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  1. #1

    What's the supposed conflict with the Emperor's new dialogue?

    I've seen a few reviews of the DVDs that say Palpatine's new dialogue in ESB SE 2.0 completely negates the Expanded Universe stories that explain how Vader finds out about Luke's identity.


    Luke and Vader only met up twice that I can think of between ANH and ESB, in Vader's Quest and in Splinter of the Mind's Eye.

    Vader's Quest is hardly the shining moment of SW comics. Overall, it's pretty mediocre, but with a few great scenes (like Vader losing his temper and using a Stormtrooper's rifle to incinerate everything around when he first hears "Skywalker" used to describe the pilot who destroyed the Death Star). The Vader/Luke matchup here is very brief (and ridiculous), and there are tons of bystanders. Not the time or place to announce your proposal for what boils down to high treason.

    The final scene shows the Emperor in his throne room, discussing with a spy how he suspects Vader knows Luke's identity and wants to keep the knowledge from Palpatine.

    No problems there. If Vader's trying to keep a secret, he's not going to suddenly say, when he learns the Emperor knows, "Okay, boss, you got me. Good one! My mouth was open!" He's going to lie and play dumb.

    In Splinter of the Mind's Eye, Vader actually speaks briefly with Luke, stating that he expended a lot of resources to learn his identity (but, being written prior to ESB, obviously doesn't say anything about his own connection to Luke). Luke gets incredibly lucky in a duel, slicing off Vader's often-amputated right arm and knocking him into a pit.

    So Vader didn't have a chance to tell Luke, and possibly didn't want to with Leia (who he doesn't know about at this point) present.

    And then in the scenes of ESB leading up to his conference with Palpatine, there's no question at all that he knows who Luke is. And that he plans to keep telling Palpatine that he's after the Rebel Alliance, not specifically Luke.

    It's been "known" in the EU for a long time that Vader is lying to Palpatine about the extent of his knowledge and his plans. It's also been "known" that Palpatine is fully aware of this and allows it to continue. And putting the prequels together with ROTJ, it's pretty clear that both Vader and Palpatine want to turn Luke into the next Sith Apprentice at the expense of the other's life.

    So what's the supposed problem? I prefer the original dialogue, but I can't see this glaring continuity error that's supposedly there? Am I just missing something?
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  2. #2

    Re: What's the supposed conflict with the Emperor's new dialogue?

    Dunno, I have no problem with the new dialogue. But it's actually now clearer that Vader's been hiding things from Palpatine. Maybe if Palpy didn't know about Vader's big search (the crawl said he was "obsessed") and if he did know, he would have put an end to it.

    I don't think EU is canon at all with what's in the films, take a look at all the Boba Fett stuff. George has the right to ignore that stuff if he wants to, and I doubt he reads every single comic and book that's put out there.

    "Hmm, well, I think the Emperor's dialogue in ESB needs to be changed . . . but oh no, in that one comic, Vader was talking to the Emperor about Luke, so I can't change it . . ."
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  3. #3

    Re: What's the supposed conflict with the Emperor's new dialogue?

    I totally agree with you. I think the funniest part about Lucas going against the EU is how people try to make up other stories to make what they wrote true from a certain point of view (i.e. Boba Fetts origins).
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  4. #4

    Re: What's the supposed conflict with the Emperor's new dialogue?

    Dammit why all-of-a-sudden do I have to log in every time I want to post??

    Anyway, I'll have to wait and see ESB SE:2.0 before I can make any real judgement but I wonder if this is just Lucas' way of clarifying to the insanely dumb that Vader and the emperor know that Luke destroyed the Death star. So rather than having us just assume that they found out in the intervening period between ANH and ESB (and now find no need to mention it) its now painstakingly explained. If this is the case its totally unnecessary and yet another symptom of Lucas' foolishness. Just like how we really didn't need it rammed down our throats that Vader leaves Bespin to return to his star destroyer on his shuttle at the same time as the Falcon begins making its escape. I think its Lucas massively underestimating the intelligence of his audience. He's filling the films with totally unnecessary exposition.

  5. #5

    Re: What's the supposed conflict with the Emperor's new dialogue?

    Devo, it's more of a way of clarifying that Vader is keeping things from Palpatine. The fact that he knows about Luke, and that he's trying to locate him under the Emperor's nose. You get further evidence of this when Vader's trying to turn Luke on Cloud City. He's trying to make it clear to people that didn't get it before, that Vader is planning to use Luke to take out Palpatine. You'll be suprised how many fans of the movies never got that Vader was working behind Palpy's back, just check the DVD thread.

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    Last edited by Beast; 09-18-2004 at 10:03 AM.

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