby not interfering with the Empire until they make themselves known somehow, then Vader comes in and finishes them (in the time between movies).

    But Yoda is too smart to kill Palpatine outright, without evidence. They are playing that old chess game, just like Magneto and Xavier.

    Mace and Dooku ("Too arrogant. Yes this is becoming more and more common, even amongst the older, more experienced Jedi" - Yoda was not referring to Obi-Wan, but to Mace. He already knows Mace went out of line and caused him trouble. "No he DID NOT have the authorization of the Jedi Council." But what about one unorthodox member, Master Windu?)


    THAT GOES SOMETHING LIKE THIS:

    Mace & Dooku discover that Syfo-Dias had become involved with the Sith (but was killed, or was in league with them, and Dooku killed him for revenge for Qui-Gon - something like that). But Dooku learned that the Kaminoans had already been contracted. He had Jango under his thumb and used him as the source for the Clones. Not evil themselves, the Clones could be used to mop up the Separatist seeds that Palpatine had himself started (as Sidious) by making those like the Trade Federation oppose the Republic. Meanwhile, after giving the Jedi this resource (they could tap in the future when they "publically" discovered it - as Mace knows), and after discovering that his son was no longer safe on Tatooine (under the distant protection of Aurra Sing, also a Dooku-recruit), Dooku leaves so as to not interfere with Anakin's training, or cause his sudden appearance in the boy's life to be disruptive (as in "Why did you leave Mom?") So Dooku has to move fast. He gains the allegiance of the very instruments Palpatine is using: the Trade Federation and other Separatists. Now while he gets closer to the Dark Lord and promises him this excuse for war, so the Sith Master can take control of the Clones, Dooku himself gets command of the Separatists, and could use them to wipe out the Republic's forces himself -even if he then intends to restore the Republic (no matter what he told the Separatists his intentions were). Dooku can play it either way. Palpatine knows this, but Dooku learned too late perhaps, that Sidious was Palpatine, and now the stakes are higher, because the Sith Lord is the legally elected ruler of the Republic. And he also knows who Dooku's son is. Dooku will have to make some compromises to keep him safe.

    (in the comics, even with Durge and Ventress from "Clone Wars," the Separatists are UNDER ORDERS not to touch Obi-Wan and Anakin, that is let them survive! Dooku's orders, to be exact. Why is that?)

    Anakin will have to make the same compromise: Serve Palpatine as Darth Vader, in order for Palpatine to let Obi-Wan leave in exile to raise Anakin's son. Palpatine figures he can deal with that later - if they cause him trouble like costing him a Death Star or something. Hence why Luke Skywalker's name is not changed, and he's brought up in such an obvious place to look for him.

    In any case, Obi-Wan and Anakin know none of this, but Anakin delivers a mortal blow to Dooku (in effect killing a twisted, but still good guy - and his father!) Before Dooku dies, Anakin will rush off to try and save Padme (from the first time we think she'll die - and as pregnant as Laci Peterson). Meanwhile, Dooku will tell Obi-Wan what I just explained, hence why Obi-Wan tries to kill Palpatine (exactly what Yoda did not want to have happen - but Obi-Wan is emotionally invested because Anakin ran back to Palpatine because he thought Palpatine was protecting Padme for him while he was off in the Wars). Seeing Obi-Wan as a liar (no really) who never told him about Dooku before he damned himself by killing his own father, and never being allowed to save his mother (or marry and save Padme and his unborn child - didn't know there were twins of course), Anakin sees Palpatine as his last friend, and the legal Chancellor, fights Obi-Wan, only to learn the truth as Palpatine taunts the 2 combatants much like he did Luke and Vader in ROTJ. Anakin gives up and allows himself to be destroyed (only to wake up as Vader, and learn that Padme lived, and that he has to make a deal with Palpatine to let Obi-Wan go and keep Luke to raise him as he raised Anakin after Qui-Gon died).

    It all makes sense to me.
    BAD Pts Need: R5-C7 lf leg (x2), , R4-P44 right leg BAD Pts Offered For Trade: PM me - I have lots of parts now including BG-J38!. New Kyle Katarn is also available.

  3. #23
    Originally posted by zeroplate
    well, for what it's worth, here would be my take on it:

    The Jedi are arrogant and stoic to a fault. The whole idea of having no connections to people, the emotional detachment, and the Jedi playing the role of the 'old world' religious leaders all points to them as being severly flawed. What makes Luke different from the Jedi that have gone before him is that he places more value on the lives of his friends and family than he does on the Jedi code of behavior and training. Anakin does the same thing, but obviously loses the battle to stay good (and we don't know how yet.) Luke wins that battle (and ultimately, Vader does too I guess) and Luke shows that you have to have a balance between these high-minded ideals that the Jedi stand for and a more basic connection to the people around you.

    It's not enough to just be connected to the whole universe through the force-- it's a case of seeing the whole and not the parts. The Jedi to me are painted in a very negative light. Sure, they are great warriors and they are revered, learned people, but they are unable to see what's going on with Palpatine because they are too stuck in their old ways. They believe that the Jedi order and the rules surrounding it should always conquer all, but in truth, they are lacking what most humans would consider very basic human qualities.

    If you look at Star Wars as a mythic story arc, it's kind of a classic tale of the old, established powers-that-be crumbling under their own failure to grow and change. Anakin and Luke represent varied attempts at changing with time and bringing more humanity and empathy and love to the Jedi order.

    If you follow out the logic of Yoda's warnings to Luke, then Luke should not confront Vader and the emperor, should not help his friends, and should stay with Yoda to complete his training. Well, in the end, obviously Luke made the right choice, which meant that Yoda was wrong. Of course, you could always say Yoda was telling Luke what he needed to hear, but the films don't support that. After Luke leaves, Yoda is concerned that he is going to fail... so obvioulsy he wasn't using reverse pyschology.

    So, that's it. There's no reason for Palpatine and Sidious to be two different people, and in fact, this is a case where everything points to them being the same person and that conclusion makes the most sense. In the larger scale of the story, the idea that Palpatine is just a clone doesn't help. What we need to see is the fall of the Jedi not at the hands of one sith, but under the weight of their own lack of forsight. And that's what I think we'll see.
    I like it!! I don't agree with it all, but I like it. Good counter argument!

    J

  4. #24

    Question

    Wow! Lots of wishful thinking out there. I have one questions for a few of you. Some of you seem to think that Anakin is Dooku or Palypatines son. How do you explain that?

    But Shmi clearly said in E1 that there was no father?! Hmmmm . . .

  5. #25

  6. #26
    Originally posted by Jedi Teacher
    Wow! Lots of wishful thinking out there. I have one questions for a few of you. Some of you seem to think that Anakin is Dooku or Palypatines son. How do you explain that?

    But Shmi clearly said in E1 that there was no father?! Hmmmm . . .
    She just doesn't want to admit she went slummin', that's all

    I think it's just about a given that SOMEONE is Anakin's father. I've always leaned toward Palpatine, but Dooku is a plausible choice too.

    Just going from what we know about Lucas' love for religious undertones and the "good vs. evil" fight, I think someone big being Anakin's father is as much of a "gimme" for EP3 as someone, somewhere getting his/her hand chopped off is a "gimme" for EP3.

    J

  7. #27
    I voted mostly.

    god, it would be great to see the formation of the "New Order". Tarkin kicking some *** subduing a system, Veers on a ground mission, guest apprearance by Thrawn controlling the space around a rogue planet, these guys are the greatest and deserve some screen time.

    Getting away from the continual focus on the despotic jedi and that "hokey religion" would be such a welcome.

    Having the New Order appear and kick some *** for Palpatine would also help tie in the prequels as they could bridge the end of the Old Republic and the rise of the Empire.

    Giving me more Imperials!!!!

  8. #28
    Originally posted by Tycho
    Dooku will be revealed to be Anakin's father. I hope. It pushes him to think the Jedi hid that from him and let him murder his own father, plus didn't let him save his mother, or Padme (who he thinks died while pregnant until later, as Vader, he realizes he was wrong about that, and makes a deal with Obi-Wan to raise his son).
    I agree with almost everything you said there Tycho, except for that one. I'm hoping Anakin's father will not be revealed because IMO it will strengthen the "I am your father" scene in ESB, plus I also kinda like the virgin birth story.

    I don't think everything will the tied with the OT. I think alot will, but there will be the odd little thing that won't.

    PENDO!
    "You were my brother, Anakin. I loved you!" - Obi-Wan Kenobi
    "There's a gentleness about a total Star Wars geek that is sublime."- Rick McCallum
    My DVD Collection

  9. #29
    Sadly there's no way that Fett will kill Mace, though I think it'd be cool if he did (giving Vader reason to say the "no disintegrations" line to him in ESB). I'm pretty sure that Sam Jackson has said that the only way he wants Mace to go down is if Vader kills him. Plus, while it would be kind of cool to see, itís doubtful that a 12-year-old Fett could take down Mace unless A) he let him Obi Wan style or B) he didn't know he was coming (which being a Jedi isn't likely to happen). Also, does anybody else think that the brown cape Boba wears in ESB is possibly part of Mace's cloak?

  10. #30
    I agree with Pendo. Tycho, everything you said sounds great except for someone being revealed as Anakin's father. The other plot elements sound awesome!!
    I voted "pretty much". And I am hoping that Anakin does not have a father. That would be stupid to have another "I am your father" scene. It would downplay the scene in ESB. (Like Pendo said).
    One way to out think people is to make them think you think they'll think what you are not really trying to get them to think what you think.

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