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  1. #621

    Re: Upcoming Marvel Figures (Large List)

    It's new garbage? Yeesh. I asked the proprietor of my comic shop (in tears, I might add, due to my highly distraught mood after I saw the ad for AOA) what possessed them to continue that tripe, and he said it was just reprints. I guess he was trying to keep me from losing all faith in humanity and simply running out into traffic. Now, you have destroyed all my hopes for the future of mankind, JJB. Thanks a lot.

    Sales numbers do not translate into quality. AOA sucked. Nothing good came of it. Period.

    X-Force #1 (the original) is still one of the largest sellers in comic history. And one of the worst. I can probably get you about a hundred copies at a nickel apiece if you're interested.

    Other large sellers that sucked in new and unique ways include Youngblood #1 (the highest selling independent comic of all time, unless the next contender beat it), Dreamwave's Transformers Generation One #1, and the Onslaught and Spider-Clone fiascos. Any of those can turn the stomachs of even the most rabid comic book fan.

    The variant covers (which are still going on, sadly enough), chase versions (again, still going on), and other gimmicks were symptomatic of the real problem, though I agree they certainly didn't help things. A certain group of people (who moved on to Beanie Babies and now seem infatuated with Hot Wheels) learned that comics could be worth money, and the emphasis went from telling good stories with compelling art to throwing as many bones to investors as possible. We (as readers) went from stories like Green Lantern: Emerald Dawn and David Michelinie's early Venom stories in Amazing Spider-Man, two of the greatest comic stories of all time, to guest-star laden gimmick/fluff garbage without any real point like X-Cutioner's Song and Age of Apocalypse in less than five years. That's what chased the bulk of readers away, and once they were gone, the investors had no possible windfalls to look forward to. And that's what killed the industry.
    Tommy, close your eyes.

  2. #622

    Re: Upcoming Marvel Figures (Large List)

    A few good things came of the original AOA. Dark Beast was one of them. So was Blink.

    MTFBWY and HH!!

    Jar Jar Binks
    THE SPY. THE SPACEMAN. THE GODDESS. THE ROBOT. THE GORILLA.

    AGENTS OF ATLAS - Returns in Early 2009.

  3. #623

    Re: Upcoming Marvel Figures (Large List)

    No sightings of wave 9 in Canada yet, from what I've seen and/or read. That out of the way, I can now attack what I perceive as the "meat" of this thread currently - the reason for the downturn of the comic industry in the early 1990s.

    JJB - you state that your opinion is that "variant covers and stuff" created the downfall. I'll expand on that a little: rising paper costs and those deluxe/chase/variant editions of comics that had little to no story value (but in some cases very pretty art) drove the price of the average comic well above that of the average chocolate bar or bottle of pop.

    Chux - you claim that the stories of the era were less than stellar, in your opinion.

    Don't you guys see that you're riding the same horse in different directions? The problem was in the value of the comics themselves - and I don't mean the aftermarket, scalper prices of those variant editions back in the day. I mean that $4 for a copy of Youngblood (or insert any other over-hyped, over-expensive and underproduced piece of metallic bound toilet paper in here) wasn't even close to worth it. That's what killed the industry.

    My personal opinion is that some of those stories weren't so bad. I liked AOA, and bought lots of extra comics to see what happened therein. I also liked Spawn, but not a heck of a lot else from the original Image line - the art rocked and the stories were gritty and well thought out.

    Greed killed comics in the 1990s, regardless of what your particular pet peeve with the books themselves was. Too many comics with too many "Epic Crossovers", too many gimmicks and cover prices that were through the roof ALL contributed to people getting out en masse.

    ASIDE: Oh, sorry.... I didn't explain the chocolate bar thing very well now did I? Here's what I meant. If little Johnny comes to find mom with Amazing Spider-Man in one hand and a Snickers in the other, what will mom say? "$4 for a comic book? I don't think so." She'll make him put it back and buy him the chocolate bar, sure as stink. There's a genuine gap at the "entry level" (new reader stuff) of comics being produced, and it's the gap that will continue to kill our hobby. When we're 80, they'll still be making comics for us. They've missed the boat on at least 3 or 4 generations already by making comics to mature and expensive. Whether or not that was long enough to kill the hobby remains to be seen; my belief is that it was.
    GOLDEN DEUCE AWARD WINNER & MABUCON ATTENDEE 2008

  4. #624

    Re: Upcoming Marvel Figures (Large List)

    You make some good points there jjreason. I'll just chime in and say that I'm kinda glad that happened with the comics industry.

    All the variant covers and crap and other excessive stuff was getting way out of hand. I found myself spending $30 to $50 a week on comics (which was ridiculous). Now things are a bit more grounded in the comic world, and I really enjoy the few books that I still read.

    I'll also chime in and say that I really enjoyed AOA back then as well. Almost all other crossovers really sucked, but AOA was really enjoyable for me for some reason. Mabye it was the dark and gritty tone.... I dunno...

  5. #625

    Re: Upcoming Marvel Figures (Large List)

    I've been enjoying current comics myself though... but yeah, the 90's after around the end of AOA the comics industry died a horrible wheezing death that it's still not really recovered from. It is getting better again, has since 2001 or so.

    And as I said, AOA was great for things like Dark Beast, Blink, Sabretooth. But the current AOA series sucks on rocks. Avoid at all costs. The Exiles tie-in issues were good though.

    MTFBWY and HH!!

    Jar Jar Binks
    THE SPY. THE SPACEMAN. THE GODDESS. THE ROBOT. THE GORILLA.

    AGENTS OF ATLAS - Returns in Early 2009.

  6. #626

    Re: Upcoming Marvel Figures (Large List)

    Quote Originally Posted by Reefer Shark
    I'll also chime in and say that I really enjoyed AOA back then as well. Almost all other crossovers really sucked, but AOA was really enjoyable for me for some reason. Mabye it was the dark and gritty tone.... I dunno...
    I agree, I really enjoyed this series too. The dark tone was great and the unpredictability of the whole storyline kept me really intrigued. I liked how many of the core characters perished (something I wish there was more of in the real X-Men universe) and the whole thing had this impending doom feel to it. I was already reading all of the X-titles at the time so I wasn't forced into buying anything I wouldn't have already been buying in the first place. I'd rank it right up there with the Days of Future Past storyline.
    Talk Show Host Interviewing Joker: “Your said to have only killed about 600 people Joker. Now don’t take this the wrong way but I think you’ve been holding out on us.”

    Joker: “I don’t keep count. I’m going to kill everyone in this room.”

  7. #627

    Re: Upcoming Marvel Figures (Large List)

    Yes, very good points indeed, Master Reason. I guess it doesn't matter what causes it, when the perceived value of a comic (or any commodity) is less to a person than the cost, s/he won't buy it.

    I totally agree that there's a serious problem about getting new readers. Taking the greatest X-Man, throwing her in a garbage series with lousy art and story, using the justification that it's for kids, and still charging $2.50 or more for the crap is definitely not going to solve anything. I certainly wouldn't mind if we went back to the days of newsprint and cut the cost in half. Three dollars a comic is a bit steep. If they were cheaper, not only would kids be able to read them, many of us would be reading more than the handfuls we're reading.

    I will not concede and state that I liked AOA, though. I still think it was lousy. Decent premise, some great ideas regarding the characters, but horrid execution. It was not coincidence that I quit collecting comics altogether very shortly after that, and the X-Men titles were the first to go. Between them going from epic Claremont tales to epic crossovers not fit to use as toilet paper and GIJoe finally getting the axe, there didn't seem to be much left for me anymore.

    I'll just remain in the minority on AOA, thankyaverymuch.

    Thankfully Star Wars and the always enjoyable Mr Wayne changed my mind a couple of years later.
    Tommy, close your eyes.

  8. #628

    Re: Upcoming Marvel Figures (Large List)

    Well BBTS got their ML 9, and they have chase figures pretty cheap (for them anyway) I sent my payment over for my pre-order of 9. I cant wait to finally get Galactus.
    "It can't rain all the time."

    "Quote the Raven, Nevermore."

  9. #629

    Re: Upcoming Marvel Figures (Large List)

    I found the entire series last night at K-Mart! They even had the chase figures!

    Deathlok looks especially cool. I'm glad that, despite the bio and the images of the figure on the packaging, he's Deathlok II instead of that POS Deathlok I.

    I can't wait to assemble Galactus. I'm not quite sure about doing so yet, though, since they only had Green Hulk. I'm debating leaving him carded. Since he is supposed to be a specific 1st Appearance Hulk, I want the gray one.
    Tommy, close your eyes.

  10. #630

    Re: Upcoming Marvel Figures (Large List)

    Toy Biz's customer service website seems to have suffered a bit of an accident, as someone loaded a heap of figures into it that haven't even been confirmed yet. Take them all with salt of course, but there has to be a reason that they popped up on their site. Especially considering that it's an official site and not a fan one that just made a blunder. Most of them have been removed from the list, but someone was able to snag it.

    Future Figures Revealed:

    Maestro Hulk
    2009 Daredevil
    2099 Spiderman
    Annihlus
    Astonishing X-Men Wolverine
    Beta Ray Bill Thor
    Bishop
    Blackheart
    Captain Marvel
    Classic Captain Marvel (variant)
    Falcon
    Iron Fist
    Lady Deathstrike
    Loki
    LongShot
    Manwolf
    Powerman
    Psylocke
    Sasquach
    Spider-Woman
    Super Skull
    The Blob
    Wendigo
    X-23

    http://www.toybiz.com/cs.htm

    MTFBWY and HH!!

    Jar Jar Binks
    Last edited by Beast; 03-30-2005 at 08:10 PM.
    THE SPY. THE SPACEMAN. THE GODDESS. THE ROBOT. THE GORILLA.

    AGENTS OF ATLAS - Returns in Early 2009.

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