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  1. #1

    I have the chance to show a 22 year-old dude the Star Wars films for his first time!

    What will someone seeing them in Episode Order think?

    Did you guys know that there were GUYS out there who are around our age who have never seen ANY Star Wars movie?

    I'll ask him why and post his answer here as well.

    I took it for granted he'd seen the other films. He is a buddy of mine I work out with and part of my "Strike Team" posse for Tuesday Night showings of "The Shield" (F/X Emmy Award winning cop show in gang-land Los Angeles).

    He's seen my SW collection but never been too interested. I always assumed that was because he'd seen the stuff and it bored him, would cost him too much to collect, or he just wasn't a fan. It never occured to me that he hadn't seen the movies!

    But I will seek clarity: if he's never seen ANY of the movies, or just not any of the prequels.

    But I DO think it's NONE of them!

    Tonight he has time to watch The Phantom Menace. I know he is busy with his college summer school courses, but how soon will he want to see Attack of the Clones if TPM is his first SW exposure?

    Does episode order work for adults.

    TPM is more a kids' movie, with the story very intentionally getting darker and staying darker until ROTJ's Ewoks. TPM and a lot of AOTC were meant to show how the galaxy was before the war came - and what Jedi were like before they were generals or hunted-down exiles.


    So will my friend proceed to watch all the movies? ROTS may be seen by him in the theater, but we do have the option of the bootleg DVD if I can borrow it from my friend - but I'm seeing it again in the theater regardless. Therefore I'd prefer it if my new Star Wars pal sees the show on the big screen and wished he could actually see all the shows that way...

    Oh well.

    Anyway, now we have the chance to get an adult's response who is not comparing any childhood memories of loving the classics to the newness of the prequels, none of that.

    We'll see how he likes it all. What he's interested in watching and knowing about. Who his favorite characters are, etc.


    BTW, after everything, and she'd seen the classics once a long time ago, my girlfriend, having just watched the prequels with me and ROTS in the theater with me twice, prefers the Original Trilogy.

    She does not like Anakin.
    She likes Obi-Wan throughout all the movies.
    She thinks Palpatine steals the show in ROTS.
    She loves Yoda in all the movies, ROTS and ESB the most.
    She thinks Princess Leia rocks way more than Padme.
    She likes Luke.
    She loves Han Solo.

    I think she likes ESB and ROTJ the best. And she really does love Ewoks!



    I will keep you updated on the newest initiate to our cult.

    Stay tuned...

  2. #2

    Re: I have the chance to show a 22 year-old dude the Star Wars films for his first time!

    Naturally, I feel episode order is the absolute wrong way to go, I think if you read what I put together in this thread:
    http://forums.sirstevesguide.com/showthread.php?t=28846
    you'll see why. In a nutshell though, the Star Wars trilogy was about telling the "story told a thousand times over the past few thousand years", spinning together those special myths in a manner that could appeal to modern audiences through the use of the perfection of the 1940s movie serial sci-fi genre. Characters were based off of archetypes so they would be easily recognizable and familiar to audiences so those audiences could get on with a story told in an unfamiliar setting, and those characters had very small backstories which were written only to help tell the story of the OT. The serial aspect was there to let audiences know that they never were going to know what came before, they missed Episode 3 and had to jump in without almost any set-up. However, I feel that the prequels do away with all of this, there aren't using character archetypes, there is no mythos spinning together, there is no simplicity, so the prequels are more an EU-style reward for existing Star Wars fans who wanted a little more "fun" or something, therefore if you start someone at Episode I, you would actually be taking away from the entire point of the original Star Wars - you may love Shadows of the Empire, but you know it's not really what the Star Wars movies are about. That's my feeling anyway.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "In Brooklyn, a castle, is where dwell I"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  3. #3

    Re: I have the chance to show a 22 year-old dude the Star Wars films for his first time!

    OK: He'd never seen ANY Star Wars movie before, and I showed him EPISODE ONE first.

    It is only minutes after my friend went home after seeing the movie.

    I had the chance to take note of his first impressions and can write them before I can forget anything:


    1) He said it was definitely good. He liked it and would surely want to watch the rest of the Star Wars films.

    2) He said it was not the best movie he'd ever seen, but it was entertaining.

    3) He thought the Niemoidians talked like and represented Asians.

    4) He liked JarJar Binks and thought he was funny and laughed at his antics in the beginning (on Naboo).

    5) On JarJar, he later found him annoying as he said his antics just kept going on and on - (Tatooine). During the final battle, it was a mixed lot. "General JarJar - wesa think of somethin!" - "I give up! I give up!" cracked him up.

    6) On a final analysis of JarJar - it was funny, but too much. A little less would have worked for him - but not eliminating the character's antics altogether.

    7) He guessed that Padme was the Queen when she wanted to accompany Qui-Gon on Tatooine. I didn't acknowledge that one way or the other. Then during the scene when Anakin goes looking for her on Coruscant and meets the Queen, he thought that maybe he'd been wrong. Later when Padme reveals her true identity to Boss Nass, he was once again happy to have had that mystery to think about.

    8) He liked Padme / Queen Amidala's character and thought she was cute.

    9) He thought the film was "old school style" in that when Qui-Gon was killed, he had 10 more minutes to live just so he could give his "last dying words." Perhaps a modern show would rob a character of that to make it more tragic. However, since I have hindsight (forsight) whatever, I know that was done to allow Obi-Wan to pledge to train Anakin.

    10) What he really liked:

    - The space battle at the end

    - The Pod Race

    - The lightsaber duel between Obi-Wan and Darth Maul

    - The blaster battle between the droids and Padme and her guards


    11) What he wanted:

    The Naboo to fight the Trade Federation invasion in the beginning when Queen Amidala said "I will not condone a course of action that will lead us to war."


    12) He was completely oblivious to Palpatine! He did not pick up on the political story at all, or think Palpatine was scheming, evil, or even corrupt - that I could tell. He made no comments about Palpatine at all! Watching Palpatine's revelation could be fun with this one!

    13) All he'd seen of any Star Wars movie that he recalls was a glimpse of someone walking through the desert. He thinks he remembers seeing a part of the pod race, but cannot be sure. He might have remembered C-3PO walking through the desert for all we know.

    14) He has no idea that Anakin Skywalker will become Darth Vader!

    15) He has no idea that the other movies are darker, more adult, and get better. I can see how he'll rank them. He already wants to keep watching. My guess is that he'll find AOTC to be better than TPM. Between those two, wouldn't you guess that as well? He'll have nothing else to compare them to.

    Keep in mind that he's 22. This is possibly a perfect experiment.

    We will watch Episode 2 probably Thursday or Friday, as his summer school requires a lot of work on research papers and a group project. Summer classes for college credit compact a lot. I remember those. Tough times.

    But he missed last week's "Shield" and I have to tape that (on Monday's rerun) and possibly Tuesday night's for him unless he can break away to watch them both on Tuesday. My guess is that "The Shield" will take priority over Star Wars for him because he's been a fan of the cop show for far longer and he has more invested in those characters and its build up to the season finale.

    Meanwhile, I'd welcome your guys' opinions on his reaction to THE PHANTOM MENACE.

    I'll answer questions too if I can.

  4. #4

    Re: I have the chance to show a 22 year-old dude the Star Wars films for his first time!

    Good job, Tycho !

    One bit of advice though, DON'T tell this newbie that there is a whole internet subculture of devoted fans involved, or he might be turned off on account of the creepiness factor.

  5. #5

    Re: I have the chance to show a 22 year-old dude the Star Wars films for his first ti

    This guy is indeed a rare find Tycho. I don't agree with you're showing him the Prequels first, but to each his own. I hope everything pans out well with this one and that he joins the rest of us nuts in worshipping the Holy Saga.
    Up, up, and OKAAAAY!!!

  6. #6

    Re: I have the chance to show a 22 year-old dude the Star Wars films for his first ti

    I agree with Slicker, you should have started with the OT.

    That way, when he gets to the best movie in the saga, Revenge of the Sith, he doesn't have to move down to a not-as-great movie when he watches the next episode.

  7. #7

    Re: I have the chance to show a 22 year-old dude the Star Wars films for his first time!

    See, to me the perfect experiment would involve getting a Clone of this Padawan, and showing the other the OT first. What I'd want to compare would be the reactions of both newbies to the following:

    OT vs. PT lightsaber play. Would the new fan seeing the PT first be let down by the old-school saber battles?

    "No, Luke. I am your father." To me, Tycho, this is where you're robbing the poor guy. No offence, but this is the crux of Star Wars for me, the ultimate moment. If only, IF ONLY it hadn't been spoiled for me as a kid by some schoolyard idiot, I may have fainted in the theater. The fact that this surprise will be ruined for him is very sad. You'll have to seek out another virgin to sacrifice.

    OT vs. PT space battles. I think this is one aspect where the quality of the space battles is going to get better and better for newbie as the episodes progress. To me, Ep I is redundant. EpII is almost non-existant, and EpIII starts with a bang. The OT, though, is where the space battles and chases are truly exciting and climactic parts of the movies.

    Preference between Padme and Leia. Padme might be a little cuter, but Leia's character was just WAY stronger and more interesting. The more I watch the the OT the more I like Princess Leia - sadly, I don't care for Padme at all.

    Opinions on the settings. For someone who watches the PT first, will the settings in the OT seem a little boring? Hoth will still be very fresh, but he will have seen lots of forest by the time Endor roles around. I'm sure the gang at Lucasfilm was challenged by the job of keeping the new planets fresh and interesting - there's only so many environments on earth to base alien ones on.

    Opinions on the "appearance of technology" in the trilogies. Will the newbie find it weird that the displays and technology in ANH look completely Flintstonian compared to the beautiful detailed holo-displays that are commonplace in the PT - which took place 30 years earlier?

    Either way, for the love of God, you have to show him the NON-SE version of A New Hope. Han shot first, Tycho. Han shot fiiiiiiiiiiiiirrrrrrrrrst!!!!!!!!!!
    GOLDEN DEUCE AWARD WINNER & MABUCON ATTENDEE 2008

  8. #8

    Re: I have the chance to show a 22 year-old dude the Star Wars films for his first ti

    Quote Originally Posted by jjreason
    "No, Luke. I am your father." To me, Tycho, this is where you're robbing the poor guy. No offence, but this is the crux of Star Wars for me, the ultimate moment. If only, IF ONLY it hadn't been spoiled for me as a kid by some schoolyard idiot, I may have fainted in the theater. The fact that this surprise will be ruined for him is very sad. You'll have to seek out another virgin to sacrifice.
    This is the one point on why I would've shown him the OT first. This is quite possibly the biggest shocker in movie history. Seeing Anakin turn into Vader in the PT just wasn't played that big because Lucas made the Prequels KNOWING that people already knew who Vader used to be so he didn't play it as such. It's good that you could share SW with him but you should've done it right and started where everyone else started, with ANH. That's just my opinion though.
    Up, up, and OKAAAAY!!!

  9. #9

    Re: I have the chance to show a 22 year-old dude the Star Wars films for his first time!

    Your points about Vader's secret identity are well taken. Before I knew anything about ROTS, walking out of AOTC, I thought:

    - Anakin would be kicked out of the Jedi Order for marrying and become Palpatine's bodyguard (so the 2nd part sort of happened)

    - Obi-Wan would get a new apprentice, plagued by difficulties coming of age during the war (and it's left uncertain if this apprentice is really killed).

    - It's made to look like Anakin dies on Mustafar for certain. Vader could then be Obi-Wan's 2nd apprentice, as a scene between Vader and Obi-Wan where Obi-Wan is given "a last chance to escape for old time's sake" and a warning to never come back would cloud people's certainty (who see the films in episode order) as to Vader's identity until ESB. Lucas opted not to go that route.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ceasar
    I agree with Slicker, you should have started with the OT.

    That way, when he gets to the best movie in the saga, Revenge of the Sith, he doesn't have to move down to a not-as-great movie when he watches the next episode.
    Yes, but this way we get to find out if that will be the case: will he be disappointed in the Original Trilogy?

    Quote Originally Posted by jjreason
    See, to me the perfect experiment would involve getting a Clone of this Padawan, and showing the other the OT first.
    Yes, but that's ALL OF US. We already know how that turns out. Most of our group seem to be Original Trilogy lovers primarily, with some strong positive feelings about Revenge of the Sith.

    Some amongst us are old-school fans who like the Prequels better or on par (I like them on par) with the Original Trilogy.

    Some like Stillakid, almost hate the Prequel Trilogy, and JediTricks is saying "they aren't Star Wars." So we have that reaction.

    Stillakid was shown the OT first, then he saw the Prequel Trilogy. And now we get his opinion on it.

    One thing that's different is that ALL OF YOU fell in love with Star Wars' Original Trilogy as KIDS and filed these movies away as classics for yourselves because of your childhood impression of them. Then you saw a more childish movie TPM, as an adult, while you were waiting in line for hours expecting something more dark and mature like ANH.

    Let's see where my experimental subject finds his tastes leading him towards.

    BTW: DO YOU GUYS THINK HE'LL LIKE AOTC BETTER THAN TPM? You haven't responded to that.

    OT vs. PT lightsaber play. Would the new fan seeing the PT first be let down by the old-school saber battles?
    Maybe. But if you watched them in order, with no EU information, you'd wonder how well the robotic Vader can function - if he's as inept as General Grievous with a lightsaber now. (come'on, Grievous had 4 and Obi-Wan was going to literally disarm him one by one if Obi-Wan hadn't decided to not waste any more time with him once the Clones attacked.)

    You'd also know that Luke was Vader's son, and while you were waiting for Luke to discover that, you might think based on Anakin's/Vader's character and his dedication to his family, THAT HE WAS NOT EVER TRYING TO KILL LUKE.

    You'd also think and even by ROTJ, see, that Luke never had as much skill as the Jedi of old, but had a raw, untrained style. Luke was at his best during the attack on Jabba's sailbarge where the Force was just taking over him.

    "No, Luke. I am your father." To me, Tycho, this is where you're robbing the poor guy. No offence, but this is the crux of Star Wars for me, the ultimate moment.
    So what will be the crux to him? That's what we're going to find out. Which movie will shock him the most? I think with his attraction to Padme's character, when she dies in ROTS, that will start him. I also think that Palpatine's revelation will surprise him. He doesn't see Palpatine coming.

    You'll have to seek out another virgin to sacrifice.
    For "Luke, I am your father?" - I have all of you. I didn't see ESB in the theaters for the first time with you - but I reacted to that the same year you guys did. I know how I felt "No that's not true! That's impossible!" and you guys know and can post with certainty how you felt.

    OT vs. PT space battles. I think this is one aspect where the quality of the space battles is going to get better and better for newbie as the episodes progress. To me, Ep I is redundant. EpII is almost non-existant, and EpIII starts with a bang. The OT, though, is where the space battles and chases are truly exciting and climactic parts of the movies.
    I agree. The OT gave us pilots we really cared about: Luke and Wedge, Lando in the final movie's addition. I think Lucas intentionally left them superior. ROTJ is still one of the best space battles ever filmed! While ROTS had a hot space battle scene, I think they didn't do more (with ARC fighters etc.) because if they just showed our heroes crash landing on Grievous' ship it wouldn't out-do our later heroes actually destroying a whole battle station, and then another one with an Imperial Fleet to boot with it.

    If my experimental subject liked space battles, ROTS, ANH, the asteroid field in ESB, and especially ROTJ will be a huge treat!

    Preference between Padme and Leia. Padme might be a little cuter, but Leia's character was just WAY stronger and more interesting. The more I watch the the OT the more I like Princess Leia - sadly, I don't care for Padme at all.
    Except that she does like Padme's character - this is my girlfriend's reaction as well. She totally thinks Leia is smarter, more deliberate, stronger, and Leia is always right. Her mother made the gravest of errors in trusting Anakin and Palpatine. (My girlfriend really connects to female characters almost exclusively, so she needs a strong leading lady. Again, Leia does that for her, Padme does not.)

    Opinions on the settings. For someone who watches the PT first, will the settings in the OT seem a little boring? Hoth will still be very fresh, but he will have seen lots of forest by the time Endor roles around.
    Possibly. Maybe the OT will seem like it's supposed to: the heroes are refugees of Palpatine's regime and they are hiding out in places that are nowhere. With the OT Special Editions though, you forget how "updated" they made Cloud City. I think Bespin has a lot more to offer in terms of looking like it matches the modern sets of the Prequel Trilogy. Tatooine looks the same - Mos Espa/Mos Eisley/ The moisture farm - same difference. Hoth and Endor are Hoth and Endor. Hoth is unique in the entire saga. Dagobah and Endor are not any more or less impressive than Naboo (and it's Gungan swamps) so they'll fit alright.

    I will not prompt my friend to say anything, but we'll see if he does.

    Oh - last but hardly least, the Death Star is a unique environment, but is a closed-up space station (with TIE Fighters but not much else in the way of air traffic and scenic views).

    Opinions on the "appearance of technology" in the trilogies. Will the newbie find it weird that the displays and technology in ANH look completely Flintstonian compared to the beautiful detailed holo-displays that are commonplace in the PT - which took place 30 years earlier?
    Again, that goes with the settings. Trade Federation MTTs had repulsar lifts, so does Luke's landspeeder. The Sandcrawler was even bigger than an MTT. The Rebel's ships are held together with spit and chewing gum. Palpatine has all the money and spends it on less costly ships (TIEs vs V-wings) once he needs more and more of them, produced more quickly.

    The Naboo Starships were for the wealthy and powerful. Han Solo owned a tramp freighter. Luke said "What a piece of junk!"

    Star Destroyers and Republic Victory Class Destroyers are about the same.

    Clones are improvements over battle droids.

    Holograms and viewscreens?

    We didn't see Mas Ameeda appear on the Tantive IV in ANH - but we didn't need to.

    Leia's "Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi" was any worse than Sidious' "Not for a Sith!" hologram? Neither she, nor Palpatine, or Luke's holo in Jabba's Palace were sitting, so we didn't need a holo of a Jedi Council.

    The tactical screens on Geonosis, R2's holo of Theed, etc were not affordable or needed in ANH or ESB. The Rebels had only what they could afford anyway. In ROTJ, they had a pretty sweet hologram of the Death Star that was likely a copy of the same one Dooku had on Geonosis. Well, technologicall speaking. They were different Death Stars of course.

    Either way, for the love of God, you have to show him the NON-SE version of A New Hope. Han shot first, Tycho. Han shot fiiiiiiiiiiiiirrrrrrrrrst!!!!!!!!!!
    I know, but he likes space battles and the SE ANH space battle is so much superior to the original. Jabba's also in the SE DVD, and looks good to me too. Besides, this experiment is to show him "Star Wars Today."

    I hate Greedo shooting first more than any other SE change (most of which I don't hate but rather like).


    Seeing Anakin turn into Vader in the PT just wasn't played that big because Lucas made the Prequels KNOWING that people already knew who Vader used to be so he didn't play it as such.
    We don't know how he'll react to ROTS and Anakin's fall. Will he foresee it by Episode 2 when "I killed them. I killed them all. And not just the men. But the women, and the children, too! They're like animals. And I slaughtered them like animals! I HATE THEM!!!"

    Anyway, I've made my other points. No need to be redundant. I'll respond to your new posts and be sure to update you as soon as he's seen AOTC.

  10. #10

    Re: I have the chance to show a 22 year-old dude the Star Wars films for his first time!

    This is very interesting. I can't believe he doesn't know that Anakin is Darth Vader! I thought that was a big part of popular culture - or at least, "I am your father." It's cool that he doesn't know about Palpatine and Sidious. It'll be fun to see how this experiment pans out.
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