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  1. #1

    I don't think Anikin was ever on the lightside.

    From the beggining of when we meet him all thru to AOTC Anikin has never really shown any indication of being light side Jedi worthy. He was on the darkside before Qui Gonn and friends landed on Tatooine. It has been written before that "Darth Vader became the little boy he was so long ago in the final moments of ROTJ." Hogwash, the way he was there at the end, he had never been before.
    No matter how I die, even if there is a suicide note; it was murder. Cheers!
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  2. #2
    I might have to disagree. I think he was as a little boy. But when Qui-Gon died, it appeared to do something to him. He was taken away from the only other person who truly liked him(Padme). He probably felt like a slave again with Obi training him.

    When he finally saw Padme again, his fantasy was shot down. She kind of rejected him off the bat, but changed her tune halfway through the movie. Then his mom up and dies on her. He felt like he failed in his dream to free all slaves.

    He then failed on his quest to free Obi -Wan from Geonosis. He feels like he can never do right. Anakin probably screws up somewhere during the Clone Wars and pushes him furhter to the dark-side.

    Oh yeah, and he probably thought the council had no faith in him to begin with, so he was up against the wall from the get-go.
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  3. #3
    Yoda says in Ep 1 that Ani has a lot of fear within him and Mace says he's full of anger, these are 2 major paths to the dark side. If the leaders of the Jedi Council both think he's got all that within him, I think it's safe to say that the dark side was dominating his destiny even in Ep 1. However, that doesn't mean Ani doesn't want to do good, to cling to the good side of the Force, merely that he is not of the mindset to succeed there at this junction. I suppose when he defeats the Emperor in ROTJ, that may be the point where he finally casts out all fear and anger -- especially since he knows right then and there that his life only has a few minutes ahead.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "In Brooklyn, a castle, is where dwell I"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  4. #4
    I don't remember Mace saying Ani was full of anger, just that he was too old. I'll have to watch it again . . .

    "I'm a Jedi. I know I'm better than this."
    I think he meant well and always wanted to do well as a youngster.
    "Mom, you said the biggest problem in the universe is nobody helps each other."

  5. #5
    whatever happened to 'once you start down that path forever will it dominate your destiny.' according to yoda vader was a sith and would always remain one, it is the sith's way to usurp control from your master though. killing palpatine doesn't cleanse his slate.

    yoda tells ben in ESB that luke is full of anger, like his father - yet reluctantly agrees to train him anyway. later when luke claims not to be afraid yoda tells him 'you will be, you will be.'

    luke and his father, anakin, are much alike. i believe the difference is that luke makes the effort to stick to the path, while anakin lets his anger and fear feed his control of the force.

  6. #6
    Caesar, it might just have been in the Ep 1 script, it's been a while since I saw the film.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "In Brooklyn, a castle, is where dwell I"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  7. #7
    Thanks JT, I don't question that Mace probably thought that because it certainly makes sense. I just thought maybe I forgot something from the movie.

    Jax, my view of Yoda's quote about the Dark Side forever dominating one's destiny is that Yoda was simply "wrong" in this case. It's a very logical and probable statement for him to make because of the nature of the Dark Side. He has seen people turn and he knows the terrible outcomes because of it. But that's the thing about ROTJ and Luke's determination to bring his father back to the good side. Historically, once someone turns then he/she is practically doomed. But it's not a definite.

  8. #8
    Had been raised as a slave, he pretty much was always bitter and afraid.

    "I'M A PERSON AND MY NAME IS ANIKIN!!!!!"

    The way he snapped at Padme was the first indication.

    "I'm a Jedi, I know I am better than this"

    He knew that his darkside urges were overcoming his Jedi training, but didn't want to believe it.
    No matter how I die, even if there is a suicide note; it was murder. Cheers!
    MWHAHAHAHA!

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Caesar
    Jax, my view of Yoda's quote about the Dark Side forever dominating one's destiny is that Yoda was simply "wrong" in this case.
    I don't know if I agree with you on this. It could be that Yoda's statement was more cryptic, that even if the user stays with the light side, that the dark side will still loom over that user's shoulder causing hesitation or other actions that would be affected by that user going down the dark path before.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "In Brooklyn, a castle, is where dwell I"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by JediTricks
    I don't know if I agree with you on this. It could be that Yoda's statement was more cryptic, that even if the user stays with the light side, that the dark side will still loom over that user's shoulder causing hesitation or other actions that would be affected by that user going down the dark path before.
    as in the multitude of times in EU that we find luke consciously not using the force due to 'visions' of palpy and vader at times when he could obviously benefit from it. since luke trains under a couple of dark-side users it is not a one-way street as yoda claims.

    i was merely quoting from yoda. episode 3 may shed a little more light on the subject. as we learn more of anakin's transformation from jedi to sith lord or if others are shown to 'switch' allegiances within the movie.

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