Did you like the Episode III: Revenge of the Sith Trailer?

[Kidhuman]

There is a way, some sites have it for dl, and if you have AIM or MSN Messenger I can send it to you

[stillakid]

No evidence? Did you watch AOTC? Sure there is tension between the two, but you don't defy the word of the Council to save your teacher. And how many people tell their teacher they are like a father to them?

Yes, no evidence. Yes, I saw AOTC.
He didn't defy the word of the Council to save his teacher. He was following the babe in that instance. He was ready to sit it out on Tatooine with no qualms. Only when Padme said that she was going, did Anakin "give in" and agree to go as well. It had little to do with saving anyone and more to do with him just trying to get in her pants.

Ben never told Luke that he saw Anakin fly anything. A human child winning a podrace and flying a Naboo starfighter (with no training) is a good indicator of how good a pilot he is and how strong the Force is with him.

Obi Wan didn't know that Anakin was flying in a podrace. All he knew was that Qui Gon was working on getting the parts for the ship.

As for the Naboo ship, it not only took off by accident, it was on autopilot for most of the ride. When Ani did take "control" of it, it was little more than a few "let's see what this does" and "gee, this is fun" moments. His destroying the Federation ship was pure accident, both in him getting in there and then with him firing the missiles. Hardly a case for being a "great pilot."

Yeah, he did. He could have told Qui-Gon "No." Plus, he told Yoda he would train Anakin even if the Council denied it. In AOTC, he seems frustrated because Anakin is headstrong and overconfident rather than unenthusiastic.

No, he didn't. It's not that he does train Anakin that's in question. It's the manner in which it occurs. The OT states that Obi Wan finds Anakin, realizes his potential, then decides on his own to train him because he believes he can do just as good a job as his own teacher (Yoda). The Prequels show something entirely different as Qui Gon finds Anakin, Qui Gon realizes his potential, and Qui Gon makes the choice to train him. Obi Wan reluctantly goes along with the decision because of some ill-realized loyalty to Qui Gon, not because he believes he can do it "just as well as Yoda."

He never said that he discovered Anakin. You're reading things that aren't there. The only thing he implies is that Yoda was a great teacher.

The implication is there. You're ignoring what is there in order to lend support to the Prequel rewriting of the continuity. When you consider each statement on it's own, you could make the argument that Obi Wan did not discover the boy. However, in totality, Obi Wan's description of the events clearly states that he discovers Anakin (at some undetermined point), sees how great a pilot he is, connects the dots that this great piloting is because of his Force potential, then decides to train Anakin on his own believing that he can do it just as well as his own teacher (Yoda) could. This speaks to a younger Ben's immature and rash side which he later warns Luke about repeating. To have it any other way seriously undermines what the original Star Wars story was all about. Lucas didn't fully understand the story that Huyck, Katz, and Kasdan wrote for him. It seems that many so-called "fans" don't either.

The key word there was considered. They would be contradictions IF they had been used, but they weren't, so it doesn't matter. Lucas chose not to include them for a reason..

Yes, considered. But that they were in mind at all suggests that this was the train of thought. Reasons for exclusion range from rewriting of motives (as you suggest) to something as common as streamlining the story for the screen (more likely).

By evidence, do you mean Hayden Christensen, not Sebastian Shaw is the true spirit Anakin Skywalker, as clearly shown in the ROTJ DVD?

Actually, I was suggesting that to see the evidence all you have to do is watch the movie and actually listen to what is said without being entranced by the flashy images.

[stillakid]

Obi-Wan didn't say the first time he saw Anakin was as a pilot. He just said he was already a good pilot when he first met him. Just because he didn't see Anakin in the podrace or in the Naboo fighter doesn't mean he doesn't know about it.

True, my intention isn't to completely exclude reasonable offscreen moments. However, if you connect the dots in Old Ben's explanation he clearly lays down a logic path which starts at him 1) finding Anakin, then 2) seeing him pilot, leading him to 3) realizing that it is the Force potential, then 4) making the choice to train him as a Jedi. Because #1 is accomplished by someone else, #2 NEVER happens, #3 only is possible because of the Midi count (we'll get to that below), and #4 doesn't really happen the way it is said in ROTJ, it is clear that the ROTJ explanation and the Prequel events are mutually exclusive. They can't both be correct, ergo a major contradiction.

If we consider the Midichlorian count sequence and suggest that this is when Obi Wan is "amazed at how strongly the Force was with him," then it is entirely reasonable to inquire as to why he didn't say this directly to Luke in that way. The situation in ROTJ was dire. Luke was the last hope...the last Jedi. Given that, not only was it imperative that Luke have the tangible training necessary to defeat the bad guys, but also that he have all the knowledge known about the Force and how to tap into it. This then begs the question of why didn't Spirit Ben tell Luke about Midichlorians ever? Why didn't Yoda? Instead of saying to Luke, "I was amazed at how strongly the Force was with him" he should have said, "When I first knew your father, we measured his Midichlorian count and it was off the charts. My teacher, Qui Gon Jinn decided to train Anakin but unfortunately he was killed before he could start. I wasn't sure about it, but I reluctantly decided to honor Qui Gonn's wish. I shouldn't have."
A ridiculous monologue for sure, but far more accurate in regards to the events that unfold in the Prequels. Of course Luke would have asked "what are Midichlorians?" just like his dad did so long ago which would have led to another ridiculous explanation scene where either Yoda or Ben describe what Midichlorians are. Which, again, goes to show the distinct differences between the way professional writers construct stories and elements as we see in the OT (Katz, Huyck, and Kasdan) and the way non-writers puke their trains of thought onto the page without concern for the way it may affect everything else that happened or will happen.

[stillakid]

Ummm...you just did.

Yeah, I know. The irony of my reply didn't escape me when I wrote it.

[Mad Slanted Powers]

However, if you connect the dots in Old Ben's explanation he clearly lays down a logic path which starts at him 1) finding Anakin, then 2) seeing him pilot, leading him to 3) realizing that it is the Force potential, then 4) making the choice to train him as a Jedi.

I will admit that after seeing the original trilogy, I had something like this in mind as well, but it doesn't necessarily have to be that way. I had made the same assumptions that you did. But perhaps, as was said on more than one occasion in Episode I, we assumed too much. However, I didn't presume to know exactly how things would turn out. When I learned that the prequels were being made, I was excited because I would finally learn the story of what happened, not because I was going to see a story I already knew. So far, to me anyways, there is nothing contradictory on screen that can't be explained. To you, that may be just making rationalizations to cover up flaws in a bad movie. However, I could say that you are trying to find flaws in a good movie because it doesn't fit with what you had fixed in your mind for all those years. As Yoda said, we must unlearn what we have learned. Or maybe just take a cue from MST3K and repeat to ourselves "it's just a show I really should relax". Which is what I'm going to do now.

[thomasandrea-call]

Yes, no evidence. Yes, I saw AOTC.
He didn't defy the word of the Council to save his teacher. He was following the babe in that instance. He was ready to sit it out on Tatooine with no qualms. Only when Padme said that she was going, did Anakin "give in" and agree to go as well. It had little to do with saving anyone and more to do with him just trying to get in her pants.

Obi Wan didn't know that Anakin was flying in a podrace. All he knew was that Qui Gon was working on getting the parts for the ship.

As for the Naboo ship, it not only took off by accident, it was on autopilot for most of the ride. When Ani did take "control" of it, it was little more than a few "let's see what this does" and "gee, this is fun" moments. His destroying the Federation ship was pure accident, both in him getting in there and then with him firing the missiles. Hardly a case for being a "great pilot."


No, he didn't. It's not that he does train Anakin that's in question. It's the manner in which it occurs. The OT states that Obi Wan finds Anakin, realizes his potential, then decides on his own to train him because he believes he can do just as good a job as his own teacher (Yoda). The Prequels show something entirely different as Qui Gon finds Anakin, Qui Gon realizes his potential, and Qui Gon makes the choice to train him. Obi Wan reluctantly goes along with the decision because of some ill-realized loyalty to Qui Gon, not because he believes he can do it "just as well as Yoda."


The implication is there. You're ignoring what is there in order to lend support to the Prequel rewriting of the continuity. When you consider each statement on it's own, you could make the argument that Obi Wan did not discover the boy. However, in totality, Obi Wan's description of the events clearly states that he discovers Anakin (at some undetermined point), sees how great a pilot he is, connects the dots that this great piloting is because of his Force potential, then decides to train Anakin on his own believing that he can do it just as well as his own teacher (Yoda) could. This speaks to a younger Ben's immature and rash side which he later warns Luke about repeating. To have it any other way seriously undermines what the original Star Wars story was all about. Lucas didn't fully understand the story that Huyck, Katz, and Kasdan wrote for him. It seems that many so-called "fans" don't either.


Yes, considered. But that they were in mind at all suggests that this was the train of thought. Reasons for exclusion range from rewriting of motives (as you suggest) to something as common as streamlining the story for the screen (more likely).


Actually, I was suggesting that to see the evidence all you have to do is watch the movie and actually listen to what is said without being entranced by the flashy images.

You have way to much time on your hands. Although you say you are not picking apart the third movie I beg to differ with you. I have read your rants and would like to say, If you have this amount of negativity without seeing the movie then dont go and see it. It truely puzzle's me when some one claims to be a Star Wars fans but complains because it is not to their expectations. The poll asked a simple question and for you to carry on like this over three pages is no longer about you expressing your thoughts as it becomes more about you picking apart something that you have only seen a 2 minute segment of. Get a life relax and take a deep breath.

[Slicker]

It truely puzzle's me when some one claims to be a Star Wars fans but complains because it is not to their expectations.

I'm not gonna jump into the middle of this argument but just because your a SW fan doesn't mean that you have to like every aspect of the Saga. I personally am not a big fan of AOTC but then again I don't go on and on about not liking it. When Ep. III comes out we'll see if Stilla likes it or not.

[JediTricks]

A simple Yes or No and a short reason why would suffice (like the others did), not a massive nit-picky post about the little things that are "nonsensical," when you haven't even seen the movie.

Rocketboy, don't tell others how to post in here, if you don't like what Stilla has to say, don't read his post, but he has the right to post it, especially when my opening post asks for people's discussions on what they did or didn't like about the trailer. You can bicker with him about the trailer, but please don't tell anybody else how to post.

[JediTricks]

There wasn't much of a flow from element to the next.... The images used weren't terribly interesting or compelling.

I felt the same way as well.

What's with Hayden's eyes?

That one really stuck with me as totally not working, it didn't fit with what we see of Vader later, nor of other Sith like Sidious or Tyrannus, and it seemed cheap to me.

The shot of the volcano is gratutiously drawn out about 4 seconds longer than necessary. I haven't been able to figure out why they did that.

I think the idea was to lend weight to the volcano planet without actually showing anything important going on there, but it didn't track that well for me either, especially with the walking chairs from Ep 1 which seemed out of place.

Unrelated and nonsensical images are placed over Ben's description of what we were told would happen.

That's another one where I agree with ya, it just seemed out of place to say "Vader helped hunt down the Jedi" and then show Ani on a swoop bike in the Tatooine desert - where there are NO other Jedi at the time - looking for his mommy. That and the crazy eyes stuck with me the most in terms of negative aspects of the trailer.

No evidence? Did you watch AOTC? Sure there is tension between the two, but you don't defy the word of the Council to save your teacher. And how many people tell their teacher they are like a father to them?

I was one of the folks who argued in the Ep 2 forum that the "he was a good friend" thing doesn't play out in AOTC. Throughout the film, I don't see any evidence of a friendship, Ani eventually says that Obi-Wan is like a father to him, but that's not friendship, and certainly doesn't sound like the type of relationship Ben was describing in the OT.

Yeah, he did. He could have told Qui-Gon "No."

But that's not taking it upon himself, that's being charged with the duty, a different circumstance.


Vadersvette, I believe the file is streaming, not cached, which makes it much harder to save.

[stillakid]

I will admit that after seeing the original trilogy, I had something like this in mind as well, but it doesn't necessarily have to be that way. I had made the same assumptions that you did. But perhaps, as was said on more than one occasion in Episode I, we assumed too much. However, I didn't presume to know exactly how things would turn out. When I learned that the prequels were being made, I was excited because I would finally learn the story of what happened, not because I was going to see a story I already knew. So far, to me anyways, there is nothing contradictory on screen that can't be explained. To you, that may be just making rationalizations to cover up flaws in a bad movie. However, I could say that you are trying to find flaws in a good movie because it doesn't fit with what you had fixed in your mind for all those years. As Yoda said, we must unlearn what we have learned. Or maybe just take a cue from MST3K and repeat to ourselves "it's just a show I really should relax". Which is what I'm going to do now.

I'd first like to say that I like the way you think. Really.

But I'd also like to say that TPM and AOTC are bad movies anyway without bringing issues of continuity into the discussion. I think overall that what I'm pointing out is vastly misunderstood. It seems as though the perception of others is that I was looking for a story in which there were absolutely no surprises (given that we already know more or less what is supposed to happen). However I don't think that it was an impossible task for Lucas to give us the story that his continuity had established and embellish said story with exciting surprises within it.

According to the OT, we know that Obi Wan Kenobi finds a guy named Anakin, realizes his Force potential, then screws things up beyond belief by choosing to train him because he thinks he can do it just as well as his only teacher, Yoda. To follow that structure implies a bit of rigidity and predictability, however there is a lot of room for exciting details in order for that plot to occur. It's like the movie Titanic. We all know that the ship sinks, but the excitement and drama is built for the audience within the details. Cameron didn't change the outcome of the event just because it would be boring for an audience who already knew how it would end. Lucas didn't need to either.