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  1. #1

    Anakin must CHOOSE the Dark Side, or the Movie will Fail.

    Theory: If Anakin's decision to join Palpatine as his apprentice is "understandable", this movie will fail.

    Rationale: As of A New Hope, Darth Vader is introduced as the embodiment of everything evil the Empire represents: uncaring, cold, merciless, stupendously powerful. Upon walking onto the screen for the first time, we fear and hate him based solely on his frightening appearance (and that sublimely intimidating Williams score). The following few minutes of screen time enhance our fear and loathing of Vader. He's almost unbelievably bad.

    I don't want that opinion changed by watching episode III. I need to see Anakin choose hatred and jealousy over love, Palpatine over Obi Wan, and the promise of great power over his Jedi duty. I don't want to think to myself "I don't blame you, anyone in your shoes would have done the same thing, Ani." For me that will ruin the character as much as taking the decision to kill Greedo out of Han's hands (sorry) spoils Han.

    ASIDE: (who I also think needs to be seen as ruthless and cunning to work properly. Leia loves the bad boy, and can't understand why. That's the whole conundrum from her perspective, why minimize it? It's even more suitable now for her to love the bad boy - her mother fell in love with someone capable of slaughtering an entire band of Tuskens, did she not? Like mother like daughter. Sorry, an argument for a different topic I guess).
    Last edited by jjreason; 02-20-2004 at 05:11 PM.
    GOLDEN DEUCE AWARD WINNER & MABUCON ATTENDEE 2008

  2. #2
    Good post Reason, I'd like to see the same thing.

    In AOTC I like that I can feel compassion after he took out the Tuskens . . . because I would want to do the same. But that's the start of a slippery slope toward evil and by the time Anakin Falls, I don't want it to be for sympathetic reasons.

  3. #3
    Great thread. I agree with most of your post.

    I honestly think that George should have put in the scene where Anakin lost his temper in EPI. Before his days training as a Jedi. It goes to show his inherant lack of impulse control.

    Then the character development really takes off when he slaughters all the Tuskens. Again he allows his emotions to control him, but this time he does it after a decade of Jedi training. This really was the most significant event in the PT to date, IMO.

    This scene works on soo many different levels. Sure, lots of people can understand why Anakin would kill those who killed his mother, but he slaughtered women and kids!!! Women and kids!!!

    I guess that's what did it for me. He murdered innocent women and little kids. The fact that Amidala still loved him after that was pretty hard for me to accept. At this point some part of her has to know he's bad news. I mean, here we have a guy who is supposed to be a Jedi, has trained as one for a decade, yet he lost control and murdered innocent women and kids.

    Then he persues her with reckless abandon, again ignoring the mandate of the Jedi code.

    It's all about the selfish nature of Anakin Skywalker. Being reunited with his mother, satisfying his bloodlust when she dies, satisfying his desire for Amidala.

    His mother fights to hang on long enough to see Anakin, then basicly tells him that she is proud of him, she dies feeling a sense of satisfaction and completion, but for him it's all about his loss, his pain, his anger. He dosen't want to stop death to prevent the pain of the one who is dying or out of some sense of helping, he wants to prevent his own loss.

    I honestly think George will do a good job with Anakin's fall. I hope he attacks Obi-Wan out of jelously, maybe Oni-Wan forces a seperation, whereby Anakin will never see Amidala again. Here we go back to the loss and selfish desires Anakin strugles with. Finally, he stops strugling and gives in to the dark side!

    I like the way this works because we can see how it applies to Luke in ESB. Luke's refusale to let Han and Leia die. However, in Luke's case he does it for very different reasons than when Anakin tried to save his mom.

    This was Yoda's concern, he feared that Luke was only out to prevent his own senes of loss if they had died. Much the way Anakin exploded after he lost his mother. "Once you start down the dark side, forever will it dominate your destiny."
    May the force be with you.

  4. #4
    I agree. TO see Anakin stay with the Jedi would be an utter disappointment. He must chose to become Sith in this movie. The whole build-up from the beginning of the PT has been this, Why he did what he did. We need to see it. We ned ot see his cold, calious heart shine through.
    thanks Chux Turbo LBC Bobafrett Mtriv73 Rjarvis JF96 JT JMG FB Rogue2 Tycho Slicker Deoxy Caesar JontheJedi JJReason Brandon Solo JMS UK for great deals.
    SSG Pro Football Pick em and Bowl Pick em Champ 2006. 2007 NCAA Bracket Champ
    #24 - Gone but not forgotten

  5. #5
    The women were not innocent. They were enablers and deserved to die as well.
    It didn't seem like they felt compelled to help a fellow woman (Shmi) who was dying.
    The kids, well yeah, that's the real tragedy . . . I guess. But had Ani let them live, there may have been a few more adults ganging up on his son.

  6. #6
    I've been thinking this idea through for a couple of days and still haven't come up with a solid response. I think that the reason for that is because Anakin's motivations up to this point are so much all over the map that it's impossible to tell whether he's "choosing" his path or is just falling into it unconsciously.

    On one hand, he goes off like a brat out of hell about anything that doesn't go his way (like a whiny 3 year old kid). But on the other, when challenged about it (by Padme while she's packing her luggage), he admits that he knows he's being unfair in his tirades. So which is it? Does he really believe that he's being treated unfairly in life so he will take action to make up for it? Or is he just having knee-jerk reactions to things like some kind of bi-polar patient who can't control what he says or does in unconscious reactionary style?

    Looking back at the Original Trilogy, we don't really get a sense of where Vader is coming from. There never really is any indication of his "big picture" motivation in regards to the politics of the Republic or his hatred of the Jedi. His attitudes towards those things "just are." What this means is that the Prequels are an open book...practically any motivation Lucas dreams up for Anakin will do and not contradict anything already established by the OT. Anakin can "choose" or not and it won't really make a lick of difference because Vader's actions and reactions in the OT are pretty much very specific to what is happening at any given moment in time, whether it be about Luke or the Rebels or Ben or anything else.

  7. #7
    I don't think the word "choose" is going by dictionary definition here. I believe that we wanna see him turn, not end the trilogy with it still up inthe air
    thanks Chux Turbo LBC Bobafrett Mtriv73 Rjarvis JF96 JT JMG FB Rogue2 Tycho Slicker Deoxy Caesar JontheJedi JJReason Brandon Solo JMS UK for great deals.
    SSG Pro Football Pick em and Bowl Pick em Champ 2006. 2007 NCAA Bracket Champ
    #24 - Gone but not forgotten

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by kidhuman
    I don't think the word "choose" is going by dictionary definition here. I believe that we wanna see him turn, not end the trilogy with it still up inthe air

    Wouldn't the fight between he and Obi indicate this? I suspect that we'll "officially" find out that Palpatine is Sidious, so even your most idiotic audience member should be able to put 2 and 2 together to see that Anakin is being courted by a Sith Lord. So when he goes and "chooses" to fight Obi, we'll see that it's either because of another one of these knee-jerk unjustified reactions or because of some justified situation (ie. Obi gets caught feeling Padme up or something.)

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by stillakid
    I suspect that we'll "officially" find out that Palpatine is Sidious, so even your most idiotic audience member should be able to put 2 and 2 together to see that Anakin is being courted by a Sith Lord.



    WHAT!?? Palpatine is Sidious?? HUH!? NO WAY!!

    .. kidding.
    [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Salsa Shark.. I think were gonna need a bigger boat..[/FONT]

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by stillakid
    (ie. Obi gets caught feeling Padme up or something.)
    You mean with the Force right?
    THANKS FOR THE AT-TE & FALCON HASBRO. NOW IT'S TIME FOR A LARGE TANTIVE IV!

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