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  1. #1

    The Star Wars fans that hate Star Wars

    Hopefully I don't get too burned for this...

    I've noticed lately that people seem to be showing a lot of hatred for Star Wars around here, especially for the Prequels (and the modified versions of the OT to a lesser extent).

    If I don't like something, there's no way I'm going to shell out any time or money for it. Take LOTR for example. I have spent a greand total of $1 on them. I rented the first one (for $1) and thought it was amazingly dull. It took me 4 sittings to get through it. A friend paid for me to see the 2nd, because he swore it would be a lot better - I was just as bored. Still haven't seen the 3rd and probably never will. I don't like it. It's not my thing. I choose not to support it.
    I understand Star Wars is a different kind of thing, but the PT is far far different than the OT. That seems to be why many people hate it.

    So basically what I am asking is: If you hate the Prequels and modified OT so much, why do you continue to support it in almost every conceivable way?

    (Sorry if this is in the wrong forum, but there isn't a general Star Wars thread.)
    [FONT=Book Antiqua]He passes to Moses - He shoots, he scores![/FONT]
    Mummy of the raincoat is a gigantic trollop.
    DOMINATE!


  2. #2

    Re: The Star Wars fans that hate Star Wars

    I don't hate the prequels, but in a lot of ways I think they're not as strong as the CT. There are things that can be improved upon, and I think a good deal of it is due to Lucas surrounding himself with yes-men. Coppola and others weren't afraid to tell him in the 70s that long sequences of the Rebels whistling nonchalantly in the corridors of the Death Star and weird asides about midget aliens didn't fit the movie. Who has the guts now to tell him a bunch of fart jokes don't, either?

    I think both TPM and AOTC have a lot of potential. In fact, if you took the IMAX edit of AOTC and restored the Senate sequences that were cut for that format, I think the result would be on par with ESB, easily.

    As for changes, I wouldn't mind him changing anything if he would accept that, while he owns the movies and can do anything, he is destroying film history. SE's and DVD versions are not the films that revolutionized the entertainment industry and that a generation grew up with. Look at any feature about the impact of SW that's been made in the past five years, and you will see Melas and Ketwol in the Cantina, and a shockwave from the Death Star. That's not the way it was.

    And the replacement of Sebastian Shaw is appallingly disrespectful. Imagine if the director of Gone with the Wind (sorry, don't know the name) decided in his old age that Carrot Top would be a more suitable Rhett Butler (maybe because he'd since come up with a prequel in which we see young Rhett as an annoying orange-haired buffoon) and digitally replaced Clark Gable throughout. Would folks stand for it? I doubt it, and it's the same thing.

    This isn't merely cleaning up a goof where we see Harrison's reflection between Indy and the cobra. It's not Stephen King realizing that he gave Roland's first love two different names over the course of three decades and fixing it in reprints of The Gunslinger (or Tolkien revising Bilbo's tale of getting the Ring from Gollum to fit LOTR better).

    Spielberg understood folks want the original ET. Why can't Lucas accept we want the original Star Wars?

    I'll be buying the DVDs, because most of the changes don't bother me from a storytelling perspective, and because I want the better sound and image. But I know there are several (kidhuman comes to mind, as he's said it many a time) who won't be buying it and supporting Lucas in this.
    Tommy, close your eyes.

  3. #3

    Re: The Star Wars fans that hate Star Wars

    And about stillakid. If he hates everything so much, why does he even go on here? Isn't there something he could be doing as a better usage of his time? He's entitled to his opinion, but he's strange. I know I don't go on Pokémon websites all day and talk to people about why it sucks so bad. I don't know why he does the same for SW.

  4. #4

    Re: The Star Wars fans that hate Star Wars

    While being very critical of the PT and the continual monkeying around that Lucas is doing with the OT, I do not hate SW, the PT or Mr. Lucas. The problems I have are that the magic of the OT which includes its sense of humor and sense of awe, are not present in the PT. Lucas wisely hired decent writers to help him with the OT, but pretty much did everything himself on the PT (AOTC was marginally better than TPM, possibly because Lucas had a writing assist). I've said this elsewhere, so to be brief, I think many of the problems with the PT stem from Lucas embracing this notion that he intentionally melded all of these old myths and historical events into a meaningful whole, rather than having paid homage to the Flash Gordon serials he grew up on, which is what he did. The PT now takes itself too seriously with it's quasi-religious and mythological portents. Lucas also pandered with the PT. Let's face it, if Boba Fett hadn't become the popular character that he ended up being, there's no way there would have been a Jango Fett in the PT, let alone the important role he ended up having. The Pt also strains credibility with the ever tightening circle of small world coincidences in terms of how all the characters relate to one another--Impoverished, most likely, illiterate slave-boy Anakin whipping together advanced technological vehicles and an advanced AI, who happens to end up back at the same moisture farm 20+ years later with Anakin's son. Pleeeeease.

    These criticisms are due to the important effect that the OT had on my upbringing, and the note in how second rate the PT is in comparison, when in fact it should be so much better considering how long Lucas had to think about it, let alone the technological advances he'd been waiting for. It says a lot when the Clone Wars animated series managed to be much more exciting than either prequel movie, and it really made the Jedi appear to be a force to be reckoned with, instead of the lame cannon fodder that they were in AOTC--and it did it all with very little dialogue. If the PT movies had been as good as the cartoons, not only would I be praising them left and right, they would have had the same cultural impact that the OT had. Instead, the PT has left almost no mark whatsoever on the conscience of the general public. This is why kids are not clamoring for these toys in droves, like when the OT came out.

    For me, one of the biggest draws about SW, and one of the reasons I support it in spite of it's failings, is the production design. Even as a kid I was amazed by the implied history of this lived in world. It was such a contrast to the gleaming futuristic presentations of sci fi movies previous to SW, and I think it's this lived in world, where everything looks like it belongs, functions, and has a back story, that the eu was able to take off as sucessfully as it has.

    This is why I'm so interested in having toys made of background characters as opposed to the perfect Jedi Anakin Skywalker. Anakin's not a very interesting character in the PT. CZ-3, who's just a droid in the background, is at least, ineteresting looking and he can have whatever character traits I want him to have.

  5. #5

    Re: The Star Wars fans that hate Star Wars

    I don't hate SW at all, just Rick McCallum. IMO, our world would be a better place if we could get rid of Ricky-dick, Wal-Mart, and Big Oil.
    "I'm just a YES man trying to make my way in the universe." - Jango McCallum

    "Good dialogue and smooth editing are no match for a good YES man by your side, kid." - George Lucas

  6. #6

    Re: The Star Wars fans that hate Star Wars

    I don't hate SW, not even the PT. Sure there are PARTS of it I don't like but that doesn't mean I hate it. I think a lot of us at times put the OT on some sort of pedestal and almost consider it sacriledge to even compare the new movies to it but here are a few things I thought up, please don't flame me for them:

    1. People (ie the general public) are so innnudated with special effects nowadays that there will never be another "Star Wars phenomenon" like there was way back when, In terms of special effects NOTHING could touch SW for years, unitl CGI. PERIOD. No matter how good the special effects are in the prequels, people just are not impressed with that sorta stuff anymore.

    2. Kids don't play with toys like we used to. Everythings computer this and Playstation that. Sure, some kids want toys and do play with them, but it's nowhere near the way it was back in the golden age of toys, when toys were TOYS and not the cool movie-replicas and statuesque figures we know and love today. Things just are not that way anymore.

    3. The media is fickle. Everything has their 15 minutes nowadays. EVERYTHING. Star Wars can't compete with reality TV, the final episode of Freiends, child molester priests, contractors getting beheaded, Martha Stewart, etc. They just go on from one thing to another to another, to another. The media is all over something for, at the most, a few months, and then it's never heard from again. Take LOTR for example. When ROTK won all those awards it was EVERYWHERE for a few weeks, not it's nothing. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that people only like what they're told to. (Well some people do) But the media now is not what it once was back when the OT came out. There is no way it could sustain6 years worth of SW like it did back then.

    4. Lucas is a fool. There I said it. The sluggard takes all the credit for the work of countless people, without whom SW would be NOTHING. All this Joseph campbell crap just shows the public an image of a bloated swolen head that's soon to implode in on itself. It's this image that people get and it turns them off. Like it was said before by others, the adventure has been replaced by "myth". Pass me the pukebucket.

    5. Our expectations were impossibly high. I thought about this one and it seems to me I was disapointed because I wanted to see certain things and got upset when I didn't. Next time you watch TPM or AOTC, forget about Vader, Luke, Leia, Chewie, Han, Cloud City, etc..and jusy follow where the story is going. I'm sure once ROTS is out and seen, and I sit down and watch the 6 movies back to back I'll get the same feeling I did when I was a kid, only better. We even use the term "prequel". That implies we want movies that know we already know what happens. I try to think of them as linear from 1 to 6 and they are so much better that way IMO. And yes, the "magic" is still there if we can put aside our adultness for a few hours. I'm gonna finish this thought in my next post.
    Hating aurra sing since 1999.

  7. #7

    Re: The Star Wars fans that hate Star Wars

    Here a a few "magic" moments in TPM and AOTC I felt anyway, were the stuff of the OT and I don't care who knows it.

    1. Anakin in the junk shop. Forget the fact that he becomes Vader and immagine what it would be like to be a kid in the SW universe. The first time we see Anakin in the Junk shop reminds me of the Ewok movies so much it aint funny. While not the OT proper, as a kid, I did not differentiate between the OT and the Ewok movies. As far as I knew then, there were 5 SW movies back then. I remember getting the same feeling with the kids in the Ewok movies, them growing up with all these gadgets and beasts and space travel and aliens and whatnot and thinking them everday mundane things.

    2. The Nemoidians. These are cheesy SW aliens as good as any in the OT. The voices, the actions, everything about them screams SW to me.

    3. When Yoda lifts the crane in the hanger on Geonosis. Screw all the philosophizing Jedi crap spewed by Mace and Qui-Gon. Here's freaking Yoda pulling a Luke and saving his freinds from certain death rather that stopping Dooku and severely damaging Palpy's plans. Even the music is a foreshadowing of him lifting the X-Wing from the swamp. When I saw that, and just after that fight screne, I thought to myself: YODA.


    I'll post more later, I gotta crap.
    Hating aurra sing since 1999.

  8. #8

    Re: The Star Wars fans that hate Star Wars

    I dont hate the prequels. I rather enjoy them. I think the story is coming along great. Its like reading a book, I cant make a decision until I read the end. Lucas has one oppurtunity to make the continuity good. If he F's up EP3, then the first two were for nothing.

    Now, onto the next issue, the OT. The OT is awesome, in its original format. I understand the sprucing up of the effects and all. What I hate is the chagning the storyline. He took Han, from a ruthless villian and turned him into a folk hero. Sure he still has is past as a smuggler, but it seems to have been taken away from him somewhat in having Greedo shoot first. It turned his personality completely around from our original view of him.

    Adding Jabba the Hutt was completely dumb IMO. He had no right to be there. And if Jabba wanted him dead so badly, why did he let him go when he had him in Mos Eisley?

    Changing Jabbas Palace music scene was also a horrid move by Lucas. Honestly, I want to know what the hell he is smoking, becuuse it must be some good sh*t.

    When he took what we enjoyed in our childhood, and completely revamped it into this monstrosity, he p**sed alot of people off. And now on top of changing it, he straight up refuses to give us the movies in the form that made him a household name. That is why he has been removed from my Christmas card list. I will refuse to buy these DVD sets on principle alone. I got my bootlegs, so Lucas can go SUCK-A-TASH as far as I am concerned.
    Last edited by Kidhuman; 08-27-2004 at 09:24 PM.
    thanks Chux Turbo LBC Bobafrett Mtriv73 Rjarvis JF96 JT JMG FB Rogue2 Tycho Slicker Deoxy Caesar JontheJedi JJReason Brandon Solo JMS UK for great deals.
    SSG Pro Football Pick em and Bowl Pick em Champ 2006. 2007 NCAA Bracket Champ
    #24 - Gone but not forgotten

  9. #9

    Re: The Star Wars fans that hate Star Wars

    Wow, I was totally expecting to be burned by this thread.
    Thank you all for your intelligent responses.

    All of you have made your points very well.
    I (almost) totally agree with everything Bosskman said.
    [FONT=Book Antiqua]He passes to Moses - He shoots, he scores![/FONT]
    Mummy of the raincoat is a gigantic trollop.
    DOMINATE!


  10. #10

    Re: The Star Wars fans that hate Star Wars

    I've said this before, but Star Wars is a rich, diverse universe with films and many different EU-bearing formats, just because I don't like the NJO tales doesn't mean I'm not a SW fan.

    So basically what I am asking is: If you hate the Prequels and modified OT so much, why do you continue to support it in almost every conceivable way?
    Well, with TPM, I admit I was a sucker, I saw it a lot, but half of those theatrical viewings were pre-purchased tickets and I did want to see all the little things. As for AOTC, I saw it 3 times in theaters, once on opening day at the Chinese theater (which is a tradition for me), once for SW's 25th anniversary at my favorite neighborhood independent theater, and once on the last day at the IMAX theater just to see it that way. I've only watched it once or twice on DVD, and that was merely for the commentary tracks. With both films though, I went the 2nd time because wanted to give them another chance in their intended format (theatrical) in case I was missing something that first time - both let me down miserably. I don't hate these films, but I don't like them either, they are in my mind only 2nd-rate EU with a big budget and a few random good pieces that are strung together with a lot of icky-icky goo.

    As for these modified CT releases, I want the DVDs for the commentaries and the DVD-quality image, but I will still loathe the horrible SE and post-SE changes that are on them. Ultimately, I support the things about SW that I like and minimize my financial support of those that I do not.

    But I will say this, the PTs have been dampening my affection for the OT a little because they're changing the context of things in those original films, now they're even changing the content, and I don't like my Star Wars being impacted that way.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "We named the dog 'Chewbacca'!"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

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