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  1. #1

    "If you strike me down..."

    Old Ben says to Vader, "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."

    Okay. Sounds ominous. But what did he mean? Apart from being a disembodied voice (ala Jiminy Cricket) and appearing as a ghost, what can a dead Jedi do? Now one cool thing that I noticed was that in ROTJ, Spirit Ben actually sat down on a rock or tree. I would have thought that a spirit might fall right through a tangible object. So that's pretty cool. Powerful? I don't know, but interesting nonetheless...

    So just how powerful can a dead Jedi be?

  2. #2

    Re: "If you strike me down..."

    Powerful enough to whisper in lil' Skywalker's ear to "Use the Force" vs. DS1 but NOT powerful enough to pull the little guy out of the snow.

    Then again, he did serve as a connection to finding Yoda . . .

  3. #3

    Re: "If you strike me down..."

    Ben may have sensed the potential in Luke knowing that he'd be more powerful than himself so he could live vicariously through him. He never said how he would become more powerful just that he would somehow become more powerful.
    Up, up, and OKAAAAY!!!

  4. #4

    Re: "If you strike me down..."

    Using my thesaurus, I have found your answer! It was a great question. This is what I think he meant:
    INVINCIBLE, ABLE-BODIED, INDOMITABLE, VIGOROUS, EFFECTIVE
    INVINCIBLE- can not kill or harm a spiritual being
    ABLE-BODIED- can appear when and where he needs to, even over water
    INDOMITABLE- can not be controlled by anyone
    VIGOROUS- never gets tired, sleepy, or hungry
    EFFECTIVE- guides with insight

    Am I in the ballpark? Yes? No? Feedback please.

    B.
    TDV
    Last edited by TheDarthVader; 01-04-2005 at 01:41 PM.
    One way to out think people is to make them think you think they'll think what you are not really trying to get them to think what you think.

  5. #5

    Re: "If you strike me down..."

    I think Obi-Wan was referring to the fact that he knew he would become one with the Force and retain his identity. In a sense, he would become the Force. That's something more powerful than any living Jedi or Sith can attain. It's also interesting if you think back to Anakin's pledge in AOTC to "stop people from dying." Even though his physical body is gone, Obi-Wan didn't truly "die." He discovered the secret before Anakin could.
    "The boy you trained, gone he is...consumed by Darth Vader." - Yoda, Revenge of the Sith

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  6. #6

    Re: "If you strike me down..."

    I think it is safe to say that Ben was more powerful as a spirit than as a living being.

    As a spirit, he was able to help Luke throughout his development into a Jedi. Vader (and Palpatine) hunted for Luke for years in an attempt to influence him while Ben could be with him all the time.

    1. Ben perhaps saved Luke's life by convincing him to run rather than fight
    on the Death Star.
    2. He convinced Luke to turn off his targeting computer, destroying the
    Death Star, saving the Rebellion, yada yada yada. Living Ben sure
    wouldn't have fit in that cockpit with Luke.
    3. He got Luke to go to Yoda.
    4. He may have convinced Yoda to train Luke (assuming that Yoda really
    wasn't going to train Luke and Ben really convinced Yoda to train him).
    5. He told Luke where to find his sister.

    I think Ben was more powerful dead than alive, but also, Ben was addressing Vader, "more powerful than YOU can possibly imagine". Vader presumably didn't know that Jedi became spirits. For Vader, death might have been the end. Ben was saying, "You can't beat me, because even if you kill me, I will live on, you short sighted idiot."

    Also, perhaps Ben wanted to give Luke a big reason to hate Vader. Maybe Ben knew (or predicted) that eventually Luke would find out Vader was his father and that Vader hadn't really killed him as Obi-wan originally said. Wanting to prevent Luke trying to redeem daddy (as happened, and assuming from Ben's "point of view" Vader could not be redeemed), he gave Luke a real good reason to hate Vader. You can see the payoff of Ben's possible strategy on Cloud City. Vader holds his saber over Luke, "You are beaten. Don't let yourself be destroyed as Obi-wan did." This really ticked Luke off and he gets back into the fight. Seconds later he would land the only blow on Vader he got at Cloud City.
    Last edited by Droid; 01-04-2005 at 02:17 PM.

  7. #7

    Re: "If you strike me down..."

    We better get an explanation of the ghost/Jedi thing in the next movie.
    "No one helped me so why should I help you?" - College professor circa 1999

    By choosing not to decide you still have made a choice.

    I'm in love with the women of Univision.

  8. #8

    Re: "If you strike me down..."

    I agree that at this point, given that Qui-Gon and no Jedi in the prequels disappeared, yes we now need an explanation. However, the original trilogy left no need for an explanation of the ghost/spirit thing.

  9. #9

    Re: "If you strike me down..."

    Quote Originally Posted by stillakid
    Old Ben says to Vader, "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."

    Okay. Sounds ominous. But what did he mean? Apart from being a disembodied voice (ala Jiminy Cricket) and appearing as a ghost, what can a dead Jedi do? Now one cool thing that I noticed was that in ROTJ, Spirit Ben actually sat down on a rock or tree. I would have thought that a spirit might fall right through a tangible object. So that's pretty cool. Powerful? I don't know, but interesting nonetheless...

    So just how powerful can a dead Jedi be?
    What's this? Stillakid actually finding fault with the OT, and not the PT? Well, I never!

    I think he meant that he could do whatever he wanted, and help Luke in more ways than he could in flesh & blood. Luke wouldn't know about Yoda if not for old Ben so I say that's good?
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  10. #10

    Re: "If you strike me down..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Droid
    1. Ben perhaps saved Luke's life by convincing him to run rather than fight
    on the Death Star.
    2. He convinced Luke to turn off his targeting computer, destroying the
    Death Star, saving the Rebellion, yada yada yada. Living Ben sure
    wouldn't have fit in that cockpit with Luke.
    3. He got Luke to go to Yoda.
    4. He may have convinced Yoda to train Luke (assuming that Yoda really
    wasn't going to train Luke and Ben really convinced Yoda to train him).
    5. He told Luke where to find his sister.
    Yeah, but Ben coulda done all that stuff while he was alive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Droid
    Ben was saying, "You can't beat me, because even if you kill me, I will live on, you short sighted idiot."
    But I personally think that that (above) is the gist of it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. JabbaJohnL
    What's this? Stillakid actually finding fault with the OT, and not the PT? Well, I never!
    I'm an equal opportunity critiquer.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. JabbaJohnL
    I think he meant that he could do whatever he wanted, and help Luke in more ways than he could in flesh & blood.
    Yeah, that. But what did he really do as a ghost that he couldn't have done as a living being?

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