Lucas - "Greedo was always meant to fire first."

[rbaumhauer]

From the latest Entertainment Weekly:

GL: If you really look at it, there's hardly any changes at all. The thing that really caused the trouble on "Star Wars" (notice he doesn't call it "A New Hope"?) is the whole question of whether Han Solo or Greedo shoots first. The way it got cobbled together at the time, it came off that [Han] fired first. He didn't fire first.

EW: So you consider this a correction?

GL: It's a correction. [When I made "Star Wars"] I said,"Well, I don't have that shot, so I'll just, you know, fudge it editorially." In my mind [Greedo] shot first or at the same time. We like to think of [Han Solo] as a murderer because that's hip - I don't think that's a good thing for people.

Seriously, is he even aware of how silly this sounds? Did we all think it was "hip" to think Han was a "murderer"? From the dialog in the scene, it was OBVIOUS that Greedo intended to kill Han - it was never any worse than self-defense.

Lucas creates a "Western in Space", where people carry sidearms as a matter of course, then 20 years down the line convinces himself that having a classic "gunman" character use his sidearm in self-defense makes him a cold-blooded murderer. THEN, another 6-7 years down the line, he convinces himself that it was never supposed to be that way in the first place - he just "fudged it editorially".

[stillakid]

I'm reminded of the line by Dennis Hopper in SPEED when he tells Keanu, "No, poor people are crazy...I'm eccentric."

Look, he effed up. He knows it. And instead of admitting that, it's easier to reimagine his intentions and live off the worship of those that defend him at every turn.

At this point, I'm like, "whatever" . Long ago, he inspired a lot of young kids to get into the movie business and slowly "we" are making our way through the system. His time has passed and new sources of inspiration will arrive for all of us to look up to. Star Wars jumped the shark long ago and now we're in the 6th season of the series when it should have ended when Luke went off to college before Cousin Oliver showed up. ROTS will have its version of Scrappy Doo (Grevious) and officially call it a day. The cast will come out for a final curtain call, champaigne will be poured and they'll all collect their royalties for years to come. Life will go on, but with the knowledge that Greedo never fired first.

[Kidhuman]

Life will go on, but with the knowledge that Greedo never fired first.

I think I will put that on my gravestone.


HEre lies KH. In passing he wanted us to know that Greedo never fired first.


I will leave my bootlegs ot the SMithsonian for proof.

[2-1B]

Well said, Rbaum.
However, you're a little mistaken because George is actually somewhat correct because there are people who think Han shot Greedo in cold blood.

It was indeed self defense for Han to kill Greedo, even if Han did shoot first.

And that is why I disagree with other people around here (stillakid ) who say silly things about the SE change actually changing Han's character arc.
Look, it already was self defense for Han to shoot Greedo before the green fella ever squeezed off a shot. Greedo had a gun in Han's face and as far as I'm concerned, Han was totally justified in blowing the guy away.

Don't get me wrong, I really hate the whole Greedo-Firing-First thing and I think it was unneccessary - but NOT because of any (false) change in Han's character. I despise it just because of how crappy it looks on screen.

If GL had the proper footage to realize this ultimate vision for the scene, I would have NO problem with Greedo firing first. But he doesn't have the right footage and it looked like crap. So I stand opposed.

[B'Omarr Monkey]

GL's explanation is lame. For one thing, this is hardly the same thing as a shoddy matte painting, or not having the budget to pay for stop motion. If he wanted to have Greedo shoot first all along, he could have easily done that.

For another thing, looking at the script again, which GL is supposed to have written, there is no indication that Greedo fired first. The description is as follows:

HAN: Yes, I'll bet you have.

Suddenly the slimy alien disappears in a blinding flash of light. Han pulls his smoking gun from beneath the table as the other patrons look on in bemused amazement. Han gets up and starts out of the cantina, flipping the bartender some coins as he leaves

HAN: Sorry about the mess.

Third. Watching it from the first time I saw it back in 1977, and all through those intervening years until the SE came along, I was always under the impression that Greedo was about to blast Han, but that Han was quicker on the draw. This of course, indicated by the dialogue exchange prior to the blasting.

Fourth, if Han is supposed to be so sympathetic and a new age kind of man like Lucas is retroactively making him, what's with the flippant line "Sorry about the mess." Come on, Han was essentially a drug smuggler. I don't think the spices he was smuggling included cumin or paprika. He was only in it for the money. He was a lowlife scumbag who fell into the same criminal underground populated by the likes of Jabba, Boba Fett, and Lando. These were not nice guys. they were all looking out for themselves.

In my new edition of ANH, Greedo shoots the director.

[stillakid]

Well said, Rbaum.
However, you're a little mistaken because George is actually somewhat correct because there are people who think Han shot Greedo in cold blood.

It was indeed self defense for Han to kill Greedo, even if Han did shoot first.

And that is why I disagree with other people around here (stillakid ) who say silly things about the SE change actually changing Han's character arc.
Look, it already was self defense for Han to shoot Greedo before the green fella ever squeezed off a shot. Greedo had a gun in Han's face and as far as I'm concerned, Han was totally justified in blowing the guy away.

Don't get me wrong, I really hate the whole Greedo-Firing-First thing and I think it was unneccessary - but NOT because of any (false) change in Han's character. I despise it just because of how crappy it looks on screen.

If GL had the proper footage to realize this ultimate vision for the scene, I would have NO problem with Greedo firing first. But he doesn't have the right footage and it looked like crap. So I stand opposed.

Yeah, what B'Monk said.

But, Caesar, I think that we're closer on this than you (would like to) think. With either version, Han is shooting (essentially) in self-defense. Here you've got a bounty hunter with a gun pointed at his chest for a couple of minutes...Han knew what could happen which is why he played it cool and secretly pulled his own weapon just in case it was needed. Then, as B'Monk points out, the "discussion" pretty much came to a head and Greedo's intentions were all but clear. He was going to take Solo in dead or alive. I think that argument for "in cold blood" can be made either way, but having Han shoot second does change Solo's arc no matter what. Instead of being a guy who takes control of a situation for his own good, he now is a guy who is willing to take it first (because he's essentially a good golly good guy) and then if he's still alive, he'll punish the perp. This is hardly a rough and ready independent smuggler type in need of some character development. If he starts out as a swell guy, then where is there to go and what is left for him to learn throughout the rest of the story? The old version left room for Han to grow as a person. The new version has him being the same guy at point A as at point B. Yawwwwnn.

[2-1B]

But, Caesar, I think that we're closer on this than you (would like to) think.

I think you are right about that.

With either version, Han is shooting (essentially) in self-defense.

Well, since we agree on that, then I have to be open to debating the "story arc" argument on a separate plane . . . I'll have to think some more about that.

[Darth Rend]

Come on, Han was essentially a drug smuggler. I don't think the spices he was smuggling included cumin or paprika. He was only in it for the money. .

Actually, I'm thinking spice was never intended to be a drug. Thats something we can thank the EU for. I mean, why would Owen tell Luke that his father was a navigator on a SPICE frieghter? That would raise alot more questions Owen couldn't anser. Think about it...

"Hey Uncle owen? I was talking to an old guy named Ben at Anchorhead, he mentioned my Dad! He said he fought in the Clone Wars!"

" What? NO, your dad wasn't a soldier...he, was....uh...a DRUG DEALLER. Yeah. He ran the navigation system for sleazy low-life criminals. Now shut up and drink your blue milk."

I was always under the impression Han smuggled spice to avoid hefty and unfair imperial taxes and tarrifs for people who wanted to illegal save some bucks on thier businesses.

[scruffziller]

How could we ever think that Han would be a cold blooded murder? He had a blaster pointed in his face? Silly Georgie Boy, original release bootlegs are for fans.

[B'Omarr Monkey]

Actually, I'm thinking spice was never intended to be a drug. Thats something we can thank the EU for. I mean, why would Owen tell Luke that his father was a navigator on a SPICE frieghter? That would raise alot more questions Owen couldn't anser. Think about it...

"Hey Uncle owen? I was talking to an old guy named Ben at Anchorhead, he mentioned my Dad! He said he fought in the Clone Wars!"

" What? NO, your dad wasn't a soldier...he, was....uh...a DRUG DEALLER. Yeah. He ran the navigation system for sleazy low-life criminals. Now shut up and drink your blue milk."

I was always under the impression Han smuggled spice to avoid hefty and unfair imperial taxes and tarrifs for people who wanted to illegal save some bucks on thier businesses.

I'm sure the spice was just one of the many things that GL lifted from "Dune." You're right about the spice frieghter reference. maybe it is like people who run cigarettes without the tax stamp on them. Whatever the case, he was a smuggler. He was stealing from somebody, knowingly. He also was working for an organized crimelord.

None of this is to say that I dislike han. I've always preferred him to Luke, or any of the other principal characters for that matter. To use a modern movie analogy, he's like a better groomed and more sober Jack Sparrow of "Pirates of the Caribbean." He's a likeable guy who looks out for number one, but is a big softy at heart. He's still a pirate. Who knows what he did while he was an active pirate. I doubt he'd wait for anyone else to shoot first either.