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Thread: Reading!

  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by El Chuxter
    Kavalier and Clay's a good one. Hadn't heard about Nat being in the film version.
    It's a recent development from the last few days.
    From the author's website:
    The fate of this project--whether it will move at last from the nebulousness of pre-pre-production into really-truly pre-production, with a budget and cast and everything, will be decided on or around 12 July 2006. Miss Natalie Portman is a strong likelihood for the part of Rosa; other casting is ongoing, as are work on the script (a lot of cutting) and tests conducted by a number of top-drawer animation studios (for the comic book elements). Quick answers (as of this date): Golem: yes. Antarctica: yes. Gay love story: yes. Ruins of World's Fair: no. Long Island: no. Orson Welles: no. Salvador Dali: yes. Loving reference to Betty and Veronica: no. Stan Lee: no.
    [FONT=Book Antiqua]He passes to Moses - He shoots, he scores![/FONT]
    Mummy of the raincoat is a gigantic trollop.
    DOMINATE!


  2. #82
    Wow. I hope I'm not spoiling much for you, RB, but to take out Stan (and the other real-life Golden Age creators who cameo) seems a bit wrong. At least they had the guts to leave in the love story. (And, truthfully, we can probably thank the success of Brokeback Mountain for that.)

    I just finished reading Maus (both volumes). I picked up Volume II at a going-out-of-business sale several months ago, but the store didn't have Volume I. It arrived in the mail today (after I finally ordered it online) and it's not a work that is easily put down. Three and a half hours later, I want to personally thank Spiegelman for writing this masterpiece. It's not the Schindler's List of comics (it doesn't leave you with the same gut-wrenching feeling of emptiness), but easily on par with The Pianist, a moving, profound character study against the backdrop of the Holocaust. Even if you don't normally read comics--and especially if you do and haven't read this--you owe it to yourself to read it ASAP.
    Tommy, close your eyes.

  3. #83
    Couldn't agree more with Maus.
    Maus is the kind of comic that people who think comics are kiddie stuff should read.
    [FONT=Book Antiqua]He passes to Moses - He shoots, he scores![/FONT]
    Mummy of the raincoat is a gigantic trollop.
    DOMINATE!


  4. #84
    My problem with Maus is the same one I have with most WWII fiction. There was a great deal more happening than a mass killing.

    So, anyone know how Hitler came to power? (Hint: He was a popular leader.) That is as, if not more, important than the pogroms that followed.

  5. #85
    Absolutely. Hitler was arrested and sentenced to death at one point, and yet still took power because he had incredible charisma (I've heard stories of German Jews who snuck into rallies to see what the big deal was about, and the guy apparently had even them almost buying his anti-Semitism) and because he touched a deeply-rooted bigotry throughout Europe and was able to shift the blame for the immense mistakes of the post-WWI government.

    There are definitely stories to be told from that angle. But that isn't the point of Maus, or Schindler's Ark/List (depending upon whether you're reading or watching), or most other tales (both factual and fictional) from the Holocaust. Their intent, insomuch as the German conquest and Holocaust is concerned, is to put a human face on the tragedy, to hammer home the fact that civilization can never allow such events to happen again.

    These stories are supposed to, no matter how incredible soul-crushing they may seem, have a hopeful tone--some people, no matter how few, survived what happened, and they (and further generations) have the power to educate the world.

    A story about Hitler's rise to power would, by necessity, have to be an examination of a truly dark side to human nature--the side of humanity that most Holocaust stories are, by their very nature, opposed to.

    BTW, I'm not sure to what degree it was fictionalized (I assume some minor details were changed, and, of course, the characters are animals and not humans), but Maus is a biography of Art Spiegelman's father, Vladek, not a fully fictionalized work.
    Tommy, close your eyes.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Dominic Guglieme
    So, anyone know how Hitler came to power? (Hint: He was a popular leader.) That is as, if not more, important than the pogroms that followed.
    Oh, boy you've opened a pandoras box with me. To add to what Chux said I shall add what will no doubts turn into a novel. Ready? Here goes.

    Hitler served in the German army during the Great War. It is proven fact that he was a good soldier and even won the iron cross second class (an award rarely given to enlisted. Hitler rose to the rank of Corporal) and in 1918 Hitler was the victim of a gas attack (the one reason many think he didn't use gas during WWII) and it was under these conditions in a hospital recovering that he heard of the surrender of the German forces.

    Early in his career he made much of the "November Criminals", the people that signed the surrender papers and were in the government, and the "stab in the back" theory (i.e. the German nation was stabbed in the back by its own leadership). Both were widely accepted by the German nation even before Hitler hammered them into there heads.

    Skipping details I'll move to 1923 when Hitler and the Nazi party attempted to take over the Berlin by means of a putsch (coup). They marched on the capital and were fired on by police. Hitler was arrested and put in Landsberg prison where he dictated Mein Kampf to Rudolf Hess (future Deputy Fuehrer who flew to England in 1941 to get peace terms) and several others.

    Upon his release he found the party in shambles with much infighting and many of the leaders either in prison or in exile (Goering was in Switzerland and Ernst Rohm was in Italy I believe). The party was worse off than when he took over and to add to it the world economy, and more importantly, the German economy were improving. This was a blow to a party such as the Nazis who thrived on the poverty and fears of the populace. With the economy doing better people were less inclined to join a party that put blame on the government. Hitler slowly rebuilt the party until, in 1929, the stock market crashed. This was just the even that Hitler, and the Nazi party, needed. The Germans started defaulting on war reparation payments and the value of the German mark fell sharply (I think at one point it took 4 BILLION Reichsmarks to equal $1 US).

    The Nazi party was in business. During the ensuing election years the Nazis steadily gained more seats in the Reichstag (German parliment basically) and in 1931 (I think) they gained the most seats out of all of the parties but were still short of a majority rule.

    Fast forward again to January 30, 1933 when Hitler was made Chancellor by German President and WWI hero Paul von Hindenburg. This was a big step forward but Hitler dare not more against the president for the German people still loved the old man (he was nearing 90). The following year Hindenburg died and Hitler immediately declared himself president of Germany and thus had his grip. Certainly in the early years he was tested but come the beginning of the war no group dare encroach on his power (Hitler had long made Germany a one political party state).

    The only real threat to his power came on July 20, 1944 when the German generals attempted to assinate him. Hitler miraculously lived and went on a killing spree. In total 3 field marshals, many generals and lower ranking officers, and many of the conspirators families met a grisley demise. Hitler had many of the conspirators strung up by piano wire on meat hooks and let them die a slow death. After the July 20th bomb plot no one dare oppose Hitler. And, although the war was clearly lost, Hitler never lost his complete control over the country and the people continued to blindly adore him.


    As you can tell I voraciously read most anything about the war and I retain dates and facts to an almost ridiculous point.


    I realize that you probably knew the answer to your own question (hence the hint) but just in case I figured I'd go off.
    Up, up, and OKAAAAY!!!

  7. #87
    Yeah, and before that, Hitler wanted to be an artist.
    [FONT=Book Antiqua]He passes to Moses - He shoots, he scores![/FONT]
    Mummy of the raincoat is a gigantic trollop.
    DOMINATE!


  8. #88
    I was actually considering earlier asking Slick if he (or "you" if this is Slicker reading) bought into the theory that, had Hitler's career as an artist not totally crashed and burned, World War II would either not have happened or been a very, very different conflict.
    Tommy, close your eyes.

  9. #89
    just finished SW Dark Rendezvous last night. The book was alright, though took me a while to finish as I onyl read bits and pieces here and there.

    Next up Zahn's Outbound Flight, which has been collecting dust and begging to be opened since the day it came out.
    Hasbro, Wuher needs help, bring us Ackmena http://www.petitiononline.com/Ackmena/petition.html

    Kenobi must be the Smith or Johnson of Tatooine

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Banthaholic
    just finished SW Dark Rendezvous last night. The book was alright, though took me a while to finish as I onyl read bits and pieces here and there.

    Next up Zahn's Outbound Flight, which has been collecting dust and begging to be opened since the day it came out.
    Those are two good SW books, Banthaholic, although I preferred the Yoda novel better. You will find that O.F. may leave more questions unanswered than cleared up (I won't spolierize it for you, but there is a thread in this section you can check or reply to when you're done).
    "That's what Sheev said."

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