The new Star Wars movies

[keithfite]

This really has to do with all of the new trillogy, but I will post it here since TPM is first. I just wanted to ask, do any of you really enjoy the new movies. I hear so many people say how they dont like them. I personally love EP I and II and enjoy them way more than the original trilogy. I love the original trilogy, but the new movies have everything you ever wanted. In the old movies we all wanted to see more jedi, or know about the clone wars, and know the history of Darth Vader and now we do. and I enjoy these prequels way more, and think EPIII may be the best of them all when it comes out in 2005. I understand why many love the originals more, they grew up with them, and they are classic. But it seems everyone dosnt like the new ones. I just wondered if any of you are like me, and really love everything about these new movies. I would never knock the old ones. They are great. But I think these new ones are entertaining, and really fun. and just wondered what you all think. I have heard so much negative, I wondered if any of you liked em, or do you all hate em.

[stillakid]

I understand why many love the originals more, they grew up with them, and they are classic.

That statement underlines the misconception that many "prequel defenders" have about those who state that they haven't enjoyed the Prequels. It isn't that "we grew up with them" so ergo, we love them more, as if there was some magic line of demarcation or something. I, and others with whom I've spoken to about this, don't enjoy the Prequels as much because they are just poor films within themselves. It has very little to do with the original films at all. I could just as easily make comparisons to any other film made in the last decade. It doesn't matter. Good writing is good writing. And visa versa.

In fact, it would be far easier to just say, "well, the Prequels are put together just as well as the older ones, but I am overly nostalgic for my youth," but that's entirely innaccurate and it is a Red Herring which draws attention from the true reasons why people dislike the Prequels. There might easily have been a different chain of events which made the original films fraught with problems but made the Prequels superb beyond all previous Oscar winners.

So your question unfairly pits the OT against the Prequels as if this sense of "nostaglia" was what separated them.

[Beast]

I love the new films, equally or more so then the OT at the moment. The OT films I've seen hundreds of times (literally) and I have the dialogue and the scenes pretty well commited to memory. As for the NT, it's something new. As for why so many people seem to have issues with the PT, I still say it has to do with the large number of years between when us older folks saw the OT for the first time, and when we saw the PT.

We've lost that spark of innocent child-like wonder. The ability to just not rationalize what we've seen on screen. Even the newer generations are loosing their abilites to just enjoy movies as entertainment without picking them apart. Director's on Audio Commentaries for DVD's say the same thing. It's scary to see a 6 year old that critiques movies for being unrealistic. I go to a movie to suspend disbelief. It's called fantasy for a reason.

I also really enjoy the more complex storylines then the OT offered. Sure it gets a little wordy sometimes, but the political aspects are really engrossing. The writing for Palpatine manipulation, and all the other aspects that go along with his rise to power is one of my favorite parts of the entire saga as a whole. So is getting a peek at the Jedi when it was in it's glory years. Long before Palpatine's version of history, painted them as a 'Hokey Religion with Ancient Weapons'.

I can see how some people think they're more childish then the old films. But I don't see it. Both Trilogies had their screwball characters. And the prequels take place in a brighter time period then the OT. There wasn't this opressive Emperor in charge, spreading his evil through the galaxy. The Galaxy had enjoyed peace since the formation of the Republic. After all, to follow one of Old Obi-Wan's quotes from ANH: "It was before the dark times, before the Empire."

Once the Empire comes to power, you see massive changes in the entire galaxy. Everything is dark, used, there's no artistic love given to ship design anymore. It's just like the change that occured to how things were designed, after the 50's and 60's. Things became mass produced, so you lost a lot of artistry in designs. It became cold, metallic, built for function, and not for any other reason. I think it's very intresting to see the massive changes that twisted the galaxy in so short a time.

MTFBWY and HH!!

Jar Jar Binks

[gtrain29]

I'm glad you started this thread because there's lots of things I wanted to say about PT vs OT.
I've bashed the PT a lot, but I still own them and watch them as much as the OT. So, I had to think what it was that sets them apart.

I believe the acting, writing, and directing of the PT are inferior to what we saw in the OT.
It's the actors' jobs to project a believable character to the audience. But examples of this are few in the PT. I know the OT was also bashed for acting, but I disagree with that. In fact, I think Mark Hamill did an outstanding job portraying Luke, Carrie Fisher was good as Leia, and Harrison was a perfect Han Solo. Billy Dee only really had 1.5 movies to build a character that we could all get into and understand what Lando was all about, and he excelled in his work. If not for Sir Alec, we wouldn't really care that much about young Obi-Wan's fate -- especially with him being a minor character in E1. Palpatine and the people who made vader were also great. Yes, there were "Two fighters against a star destroyer," and, "copy. . . gold leader," but, all in all, I think the OT was done much better.
When you look at the performances in E1, Ian Mc is fun to watch as Palpy. I don't know the name of the guy who played Panaka, but he really created a deep character. Even though I don't like the cartoons in the PT, I think Watto was one of the most believable characters. And of course, Liam Neeson's performance as Qui-Gon saved the movie. He became the focal point of the movie that I thought was supposed to be about Anakin, and without him there really wouldn't be a lot of bright spots.
I know Ewan's a good actor, but he really hasn't done a whole lot for me so far. Maybe it was his limited role in E1 or the fact that he has to interact with Hayden in E2, but I haven't seen much good out of him.
The same goes for Sam Jackson. It looks as if he is trying to act poorly. NOt a shred of realism in his performance.
Everyone bashes Hayden, which is understandable, but I have yet to see Natalie Portman deliver a believable line. I mean, it looks like she has a gun to her back in E2 when she confesses her love for Ani. It makes you laugh. Her unemotional monotone drawl throughout 1 & 2 are just pathetic for someone who's supposed to be a leading character.
There are some bright spots, though. As I said earlier, Qui-Gon has become one of my favorite Saga characters thanks to Liam's portrayal. I don't like the cartoons, but Watto and Dexter were more believable than the majority of actors in PT. Ian is just a blast to watch as Palpy. As much as I was against showing Boba's origin, I can't argue with Tem Morrison's job as Jango. The dialogue between he and Obi-Wan is about the best in E2. Christopher Lee was magnificent -- I wish he'd had more screen time. Oops, I can't forget about Jimmy Smits. Hopefully he'll have a larger role as Bail in E3.

I think there are areas in the PT where Lucas should have had a writer help him get through the tough spots, and Irvin Kirshner should have directed rotj. But I enjoy both the PT and OT. I buy all the merchandise and watch the movies a lot. I will always feel the OT is superior, but I think E3 has the potential to be the best of them all.

[Kidhuman]

Okay, I would like to say first off that I love all five movies so far. The OT tome is great. It is what sparked my interest in Sw(of course). I was enthralled by it all. I remember going to Star Wars and getting that little toycatalog that came with all vehicles and playsets. Iremember when my parents bought home my first 4 figures(Luke X-Wing, Chewie, Ben, and Greedo). It never let up from there.

I was so excited when TPM was announced to be made. I couldnt wait. I waited on line for two hours to get tickets for the midnight showing. When I saw it I was enthralled once again. My fascination peeked again. I hate waiting three years for new movies. I am upset that in 2005 it is done for good(I hope G. Lu changes his mind and makes 7,8,and 9)

Now the OT is great. Even know I have seen it multitudes of times it just never gets old to me. The memories of my childhood and all. I still get goosebumps at the same parts I always did back then. The special effects I think are great. The story line is awesome. Everything from Vader's first appearance to his last in ROTJ.

The PT is great too. Like mentioned above, it gives us what we wanted, more Jedi, Anakins life and his story. It sets up the OT great(at least for now). I dont care if Midi's arent mentioned again or not. I dont care if JJb is annoying or not. These movies are flat out awesome. Hayden can use an acting class though. The special effects are again top notch. The CG is awesome too. But that is my story and I am sticking to it.

[keithfite]

well , I am glad you all replied. I was very interested to see what you had to say. I love the new movies, and the old. all great. I have seen em a hundred times and I will probably see them a hundred more. I just hear so much negative about the prequels. Im glad some others enjoy them. I love the new movies. I agree some of the acting is off, but the stories are just great. I will be honest, I like the new movies better. I just really enjoy their stories. I love TPM and alot of people dont. But to me that was just the greatest thing. When I saw it, I was thrilled Its look was just great. The places they were in, the builings, the scenery. It was cool. But I love them all. But like I said, my favorites are the new.

[JediTricks]

Gee, aren't I glad I never chose a moderator for this section.


JJB, I think you're selling me short if you think my primary reason for liking the OT over the PT is simply nostalgia - I think it's as much a simplistic, shallow excuse as the "prequel fans only like the movies because they're Lucas' sheep" type of thinking.


Anyway, let me answer the question posed as if it were asked to an individual instead of about a group:

I just wanted to ask, do you really enjoy the new movies.

Honestly, no I don't, not very much. I can't watch either one again anymore, and they've even sorta affected my enjoyment of the OT now as well by changing its content. I dislike AOTC more than TPM though and only bothered to see AOTC 1/4 as many times as TPM.

but the new movies have everything you ever wanted.

They do? Not to me, they answer nothing I was ever curious about and their plotlines have hindered the OT's for me (see previous) as well. I never wanted to see more Jedi, I had almost no curiousity about the Clone Wars, and I certainly didn't want THIS history of Darth Vader (though I will give you that there is a history I might have liked to have seen, so you get me on that one).

I understand why many love the originals more, they grew up with them, and they are classic.

Like Stilla said, my love of the OT has nothing to do with "growing up with them" or because they are considered classics, if the latter were the case I'd love Citizen Kane (which I don't), and if the former were the case I'd still be as enamoured with ROTJ as I was 20 years ago.


Don't worry Keith, I'm totally confident that there are still plenty of fans who dig the Prequels as much as you do, and I don't knock most of them for their opinions at all (except the ones who are lying to themselves about it out of blind loyalty or whatever reason, that does bother me a lot). I don't know if the majority of fans are prequel lovers or not, but it's clearly not a singular fanship.

[stillakid]

Gee, aren't I glad I never chose a moderator for this section.


JJB, I think you're selling me short if you think my primary reason for liking the OT over the PT is simply nostalgia - I think it's as much a simplistic, shallow excuse as the "prequel fans only like the movies because they're Lucas' sheep" type of thinking.


Anyway, let me answer the question posed as if it were asked to an individual instead of about a group:
Honestly, no I don't, not very much. I can't watch either one again anymore, and they've even sorta affected my enjoyment of the OT now as well by changing its content. I dislike AOTC more than TPM though and only bothered to see AOTC 1/4 as many times as TPM.

They do? Not to me, they answer nothing I was ever curious about and their plotlines have hindered the OT's for me (see previous) as well. I never wanted to see more Jedi, I had almost no curiousity about the Clone Wars, and I certainly didn't want THIS history of Darth Vader (though I will give you that there is a history I might have liked to have seen, so you get me on that one).

Like Stilla said, my love of the OT has nothing to do with "growing up with them" or because they are considered classics, if the latter were the case I'd love Citizen Kane (which I don't), and if the former were the case I'd still be as enamoured with ROTJ as I was 20 years ago.


Don't worry Keith, I'm totally confident that there are still plenty of fans who dig the Prequels as much as you do, and I don't knock most of them for their opinions at all (except the ones who are lying to themselves about it out of blind loyalty or whatever reason, that does bother me a lot). I don't know if the majority of fans are prequel lovers or not, but it's clearly not a singular fanship.

I'd like to concur with JT on this one. It really bothers me when other people try to tell me why I must dislike the Prequels. All I can figure is that it makes them feel better to think that it couldn't possibly be because of any inherent weaknesses of the films themselves, so it must be out of some twisted sense of nostalgia or OT loyalty or something. Some University should study this phenomenon. It's kind of fascinating.

Anyway, I will say that I did expect something completely different than the Prequel stories we are getting. Why? Was it because of some story that I wrote in my own head prior to seeing them? Not at all. I expected a different kind of story, with some different characterizations (Anakin being one) because that's the backstory that George and company wrote into the OT films. As I've mentioned a thousand times before, Obi Wan's history has been entirely altered and I'm still not sure why George would want to do such a thing. It's very bizarre to me. So this consistent hum of voices telling us to just sit back and enjoy it "like we did when we were kids" is impossible. It's the details that create the overall enjoyment, and for me, I can't, and refuse to, simply ignore (and rationalize away) such blatant abuses of plot and continuity. Why anyone else would is beyond me, but that's their choice I suppose. To each his own.

My one wish is that George would read some of these comments and respond to them honestly and without evasion. His m.o. tends to be to just ignore "critics" because "they just like to beat him down." Well, George, here's one critic who has spent literally thousands of dollars in merchandise because he liked your first efforts so well. Why would my recent critiques be any less valid just because they are negative? Oh yeah, it's because I'm older now and nostalgic for the old days.

[TheDarthVader]

I am not going to be critical in this thread. I am not going to "pick apart" the OT or the PT. All I can tell you is the answer to your question...Me, personally, I enjoy the PT. I like the movies and I believe the movies are good. I never had the chance to see ANH, ESB, or ROTJ in the theater...I did get to see the SE in the theater. I never had many of the OT toys either. But I am not sure what factors lead people to love or hate the PT (or like or dislike these movies). I love the PT and I love the OT.........END.....

[Rogue II]

I pretty much agree with stillakid and JediTricks.

On a related note, I saw the Oct 2003 issue of Toyfare magazine today. In the begining of the magazine, there was a picture of George Lucas with a thought bubble next to him that basically said, "I seem to have forgot to do something...Oh yeah, I forgot to make the prequels good!"