What doesn't work about ROTJ?

**JediTricks** · 09-13-2004

As a kid, I can still remember waiting in the hot summer sun in line for ROTJ and coming out of the theater very excited, I also remember the Ewok-mania that some adults had concerning the Ewok toys. A lot of fans say that ROTJ is the weakest of the trilogy and I'd agree with that, but what specifically doesn't work about the film? What is wrong with it?

**Kidhuman** · 09-13-2004

Except Josh Yowzer or what ever, nothing.

**Bobby Fett** · 09-13-2004

In no particular order:

The destruction of the second Death Star was too much like the destruction of the first.

Ewoks.

The ease with which Vader killed the Emperor was too anti-climactic.

Ewoks.

The secret backdoor to the shield generator which everyone seemed to know about.

Ewoks.

The ease with which Boba Fett was dispatched.

Ewoks.

**Devo** · 09-13-2004

Well firstly I'll say that I actually prefer Jedi to ANH. No doubt this is influenced by the fact that I saw jedi many times before I ever saw ANH. I believe if Jedi had come out first it would be held in more high regard certainly from the point of view of the battle sequences. But since it didn't come out first:

I suppose its biggest flaw is having another death star. The heroes facing exactly the same threat as they did in the first film.

The character interractions aren't as snappy as in the first two films. Han and Leia get along (perhaps a natural progression but one is allowed to prefer the time when they didn't). Likewise one may prefer ESB luke to ROTJ luke but these things are subjective.

Lando and Han get along fine despite the fact that Hans last memory of Lando before he was frozen was of his betrayal. Perhaps there should have been a scene of reconciliation between them. This doesn't really bother me but I thought I'd jot it down.

**2-1B** · 09-13-2004

Just about everything in ROTJ works for me. The second Death Star is indeed a bit redundant but it's done well enough and improves over ANH successfully enough that I don't have a problem with it.

I don't hate the Ewoks as some people do, in fact I rather like them.

Boba Fett is a hack and I'm glad he goes early.

Lando and Han, yeah it seems all patched up but I figure the fact that Lando came after him must speak volumes to Han.

Okay, one thing that DOES NOT work for me in ROTJ is the Jabba dance sequence . . . if the original band segment was in place I'd be hard pressed to find anything that doesn't work in ROTJ.

In fact, I like ROTJ better than ANH and a bit less than ESB.

**mrpauldeeds** · 09-14-2004

Why does everyone hate the ewoks??? Ive liked them since i was a kid, cute little fuzzys with spears, whats not to like

i do agree with the 2nd death star though, how its the same threat as in ANH.
and Bobby Fetts "back door" which everyone knew about is lame. But I think ROTJ was a good movie all in all.

**Darth Rend** · 09-14-2004

First of, childish humor. I did not need burp jokes, nor do I need to hear Chewbacca do a Tarzan call.

But..the biggest problem for me was that the principal characters, with Luke as the exception, seemed to become caricatures of thier old selves. It almost feels like the actors had stopped taking the roles seriously. Or perhaps it was the directing, or the writing, I don't pretend to know, but something was definitly off.

The best example: HAN.

On the forest moon. Han is about to sneak up on the scout troper, and the others tell him to be carefull, Han says "Don't worry...it's ME!" (or "Hey...it's me" I forget which)...the response to this is Leia and Luke exchanging glances that seem to say "Oh, boy. that wacky Han. You just know he's gunna blow it." In that moment in the script, I feel Han's character is stripped of all credibility. He no longer feels like the dashing smuggler who blasts his way out of Storm-trooper filled docking bays. He's no longer the risk-taker who is is crazy enough to fly into an asteroid field, and actually pull it off. Now, he feels like a punch-line. "oh, that wacky Han."

I feel like there is one main element missing that made the character dynamic work in the previous 2 moives: tension. All of a sudden, EVERYONE are buddies and best pals. No smart-***** quipping, no playfull banter...none of that fun back and forth between Han and Leia. Everyone gets along TOO well. even Han and Lando. Does it occur to anyone that last last time Han saw Lando, he sold him to Vader? If I was Han, and I've just been thawed, and I see Lando hanging around Jabba's Palace, I wouldn't say "Hey great, he must be here to help." Han says it best: "I'm out of it for a little while and everyone's got delusions of graduer." Yes Han was out of it. Unfortunatly through Jedi, Han always feels a step behind everyone.

He kills Boba Fett in a goofy comedy moment. Yes, that is a terrible way to kill off Boba, but it's also a terrible way for Han to off his arch-rival. Han doesn't get to kill Jabba, he kills Fett by ACCIDENT, his credibility is shot by Luke and Leia, he messes up trying to sneak up on a scout trooper causing Luke and Leia to clean up after him in the speeder bike chase, he ends up being submissive to the ewoks, he MESSES UP hot-wiring the shield doors, he acts like a Jr High school student jealous of Luke and Leia talking, and whines more about the Falcon ("You,...you promise now, not a scratch??) ....He doesn't even get to fly HIS ship into the Death Star. The only thing of merit Han gets in Jedi is to plant the explosive charges AFTER the battle is won. He was even the last to know that Leia was Luke's sister. Han was reduced in Jedi to comedy relief.

I hate to say it, but if that was how they were going to treat the coolest character in the trilogy, I would've prefered he died in the carbon freezing, at least then he would've died a martyr.

**Darth Rend** · 09-14-2004

Oh and for the record, I'd say Jedi is the weakest of the SAGA.

**Rocketboy** · 09-14-2004

Darth Rend, I have no idea what movie you saw...
I'm not about to start an argument (I don't have the time today even if I did), but disagree with everything you said about Han in Jedi.

**Darth Rend** · 09-14-2004

Originally Posted by Rocketboy

Darth Rend, I have no idea what movie you saw...
I'm not about to start an argument (I don't have the time today even if I did), but disagree with everything you said about Han in Jedi.

I don't argue. I engage in friendly debate. It's much nicer

No need to be sarcastic....

I am curious what you don't agree with, however. That stuff did all happen right? The twig he steps on, the blast doors closing....What else did Han do that I missed? And what event did I recall that didn't happen? With the exception of stating an opinion that Han's roll was reduced to comedy relief, Everything I stated was pretty much fact.