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  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by JediTricks
    BTW, B5 rules right up until season 5 when TNT totally screwed up the show.
    I couldn't agree with you more on this point. The series should have ended after the 4th season.

    One other comparison to B5 I'd like to make is the complete lack of emotion in Star Trek. I will admit that the ST movies have captured this rather well at points, Spock and David (Kirk's son) deaths come to mind but the T.V. show IMO never has. Just once I would like to see a character sacrifice themself for the greater good like JT said much like Sheridan did when he jumped to his death at the end of the 3rd season of B5. I can't think of a single scene from any ST series that had that sort of emotional impact.
    Talk Show Host Interviewing Joker: Your said to have only killed about 600 people Joker. Now dont take this the wrong way but I think youve been holding out on us.

    Joker: I dont keep count. Im going to kill everyone in this room.

  2. #12
    Lt Yar died in TNG but it wasn't really sad but made for a rather awkward funeral ceremony than involved Wessley Crusher. The upshot was that she appeared in Playboy about that time.
    "No one helped me so why should I help you?" - College professor circa 1999

    By choosing not to decide you still have made a choice.

    I'm in love with the women of Univision.

  3. #13
    As Guinan referred to in "Yesterday's Enterprise": It was a senseless death. Denise Crosby thought she had talent and wanted to not get caught up in the Trek thing, so she bailed only to find out that she didn't.

    The theme song, while a nice copy of the version sung by Rod Stewart for the movie Patch Adams, has a nice message but is missing the drive that Trek needs. Even Voyager got the opening themesong and credits right, but Enterprise seems to be too caught up in the production values to notice that the heart isn't quite there... what a shocker coming from Rick Berman.

    Hellboy, I disagree about the emotion issue, I think in TNG, there was some emotion that came off very powerfully, but much of it involved duty, honor, loss, adventure, and respect - they'd feel something and then because they were professional starship crewmembers, they'd move the hell on instead of wallowing. And because they didn't exist just within the time frame of the show but beyond, the emotions they felt and expressed and then buried didn't alter them in major ways because they were already fleshed-out characters. How many times can T'pol have a change of heart before it gets old? How many lessons do we have to see Archer learn that shape his psyche from then on? I know these guys are supposed to be "the first Trek", but they're not supposed to be Data from TNG, blank slate children who have no emotional backgrounds and are learning everything for the first time.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "In Brooklyn, a castle, is where dwell I"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  4. #14
    It's hard to compare the higher emotions of B5 with anything that any ST episode can generate. Nearly all the ST plot lines are wrapped up in one 1 hour episode where as B5 took numerous episodes to address one issue. It might be interesting if they decided to change the format of Star Trek to something similar to B5. Ok, a war is on the horizon, draw it out in detail over one or more seasons.

    Yeah, Denise Crosby disappeared almost completely after she left the show. She made an appearance soon after in the brief show, Models Inc. I believe it was called. Well that was killed pretty quick thankfully so she returned to TNG as the Romulan love child. Gosh was that lame. That move just screamed "Please let me back in, I'm sorry I thought I was a big enough star to go onto other projects." After a few token episodes of that she was gone for good. I don't recall seeing her again until Deep Impact which again was a brief/secondary role.

    I think she produced that Star Trek documentery, "Trekkies." I heard it was a pretty good movie but I've never seen it.
    "No one helped me so why should I help you?" - College professor circa 1999

    By choosing not to decide you still have made a choice.

    I'm in love with the women of Univision.

  5. #15
    They tried to copy B5's style with DS9, first the whole show was ripped off from B5 (B5 was pitched to Paramount who turned it down and supposedly within days came up with the "idea" of a Trek show on a space station) and then again when they had the multi-season Dominion war plotline. Neither were anywhere near as successful IMO, due in large part to Trek being run by a committee headed by hopeless Rick Berman while B5 was completely 1 person's baby. I'm not saying DS9 wasn't good mind you, just not as good as B5.


    I think Sci-Fi is a bit overrun with serious emotion-driven shows right now, if TOS were released today it would be a serious departure from that while still distancing itself from Saturday afternoon shows like Mutant X and Andromeda (which I both like, but they're fluff). Enterprise was supposed to be a departure from modern Trek, maybe they should have taken a departure from that sort of "serious story telling" and gone with a more casual, exciting TOS feel like they promised.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "In Brooklyn, a castle, is where dwell I"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  6. #16
    I forgot about DS9 and the Dominion War which tells you how often I watched the show. I don't know what it was but it wasn't nearly as driving as B5 was. At the end of each B5 episode I was counting the days till the next one. I could go weeks without watching DS9 and feel like I didn't miss anything.

    A good way to test the waters for Enterprise would be a 2 hour special episode that was this writing style departure you're talking about JT. I think most show writers are hesitant to make a drastic change knowing they would have to live with it for the rest of the season. A "one off" episode would allow them to try some new stuff and see if it floats. From what I've read they read the internet buzz quite a bit for the show so they could get some direct feed back on some of the changes and incorporate them later.
    "No one helped me so why should I help you?" - College professor circa 1999

    By choosing not to decide you still have made a choice.

    I'm in love with the women of Univision.

  7. #17
    I have sadly watched the decline of Star Trek over the course of the last 15 years. Some observations:

    1. The TNG movies were awful. They were never as good as the best of the series' shows. When I was a kid, Star Trek movies were event pictures for Paramount, and they poured resources into them. These days, the budget is a lot smaller and the effects are shoddy. Watch ST: TMP and Nemesis. The optical effects for TMP in many places look much better than the CGI in Nemesis. Part of it has to do with Models versus CGI. I happen to think the old Enterprise model looks better than the computer made E.

    2. The creative team has clearly run out of ideas. Again, Nemesis was a poor man's Wrath of Khan, except the McGuffin in Khan was the supercool Genesis device, whereas in Nemesis it was some contrived lame radiation.

    3. there is no way to measure up to TOS. It is simply a different world today. But they could at least try to make it progressive. Remember the first interracial kiss on television? TOS truly did go where no one had gone before.

    4. I wish the new show were the ongoing adventures of the Excelsior. Captain Sulu and the gang would have been fun to watch, and I know Takei would have been all for it.
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  8. #18
    I would have liked to see a show about the Excelsior and Captain Sulu. Yeah! Takei would have done it too!
    "Maybe I can help you. I am Boba Fett. The ship you seek is nearby." -Boba Fett

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayspawn
    I would have liked to see a show about the Excelsior and Captain Sulu. Yeah! Takei would have done it too!
    Trying to get this into production is what led Nimoy to have a loud argument with Berman who had Nimoy ejected from the Paramount lot. Berman needs to be fed to the ducks.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "In Brooklyn, a castle, is where dwell I"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  10. #20
    Whats this JT? Berman ejected Nimoy? I've not heard of this. What was it over?
    "Maybe I can help you. I am Boba Fett. The ship you seek is nearby." -Boba Fett

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