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Thread: "I hate you!"

  1. #1

    "I hate you!"

    Anakin seems pretty P.O.'d at Obers at the end of ROTS. He even goes as far as to hiss out the words, "I hate you!" as he burns.

    So we'll give ol' Georgy-poo the benefit of the doubt and say that Anakin is 100% justified in being "upset" with Obers for:

    A) holding him back,
    B) not getting him on the Council,
    C) keeping him from saving mommie,
    D) being too "overly critical,"
    E) not trusting Palpatine
    F) turning Padme against him (Anakin)


    Okay, so nice list there, eh? So here's the question: if Anakin is this pi$4ed off at Obi the very last time he lays his beady little yellow eyes on him, then wouldn't we expect a far harsher reaction from Darth Vader when he realize that Obi Wan is on the Death Star in Episode IV? I mean, he doesn't lay out the fine china or anything, but he isn't exactly seething either. I mean, for cryin' out loud, Obers did all that stuff up above (A through F) and then cut his legs and other arm off! By Anakin's caliente mood, Obers might as well just have cut his wee-wee off too.

    Sure, 20 years (or whatever the F'ck it is now) has gone by so maybe Vader has cooled off a bit, but looking back over their reunion tour on the Death Star, there is a sense of lingering "rage" that is missing given all that Obi apparently did to wrong our lil' Ani-poo.

    The line's essentially go like this:

    VADER
    When I left you, I was but the learner. Now I am the Master.

    and

    Vader
    Your powers are weak, old man!

    and

    Vader
    You should not have come back!

    Does Vader's reaction to Obi Wan in ANH seem far too tame to anyone else given all that Anakin has to apparently "hate" Obers for? No questions about Padme? No goading. No comments about getting left for dead on Mustafar. Nothing at all to "connect" the two trilogies together.

  2. #2

    Re: "I hate you!"

    Over 20 ywars, his hatred is still brewing. One thing Anakin learned from Mustafar was too most likely control his anger during a fight. It nearly cost him his life, his arrogance did. By staying more level headed and using the force as an ally, he is able to defeat Obi-Wan the second time around.
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  3. #3

    Re: "I hate you!"

    Quote Originally Posted by kidhuman
    By staying more level headed and using the force as an ally, he is able to defeat Obi-Wan the second time around.
    surprising, since Obi-Wan had the classic spin around move. no jedi or sith can match that skill. but your answer does make sense. Vader became stronger in the force throughout the years and when he finally confronted Obi for the last time, he was more patient and content with the force. so as you stated, he was letting the force guide him other than his feelings. hs feelings might have lead him into another defeat.
    [FONT=Century Gothic]That day in Theed I feel so far from what I was. When I came to rest all I could see was you. But I rose from my ruin to find myself greater. And all the days since have been to your end! - Maul [/FONT]
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  4. #4

    Re: "I hate you!"

    Well, Obi-Wan did have a hand in that "victory" by Vader since he stood there and let himself be cut down for the greater good.

  5. #5

    Re: "I hate you!"

    Even before the prequels, I believed that Darth Vader's connection to the Dark Side and the source of his immense hatred came from self-hatred. He knows he's done horrible, wrong things, and he hates himself so much for it. He's fallen into an endless cycle with the Dark Side that he believes there's no getting out of.

    Now, Vader hasn't quite come to terms with this yet in Revenge of the Sith, and he's still looking to blame everyone else for his choices. Hence, his immense hatred of Obi-Wan and his declaration of "I hate you!!"

    By the time A New Hope comes around, Darth Vader has lived with his choices for 19 years, and I think he has a better understanding of his fate. He realizes that he made the wrong choice. Now, he wallows in self-pity and self-hatred. Notice that the OT Vader doesn't go around blaming others for his situation, but he does bemoan about how "it's too late for me" and how he can't change what's happened.

    With that rationale, it's very believable that Vader would not be some raving lunatic when confronting Obi-Wan on the Death Star.
    "The boy you trained, gone he is...consumed by Darth Vader." - Yoda, Revenge of the Sith

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  6. #6

    Re: "I hate you!"

    See, I think that the disconnect between the Prequel and the OT is that the OT Vader didn't get that angry at Obi Wan. Obi Wan was just the last of his prey after he "helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights." Or at least Obi was in the way at some point as he tried to save him ("Obi Wan once thought as you do.") We never really get the sense that Obi Wan tried to "save" Anakin, at least not enough to warrant that line of dialogue.

    In any case, Vader's reasoning for going bezerk should never have hinged so much on Obi Wan to the point that he'd seeth, "I hate you!" It just doesn't jive with the Vader we all thought we knew and loved.

  7. #7

    Re: "I hate you!"

    Why do people have to inflate their own opinions by saying "we" instead of "I" ?

    Not just you stillakid, this isn't an attack on your comment but just a general statement. Like in other posts on these forums when people review something and say "this makes you feel this way" or something like that.

  8. #8

    Re: "I hate you!"

    As I was saying in another thread I don't get why Anakin 'hates' Obi-wan by the end of ROTS. I don't think it was built up convincingly. In that thread SithLord 0498's last word to me was that Obi-wan had just cut off his legs and left him a torso. I'm not even convinced that that is reason enough to hate Obi-wan. Sure there'd be an initial emotional outburst of rage (which might explain why he 'said' "I hate you!!") but I don't think it could be considered to be 'real' hatred once rationality took over again. Surely Vaders attitude should then be "he beat me, fair enough, but it'll be different next time". But no hatred, if Vader also takes into account the last conversation they had while on good terms, their prior offscreen and onscreen adventures etc etc.

    Its really tough to think about actually because if I am to be convinced that Anakin has good reason to hate Obi-wan then maybe Obi-wan would have to be portrayed as a complete wa*ker - and I don't want that. I just think it would have been better had the "i hate you" line been left out or replaced.

    As to Vader and his dialogue in ANH. I suppose he could be seething with hatred for Obi-wan and he just is more adept at disguising or curbing it having had 20 years to mature. Or maybe the healing power of time made him hate Obi-wan a little bit less than he used to. He did express gladness (if thats a word) that Obi-wan was dead in the line "this will be a day long remembered - it has seen the end of kenobi and will soon see the end of the rebellion" and was certainly not hesitant in cutting him down once Obi-wan relinquished the fight.

  9. #9

    Re: "I hate you!"

    anakin allows his hatred and fear to cloud his judgment in attack of the clones and revenge of the sith. when vader confronts obi-wan on the death star he has learned to control these impulses. he even commends luke on bespin by saying "you have learned to control your fear, obi-wan has taught you well.

    obi-wan during his encounter with anakin on mustephar (sp?)admits his failure regarding this. he tells anakin that he has failed him. anakin's blurting out that he hates obi-wan is driectly related to how he never learned to control his fear and anger, and that is indeed how obi-wan failed him. obi-wan admits this failure to luke in return of the jedi. ithought i could train him as yoda had trained me, but i was wrong.

    after seeing the movie for a 2nd time (today), i am actually better satified with the bridge from the prequels to the ot. there were subtle references, that i had missed the 1st time around. i now feel that gl, actually did a good job of completing the circle of the saga.
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  10. #10

    Re: "I hate you!"

    Quote Originally Posted by stillakid
    See, I think that the disconnect between the Prequel and the OT is that the OT Vader didn't get that angry at Obi Wan. Obi Wan was just the last of his prey after he "helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights." Or at least Obi was in the way at some point as he tried to save him ("Obi Wan once thought as you do.") We never really get the sense that Obi Wan tried to "save" Anakin, at least not enough to warrant that line of dialogue.

    In any case, Vader's reasoning for going bezerk should never have hinged so much on Obi Wan to the point that he'd seeth, "I hate you!" It just doesn't jive with the Vader we all thought we knew and loved.
    The Vader we all know and love does not yet "exist" even at the end of ROTS. His cold, calculated ways are honed over 18 years. The Vader we see in ROTS is a young, rage filled Vader who has just opened himself up to the full power of the darkside. He's overwhelmed, borderline insane. He's also just been chopped to bits and left for dead in intense pain by his "brother". I'd say "I hate you" is quite appropriate. 20 years is a long time. Violent rage turns into cold malice as one grows older, and I would think it is safe to assume that Vader has done a fair bit of "moving forward" in those twenty years.

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