One detail about the showdown in Palpy's office STILL bugs me

[El Chuxter]

Okay, so Palpatine kills Sassy, Kit, and Agen without blinking, thus ensuring that fashion sense, grins, and the ability to kinda sorta pass for Eeth Koth are gone from the Jedi Council forever.

Then he's getting his butt kicked by Mace and Anakin walks in. Yadda yadda yadda, Mace is killed, Palpatine turns into a wretched mess of bad makeup effects, Anakin becomes Vader.

Soooooo. . . .

Immediately afterwards, Palpatine tells Anakin that he must kill everyone in the Temple and that he himself will deal with the other Jedi. And the he tells Anakin to go to the Mustafar system, where he must kill the Separatist leaders.

Uhhhh. . . . ?

The entire "turning to evil" thing in the film hinges upon Anakin's loyalty to the Jedi vs his loyalty to Palpatine and the Republic. He's just been told that the Jedi have betrayed the Republic and is all gung-ho on killing them off.

When Palpatine gives away the fact that he knows far more about the Separatists than he's been letting on, why doesn't Anakin stop and say, "Dude, you're full of crap. I'm just going to take my chances standing trial for cutting Mace in two." Or even just, "Uh, Chancellor, how the hell do you know that?"

If nothing else, when Nute is begging for his life on Mustafar, why doesn't Anakin say, "Woah, man, hold up a second. I'm still going to kill you because you're a d****bag, but what's all this jibber-jabber about you working for Sidious?"

[JimJamBonds]

I think Ani wanted any knowledge he could get to save Padders at that point that he wasn't really thinking about who all did what. As he said to Palps "just help me save Padme, I can't live without her."

[2-1B]

And he wasn't even all that loyal, considering he was ready to turn on Palps anyway.

Remember Chux, when Palps lets slip the location of General Grievous, the Council questions Anakin as to how that info was learned and Anakin recites the "intercepted diplomatic packet from the leader of Utapau" so the same would hold here, I believe. Kenobi had already killed Grievous, so the information could have been picked up during that encounter and Skywalker wouldn't know for sure how Palps knew about Mustafar.

But really, why did it have to be a secret as to their whereabouts in the first place ? Earlier, Padme was asking Anakin to get Palps to open negotiations so it wouldn't be absolutely impossible to get in touch with them.

Regarding Palps vs. Mace, I think it's a combination of things . . . listening to the commentary last night, George originally made it so that Mace had him beat solid and was going to kill him but Anakin finally broke down and saved Palps. Then they redid it so Mace was going to kill him, but they made Palps more sleazy and weas'ly by feigning weakness to play on Anakin's mind a bit more.

[CooLJoE]

I still cannot stand how quick the 3 other Jedi with Mace had died. Every time I watch it, it annoys me. They were killed so easy that they look like they should never have been Jedi in the first place.


And yeah, it bugs me how fast Anakin chooses the dark side and accepts Palpatines orders and such.

[JimJamBonds]

With those other 3 going down so quickly it gives more 'drama' to the one on one battle. Remember Sam didn't want to go out like a punk.

[TheDarthVader]

Remember the line (following Palpy telling Anakin to go to these places), "Only then will you be strong enough with the dark side to save Padme."

Palpy just plays off Anakin's love for Padme. He just plants false ideas into his head.

B.
TDV

[sith_killer_99]

Yeah, I think it really kinda becomes irrelavant to Anakin after he takes out Mace.

George keeps hitting us with this whole "turmoil" thing that Anakin was going through. I guess he wasn't really thinking straight. I will be the first to admit that there were a lot of inconsistancies with Anakin's turn to the dark side, but such is the way of the film.

There were lots of times Anakin should have stopped and questioned what was going on. He didn't because what he really wanted was the power, the power to save Padme'. When someone wants something bad enough they just rationalize the inconsistancies away.

[DarthBrandon]

Well said sith_killer_99,

that's what I thought all along when I seen the film, he doesn't question anything because nothing else matters to him at that point. Anakin just wants the power to save the one he loves which ironically is the just the reason he loses her & everyone else in the process.

I do agree the Palpatine fight looked like a joke on screen, I would have liked it better had Palpatine force threw something (statue perhaps) at Agen (which kills him), then kills Master Tin after a spar or two (maybe punch Tin in the face ala Darth Maul, then move in for the killing blow), after that he could spar with Kit & Mace for a few seconds killing Kit after sending Mace back with a force push, this leaves Mace & Palpy all alone to duke it out until Mace gets the upper hand which will be reversed after Anakin betrays the Jedi order. This IMHO would have been ten times better than what we've seen on screen & still gives Palpy the powerful look that George is looking for. What was depicted on screen was three Jedi punks & one Bad MF ala Mace.

Other than that the rest of the film was great, even Yoda having to retreat because he figured out he couldn't beat Palpy & it would be unwise to continue to try.

[2-1B]

If nothing else, when Nute is begging for his life on Mustafar, why doesn't Anakin say, "Woah, man, hold up a second. I'm still going to kill you because you're a d****bag, but what's all this jibber-jabber about you working for Sidious?"

When did Nute ever say to Anakin that he was working for Sidious ?

He told Vader that the war was over and Lord Sidious promised them peace . . . Sids told Vader where to find them in the first place, obviously Palps had talked to Nute since Nute said they spoke, but going back to my last post where I said that maybe Sids "got" the info the same way he did about Utapau, well that wouldn't really hold up here since Nute tips his hand that Palps talked to him.

But it still doesn't matter, because after Grievous' death the war was supposed to be 'over' and it's not unusual for the losing dilpomats to converse with the victor (Sids). So as far as Anakin is concerned, Sids told him to go wipe out the leaders and all Anakin should realize is that Sids told Nute that Vader was coming and of course Palps lied about Vader's intentions which made it easier for him to "wipe them out."

[tagmac]

I still cannot stand how quick the 3 other Jedi with Mace had died. Every time I watch it, it annoys me. They were killed so easy that they look like they should never have been Jedi in the first place.

I have to agree. At least in the novel, Palpy demosnstrates just how strong he is by getting in the minds of Kolar and Tiin, confusing them before killing them. The only thing that excuses this is, from what I read, Palpatine supposedly is capable of moving about 1000 times faster than a normal human. In slo-mo (on the DVD), it appears Kolar and Tii are raising their sabres to strike as Palpy cuts them down, and Kit looks clearly off-balance and overmatched during his brief defense. As the audience, we are actually watching a fight being played out in "slow-motion," where Palpatine is simply so fast, he can beat even some of the best Jedi on speed alone. Only Yoda and Mace are powerful enough to match him in speed, which is clear in how Mace clearly has Palpatine beat - no way did he allow himself to be disarmed by letting Mace kick him. It's when Anakin walks in and he feigns weakness after the lightning attack that Palpatine's expressions show that NOW he is throwing the fight to test Anakin's response.

As for Yoda, it was clear that the fight was at least a stalemate, but with Yoda as the only Jedi capable of withstanding force lightning, he could have won had he been on a more even footing, and had he not lost his saber. The look on Palpy's face just before he and Yoda are thrown apart is clearly one of pain and fear - if they hadn't been so high up in the air, and Yoda was armed, he could have beaten Palpy right there.

......but then, we wouldn't have an Original Trilogy then, would we?

Speaking of Palpatine, thanks to the pause button, I'm now convinced that he was, in fact, looking at the Death Star plans when Anakin walks into his office a few scenes earlier.