"Influential" = "Genius"?!?!

[mabudonicus]

Inspired by the "worst song ever" thread, I decided to start this one,so that one can get back on track

I just want to say that just because the music press always issues retoractive, retrospective-style stuff patting themselves on the back about supporting the true "genius", doesn't mean that that is the way it actually was
Of COURSE modern, big label artists will wax poetic about the mythological greatness of their "influences"

That's how the scam works, y'see

Take Kurt Kobain, f'rinstance (said I wouldn't... I did)

There was no vision at all behind the nirvana schtick. NONE, besides,to borrow a quote from the Simpsons, the observation that "making kids depressed is like shooting fish in a barrel"

Sorry for the fans, but honestly, musically there was almost nothing going on in their music... and yes I heard plenty of it

Now, if their music "inspired" a bunch of other angry kids to share their angst with others, so be it, but musically they brought nothing to the table.

I would even go so far as to say that Nirvana may well represent the "spirit of the age", so to speak, inspiring others to take up the same whiny torch, but there is no way that someone can seriously say that they learned any actual musical lessons from them (unless they weren't aware that you could make a song with only 2 chords in it, but that had been done already, too, about 100 years previous)


I was just tired of folks duking it out on an emotional basis... it isn't about what you like, I like a lot of pure crap too, but I know it is crap and like it anyways. Real inspiration, in a mainstream pop sense, ended officially in the 70's somewhere, once all the pop become derivative of (and largely based on) other folks translations of the source material, because the music buying public, by and large, is completely ignorant of what constitutes actual music. Like what you will, but don't confuse meaning with quality, that's where the arguments start.


Anyone ????

[El Chuxter]

Well, sometimes "influential" is synonymous with "genius." Look at Bob Dylan, Black Sabbath, Elvis, Hank Senior (Williams, not the monkey), Jimi Hendrix, Louis Armstrong, Robert Johnson, etc.

Though I must say I've never "got" Nirvana. Pretty decent pop band, but nothing spectacular, and (like I've said before) they'd already be in the washed-up boat with Pearl Jam if Cobain hadn't killed himself.

What's funny, though, and only slightly related, is to listen to lame musicians talk about their supposed influences as if reciting names they should be influenced by, as if there's any similarity. Case in point: John Mayer says the biggest influence on his work was Jimi Hendrix, and he judges his own stuff by how much he can't sound like Jimi. WTF? I guess Jimi was some half-witted cornball who couldn't play the guitar whatsoever and loved to use silly words like "bubblegum" in his music? I must've missed that Hendrix album.

[Bosskman]

It's all a money grab.

[Exhaust Port]

There must be some special for Bob Segar on MTV or something because I've been catching a particular sound bite for the last few days. Basically the spot shows Kid Rock on stage introducing Bob Segar or something and saying "Bob Segar is the baddest M@#$*#$*# in rock." Wha?? Bob Segar? Once again in an attempt to save a career by latching on to the coattails of a veteran or 2 an artist 1. Claims an influence that never really existed 2. Pronouncing that person to be the greatest musician ever or something.

Just like Fred Durst, Kid Rock announces yet another artist is the top dog.

"I, Kid Rock, will gladly show up to your tribute event and proclaim (your band name here) as the greatest showman on earth."

Claiming Bob Segar is the "baddest M(*&#*($&*(" in rock is like giving that title to Tom Petty or John Melloncamp. Yeah, he produced some classic songs but the baddest *#$*#*#$? Please get over it Mr. Rock.

[Deoxyribonucleic]

Take Kurt Kobain, f'rinstance (said I wouldn't... I did)

There was no vision at all behind the nirvana schtick. NONE, besides,to borrow a quote from the Simpsons, the observation that "making kids depressed is like shooting fish in a barrel"

Sorry for the fans, but honestly, musically there was almost nothing going on in their music... and yes I heard plenty of it

Now, if their music "inspired" a bunch of other angry kids to share their angst with others, so be it, but musically they brought nothing to the table.

Anyone ????

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!

I think you are the ONLY one I've EVER come across who feels this way and I don't understand WHY so many people are into some stupid heroine addicted jerk who brings a child into the world, marries the biggest heroine addicted w*o*e in the world and kills himself because he's sooooooo depressed and leaves this poor kid with that bimbo!!!! I can't stand Nirvana and I can't stand K.K. I lived in Seattle for most of my life and was there at all the bars they played (ie: rebar) and when they became "popular"...hell, my friend Gabe is in their "Teen Spirit" video...and I NEVER saw the big deal about their music...and then we have them to thank for the endless amount of crapola music the 90's put out...everything sounds the same anymore...and I blame grunge for the emergence of "bubblegum" pop because grunge depressed everyone sooooo much that the music industry had to make everyone happy again and they created that bubblegum crapola!!

Aaaaaaaarrrrrggggggggggggggg will it NEVER end?

Thank God for the 70's and for Classical/Operas!!

Sorry for venting there folks, but I've never had the chance to vent about that aweful band since I lived through it all so many years ago

[arctangent]

influential/genius are not necessarily and inextricably linked. i am sure there are many musicians who could be classed as genius but have influenced very few people because they never got the breaks or the luck or were so underground that few people got to hear them.

on the other hand there are musicians who have influenced many perhaps by pure fluke. take black sabbath - four working class blokes from the arse end of birmingham. tony iommi used to bully ozzy when they attended the same school and didn't really want him to join their band but they couldn't find anyone else. tony iommi can't play the guitar properly due to having the tips of his fingers cut off in an accident in a factory where he worked. so he played the way he could, which is how he produced the chords he played. the love and peace brigade meant nothing four lads from brum, it was bleak, grey and rained a lot. they all loved horror films and saw a name on a film poster at the cinema near where they used to practice that they really liked. so a name change, some huge power chords and some scarey lyrics later, bingo! a unique band is born who influenced just about every metal band ever. a stroke of genius or pure blind luck who knows.

[kool-aid killer]

All of us are influenced by somebody or something and we all influence somebody or something else. That doesnt make them or us geniuses. But i dont think anybody can argue against the fact that a death will greatly help an entertainers legacy. And any criticism against them is seen as unwarranted and the criticiser is seen as a hater.

[El Chuxter]

Claiming Bob Segar is the "baddest M(*&#*($&*(" in rock is like giving that title to Tom Petty or John Melloncamp.

Hate to break it to you, but Tom is the baddest mofo in rock. The songs may sound deceptively gentle, but the dude's got a lot of bile. And cajones.

[Exhaust Port]

Little did I realize but "Runnin' down a Dream" is really about his love for hit and runs. It seems he not one to mess with.

[stillakid]

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!

I think you are the ONLY one I've EVER come across who feels this way ...

Perhaps you missed our "discussion" in the WORST SONG thread.