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  1. #1

    Psychological Battles-Luke Vs. Vader

    I was watching Return of the Jedi yesterday, and was rather struck by the scene where Luke is presented to Vader near the landing platform. In that, Luke really seems to put psycological pressure on Vader, and is winning the battle. What he says about his father, hoe he feels good in him, and says he couldn't be turned, affects Vader tremendoulsy. Vader responds by (1)denying it, "there is conflict," (2) changing the subject "I see you have constructed a new lightsaber," (3) giving up, "there is no hope for me," and (4) changing the subject "the emperor is your master now." and then at the end of the scene, he kind of sighs and looks out the window contemplating.

    I think Luke clearly had the upper hand in that "battle" and that was the most intriguing "battle" of the film.

    Any thoughts
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  2. #2
    I liked that scene a great deal. It made you think about what's been going through Darth's head ever since the Bespin duel in ESB, and Darth's double take when the Falcon jumped to light speed taking his son away. I though it was a very good continuation of those earlier Bespin glimpses into his soul. Clearly from the look of ... regret? frustration? ... that Darth gave when the Falcon escaped, you could tell that some of Darth's motivation in Bespin was to have his son at his side, not purely to turn him to the dark side for evil purposes. And on the Endor moon, that became even more clear - Darth was showing that he was weary of being alone ... that he wanted to connect with the only person that might still have a reason or desire to connect with him ... yet he was struggling, knowing that he was trapped with the Emporer, and that now his son was trapped. Between Prowse's body language, and Jones' voice, Darth Vader came alive on Bespin and Endor, and in my opinion perfectly heralded the inevitable, and necessary, reversion to humanity in the throne room duel.
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  3. #3
    I think Luke had brought some power to bear upon Vader's soul there, but Vader was able to turn it against him later during their battle pretty strongly, so ultimately I'd say that Vader really had the upper hand and chose to let in some of what Luke was saying.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "In Brooklyn, a castle, is where dwell I"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  4. #4
    I like your summary Arrogant Arse. It all culminated in what is probably my favorite shot sequence in the saga when we see a close up of Vader's mask as Luke is getting the snot kicked out of him. Somehow, Prowse (from behind the mask) and Alan Hume (Director of Photography) managed to actually portray genuine emotion in a static object. I have to say that I was really impressed then with that technical and artistic achievement which actually showed us the angst that Vader was going through, and I'm just as impressed even today.

  5. #5
    I loved that scene where Luke is presented to Vader and they have the psycological confrontation. It is very strong and starts what I feel is the turning point that eventually turns Vader back to the good side. Being a Father, as many of you are, that stands out to me as one of the strongest scenes in the trilogy.

    BTW, I cried like a baby when Luke had the "funeral" burning of his fathers remains.
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  6. #6
    I can remember either Cracked or Mad magazine did one of their skits on that scene.. depicting Luke holding a Happy Fathers Day card behind his back.. too funny...

    and yes, a GREAT scene from the movie.. you knew it took a hit at Vader. I thought so anyway.

    and while watching ROTJ in the theater, some girl started wailing when they burned him on the pyre at the end... I couldve strangled her...

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  7. #7
    Yes that was a great scene. As Stillakid pointed out, you could almost see the emotion on Vaders face. Yes JT, Vader had the upper hand in the throne room with the head games, but Luke controlled himself after the outburst and really got to Anakin when he was being electrocuted. So Luke eventually won the mind manipulation aspect of it.
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  8. #8
    I have been told that the last of the trials that a Jedi must do is face the darkside and conquer its temptation.

    But yes, that scene has to be one of the best out of the entire triliogy. Why can't Lucas capture that magic again!!!!!!!!!
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  9. #9
    Anader/Vadikin probably turned to the Dark Side to avenge either Shmi's/Padme's/other person's death (just my opinion), which in the mind of a 10-year old (where Anakin's maturity seems to have been stunted) would be pretty noble and honorable. I believe that Vader in that scene realized that there were other ways to be honorable besides strength, power, or angry emotions. Anakin, for all his abilities, seems to be a follower, looking for strong role models (i.e. Palpatine, Qui-Gon) who felt that ends justify the means. Luke doesn't feel that way, and this creates doubt in Vader as to if he made the right choice.

    Look and Vader's threats: Now we captured you, aha (Uh, Luke let them capture him)!
    Well, I'm gonna cut you with your own weapon (Luke isn't scared).
    Okay, then the most evil man in the galaxy will deal with you (Luke is fine with that).
    You'll end up an evil, corrupted Sith Lord like me (Luke thinks there's still a "good" Anakin inside Vader).
    Um, then, uh, take him away! (Luke could care less).

    Score: Vader 1 (Bespin), Luke 1 (Endor), with the rubber match scheduled for the Death Star, winner-take-all!
    'It is always nice to see you, says the Besalisk at the counter... And instead I pour blue milk...' From "Dex's Diner" by Su-San Vega

  10. #10
    Originally posted by kidhuman
    Yes JT, Vader had the upper hand in the throne room with the head games, but Luke controlled himself after the outburst and really got to Anakin when he was being electrocuted.
    "Outburst"?!? You make it sound like Luke threw a tantrum and then sulked in the corner - Luke was totally being bashed around emotionally by both Vader and the Emp, and when Vader pushed the "sister" button, Luke snapped and attacked his father with such hatred, anger, and rage that he took the old man's hand clear off - that's more than a outburst. It's only through the Emperor's sick goading that causes Luke to stop and recognize the shock of what he's done and how his path is now so similar to his father's.

    Luke gives in to the hatred and rage, Luke slips towards the dark side to defeat Vader and it takes a lot to pull him back from the brink.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "In Brooklyn, a castle, is where dwell I"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

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