View Poll Results: Will Lucas tie the gap between the trilogies with Episode Three?

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  • Yes, completely.

    99 16.31%
  • Pretty much.

    237 39.04%
  • Not completely.

    232 38.22%
  • Not at all.

    39 6.43%
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  1. #71
    Registered Tycho's Avatar
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    Jeffonthego: That was beautiful. I so completely agree!

    Mini-rock: thanks for your compliments on my take on how it all happens. I think Jeffonthego added to Anakin's psychology and philosophical state of mind for these occurences, but the emotional drive to "save everybody" (running after Mom and then Obi-Wan in AOTC, then Obi-Wan again and finally Padme in E3) will be the emotional straw that breaks his back. Together, these elements combined, as perfectly stated in Jeff's post above, will create Darth Vader.

    Just know that I know NO spoilers. I can't confirm anything I put in my last expose above. I just think that it logically makes sense if it goes down that way, and we'll still preserve the punch in ESB for future generations who may watch these movies in Episode Order.

    The only thing it denies the fans is learning who built the Darth Vader suit, and who or what (droid?) physically put Anakin into it, and what on him is mechanical (in addition to his lungs on ventilators and his bionic right arm - these could be it alone, too, you know. The point is WE don't know yet. Only George really does. And making Vader more and more mechanical is not really important to the story. So it'll likely never be shown, so read your books my friends, and keep enjoying them for years to come. (Del Rey, Dark Horse, Scholastic, and DK will certainly enjoy their profits for years to come - I'd garauntee that!)
    BAD Pts Need: R5-C7 lf leg (x2), , R4-P44 right leg BAD Pts Offered For Trade: PM me - I have lots of parts now including BG-J38!. New Kyle Katarn is also available.

  2. #72
    When I spoke of Anakin being drawn to Palpatine, I was talking more about his final decision to join the in Vader drawn to the Emperor more. I agree that Anakin does seek order to a large extent, and the desire for order can certainly lead to Despots and Dictatorships. But I still think he is more driven by his personal needs, emotional ones....those shortcomings are what prevent him for staying true to the Jedi, and turning towards the Sith. If they show a more mature Anakin truly making his decisions based on a desire for order, and to replace an archaic, failing system in Ep III...that would make him more noble and less of an emotional kid acting out, or having been manipulated to act out.

    Tycho's ideas are interesting. If Lucas did leave a shroud of mystery about Vader's identity at the end of III, it would preserve the TESB revelation scene. I just don't think Lucas will do that. As far as Obi-Wan having another Padawan, I guess if he took the padawan of a dead master, to finish his training...I could see that. I tend to think Anakin was and will be Obi-Wan's lone apprentice until Luke though. I do agree that Anakin will feel lost, alone, betrayed...and that will fuel his dark side tendencies more and lead him to becoming Darth Vader.

  3. #73
    Registered Tycho's Avatar
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    In society, a great percentage of crime is committed by juveniles who feel betrayed or alienated by the rest of society.

    Anakin will exhibit ALL of the characteristics discussed in the great posts by many people above, but don't discount the part of him that is the inexperienced, immature, and emotional little brat that whines, "it's not fair!" No life is never 'fair,' especially to a struggling adolescent (which is a lot of people under THIRTY (30) who are trying to adjust to life after they leave the nest.

    So that Anakin begins to succumb to his anger and starts into a "thug life" is also noteworthy.

    But I don't think he'll consciously decide to just join the Sith.

    Timothy McVeigh didn't consciously decide to join the Crips or the Bloods or something like that. Nor did he join Iraq's Republican Guard. He took matters into his own hands and started down a dark path by himself.

    Anakin will do likewise, but be trapped by Palpatine, who is looking at a much larger picture. Protecting Anakin's son will force him to accept succumbing to Palpatine's orders (not to mention all the trust the Chancellor has built up with Anakin over the past 12 years (over half his life!) while he notes the Jedi have inhibited him from saving Padme and his mother, plus lied to him about his father (to hide Dooku) until it was too late for Anakin to change anything and have the love of his family again.

    Then it is no wonder why Luke Skywalker motivates Darth Vader's good side. Luke is all Anakin has left of himself, of his own identity. And he knew he was sacraficing his own life for his family when he turned on Palpatine in ROTJ. It makes that scene so much more powerful! (I'm a big fan of the Final Jedi Duel again these days).

    One more thing: why Anakin would let Obi-Wan escape:

    1) Obi-Wan has Luke with him when Vader catches up to them.

    2) Luke can be raised either by the man that raised Anakin (Obi-Wan) out in exile where Anakin grew up himself (on Tatooine) or he can be raised by the Sith in the middle of a war to dominate the galaxy. Where would you choose to send your INFANT off-spring? Who would protect him: a Sith Lord or a Jedi Master that personally raised you?

    3) Darth Vader will know he made a mistake in turning on Obi-Wan. He does not hate Obi-Wan, but MUST serve Palpatine. Almost all of it has to do with keeping Luke safe. In crime families, what does the Godfather do to keep his men from cheating him, or offing him? He threatens his underlings' families. Ah.....
    Last edited by Tycho; 05-08-2003 at 11:38 AM.
    BAD Pts Need: R5-C7 lf leg (x2), , R4-P44 right leg BAD Pts Offered For Trade: PM me - I have lots of parts now including BG-J38!. New Kyle Katarn is also available.

  4. #74
    The one thing that makes more sense to me more now then it did at the time ROTJ first came out is why Vader would feel for Luke or why his goodness would resurface after all the terrible things he did and/or allow to happen. Luke and Anakin are similar, and faced many of the same choices. Luke chose wisely more times than not, and Anakin did not. It is absolutely true that Anakin (as Vader) sees himself in Luke: what he was and maybe even more so, what he could have been. That makes his return to the light side believable now, when for a long time I never could accept how someone who betrayed so much of who he was and so many people close to him could turn back for a son he never knew he had.

  5. #75
    I think GL will completely cover all the bases with EIII. He did say, after all, that he was going to treat the prequels as one very long movie. E-I introducing the characters and how they relate, E-II setting the stage for the Clone Wars, and E-III the fall of Anakin to the Dark Side and the destruction of the Jedi.

    That said, I love Tycho's idea of a second Obi apprentice, but I have another suggestion for how Anakin turns.

    After learning of Anakin's marriage to Padme, Anakin is kicked out of the Jedi Order. Anakin, knowing that the child Padme is carrying will certainly be powerful with the force (what with all the mitachlorian genes Anakin has...), he asks Obi-Wan to take his lightsaber and train his child as a Jedi, and do what he could not. Thus tying in the ANH gift from father to Luke through Obi-Wan. They then part as friends.

    However, a Clone War is still raging, moving from planet to planet, eventually ending up in Anakin's and Padme's home of Naboo. Obi-Wan comes to Anakin and asks for his help in the fighting, Anakin goes and takes a saber from a fallen Jedi. When it appears as though the Republic has won Anakin and Obi-Wan return back towards Anakin's home.

    Dooku, far from defeated, follows them, to put them down for good. Attempting to crush them with some giant pillar or wall as he had almost successfully done in AOTC, they move out of the way. Unfortunately, a joyous Padme rushing to greet them appears to be killed. As Dooku flees, Anakin now is full of anger and hate for Dooku, and despite Obi-Wan's urging races after him.

    Anakin's anger is even more heightened after losing the only person he was ever in love with, and his mother, and feeling powerless to stop it. This ties in to what Anakin said in AOTC after he buries his mother and says that he will become powerful enough to keep people from dying.

    Dooku is followed back to Sidious/Palpatine by Anakin. As they are confronted Palpatine convinces Anakin of his friendship and that Dooku should be held responsible for the death of Padme. It is the constant desire of the master and apprentice in the Sith to almost bide time with one another, that the apprentice tries to become powerful enought to be the master, and that the master always seeks a new apprentice. Anakin listens to Palpatine and kills Dooku and turns to the Dark Side.

    Back on Naboo Obi-Wan finds that Padme is still alive and not dead. He takes her to Alderaan and Bail Oragana, her strongest ally, to heal and haver her children.

    Anakin, unaware of Padme's health, is convinced by Palpatine that Obi-Wan also shares blame for Anakin's misfortune and lost loved ones, as it was he who kept Anakin from being with his mother during his training, and it was his ask for help of Anakin in the battle that ultimately set in motion the the events leading to Padme's death.

    The two former friends meet, with Obi-Wan having victory, but finding himself unable to destroy Anakin. Knowing now that Anakin has turned, and feeling partly responsible he leaves him injured but not dead. With the growing possibility that Anakin will one day find that Padme is alive and has had children he goes to take them and hide them.

    Padme does die several months after childbirth and Obi-Wan decides to take the boy with him to the remote Tatooine to be raised by the Lars' and to be watched over and protected by Obi-Wan, and Leia will remain on Alderaan under the protection of Bail Organa. Thus leading us into ANH.

    Just a long drawn out thought.

  6. #76
    That very good. It would make Obi-Wan's statement to Luke about the saber true, not just another "Point of View" things. And it would also explain why Anakin never knew he had children, though he should have probably known his wife was pregnant at some point.

  7. #77
    Hey, I've got an idea!

    Since none of us have no control (or an idea) what so ever over what GL is going to do... Why don't we just wait for the movie to come out. Read a book in the meantime!

    “That is not what the Empire would have done, Commander. What the Empire would have done was build a super colossal Yuuzhan Vong-killing battle machine. They would have called it the Nova Colossus or the Galaxy Destructor or the Nostril of Palpatine or something equally grandiose. They would have spent billions of credits, employed thousands of contractors and subcontractors, and equipped it with the latest in death-dealing technology. And you know what would have happened? It wouldn’t have worked. They’d forget to bolt down a metal plate over an access hatch leading to the main reactors, or some other mistake, and a hotshot enemy pilot would drop a bomb down there and blow the whole thing up. Now that’s what the Empire would have done”
    - Han Solo to Commander Vana Dorja in “Destiny’s Way” by Walter Jon Williams

  8. #78
    The way I see it, as soon as the Jedi find out about Anakin having a family on the side, they're going to boot him out of the Order. Upon which, Palpatine invites Anakin to become his right-hand man.

    And as for that "already filmed" scene, I have a theory about that... I recall hearing that while Episode I was shooting, Alec Guiness visited the set for a few days. What if he shot a final scene for Episode III?

    By the way - I read most of the posts in this thread before posting this but not all, so if anyone else has already come up with this stuff, it's entirely by coincidence.

    - Joe!

    It's Totally Free... It's Funny... What Are You Waiting For?

  9. #79
    I still have to disagree with those that feel that Dooku was really a good guy trying to destroy the sith from within. Who would Yoda kill so that "that cave is strong with the dark side of the force." ? Also, at the end of AOTC, yoda says, "joined the dark side Dooku has. Lies, deceit..." Yes, deceit and lies. He was a liar when he told Kenobi that stuff! (Jinn would have joined him, join me Obi-Wan and together we can destroy the sith.) <-- This doesn't make sense because Dooku IS a dark side Sith. He only wanted to try to convert Kenobi to the dark side then probably try to destroy Sidious so that it would be him and kenobi as master and apprentice. It would hurt the story if he turned out to be "good guy" trying to destroy the sith from inside. Just my opinion.
    One way to out think people is to make them think you think they'll think what you are not really trying to get them to think what you think.

  10. #80
    He was a liar possibly...but he did tell Obi-Wan the truth about Sidious and the Trade Federation. He told Obi-Wan the truth if for no other reason than that he knew Obi would naturally disbelieve him. Obi-Wan would expect him to lie, so he tells him the truth and throws him a curve.


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