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  1. #1

    The Most Expendable Chapter of the Saga....

    ..... is Attack of the Clones.

    I can hear all of you screaming, but let's assess this shall we? I'll show you how I came to this conclusion.

    The Phantom Menace

    - establishes the core characters and their relationships
    - provides an origin for the character of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader
    - propels Anakin on his journey to Jedi Knighthood
    - introduces the concept of a Jedi prophesy during which a "chosen one" will bring balance to the force
    - leads you to suspect that Palpatine is manipulating things behind the scenes
    - shows us the first move in Palpatine's final scheme to seize control of the senate (without the invasion of Naboo he would not be Chacellor, if he were not Chancellor there would be no Clone Wars, without the Clone Wars there would be no army, without the army Palpatine would not have overthrown the Jedi)

    Attack of the Clones

    - builds on relationships previously developed
    - continues the story of Anakin
    - shows Anakin during his journey to Knighthood
    - furthers your suspicions regarding Palpatine
    - shows how Palpatine's ultimate plan develops
    - sets the stage for the final act of this trilogy

    Revenge of the Sith

    - destroys some relationships and defines others
    - reveals the mechanism by which Anakin becomes Darth Vader
    - confirms your suspicions about Palpatine
    - illustrates how Palpatine's scheme finally allows him to achieve his goal
    - reveals the mechanism through which certain Jedi are able to continue to communicate with living beings after their bodies have died
    - builds a bridge between the trilogies

    A New Hope

    - establishes a different set of characters and the relationships between them
    - illustrates Vader's character as having achieved a state of near-complete evilness
    - does not deal with Palpatine's story at all but does hint at the type of governing he is using as the Emperor

    The Empire Strikes Back

    - reveals to Luke that he is the offspring of Darth Vader
    - reveals that Vader is capable of some emotion other than cold hatred
    - develops the character of Luke Skywalker into a close approximation to a Jedi Knight
    - re-introduces Yoda and Palpatine after 25 years
    - sets the stage for the final act of the Saga

    Return of the Jedi

    - reveals how the character of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader redeems himself, bringing balance to the force and fulfilling the ancient prophesy first discussed in Episode I
    - shows how Palpatine's greatest fear (losing his power) is realized
    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    Of course there are a million more "points" we could make under each movie's heading, but in one movie's case the verbs are different. The only purpose of AOTC is developmental. In my opinion there are no "key" characters introduced, and every key occurrence is reiterated throughout the rest of the Saga.

    What I'm saying is this: if you had to watch the Saga in only 5 movies, you'd get more of the story by choosing to miss Attack of the Clones than you would if you missed any other chapter.

    All that being said, I don't think AOTC is the worst movie of the lot - to me it's 4th out of 6...... but that's not the point.
    GOLDEN DEUCE AWARD WINNER & MABUCON ATTENDEE 2008

  2. #2
    I beg to differ. Lucas should have started with Clones as far as I'm concerned. Phantom Menace was a travesty. A complete waste of film. I thought maybe Sith would somehow redeem it a little but I just painfully re-watched it again recently and came to the conclusion that I hope to never watch that film in its entirety ever again. The Prequels begin with Clones.

  3. #3
    You've managed to leave out the fact that without Attach of the Clones, we would have no idea how the clonetroopers even came to be. Plus it shows the first signs of Anakin really leaning to the darkside.

    I agree that if anything, the Phantom Menace could be tossed out and just throw an extra 20-30 minutes onto the beginning of AOTC to show Anakin get found, chosen, initial years of training, and then pop into what we have for AOTC. Really all that TPM does is establish Anakin being found at a young age, being chosen for training (we don't even see him train in TPM...what a ripoff), and Chancellor taking interest in him. All that can be done in a short 20-30 mins and put in front of AOTC as I said



    If I had my choice, I'd make AOTC the first movie. Like compress TPM as I said so that it like glances over the young Anakin parts, shows him train as a young teen, then go into AOTC as we saw it. The 2nd movie could then be all the stuff that was in the book that led into ROTS. That book leads DIRECTLY into ROTS, so its perfect. That way we would get loads of Clone Wars action, see more of Anakin develop as a Jedi, and more adventures between him and Obi Wan and even better.....more between Obi, Ani, and Commander Cody (as well as some other Clone Commanders).

    Thats how I would have done it. And I bet that way of doing the movies would have garnered more success from fans and non-fans alike. The other bonus would be no stupid antics from JarJar or the Naboo crap, and much less the whole pod racing scene, which looked cool technological wise, but was pointless in the whole story.

  4. #4
    You're not arguing the right point, as far as I'm concerned. Based on the 6 movies we have before us, which is the LEAST necessary in terms of the whole story? That's the question, and AOTC is the obvious answer.

    We can talk about which movies we like, which we don't, and what changes we'd make to them 'til we're blue in the face (and we do, just look at all the threads about it) - the point here is whether or not you could miss any of the other movies and get as much of the story as you could if you missed AOTC...... I don't think you can.
    GOLDEN DEUCE AWARD WINNER & MABUCON ATTENDEE 2008

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by CooLJoE
    You've managed to leave out the fact that without Attach of the Clones, we would have no idea how the clonetroopers even came to be. Plus it shows the first signs of Anakin really leaning to the darkside.

    I agree that if anything, the Phantom Menace could be tossed out and just throw an extra 20-30 minutes onto the beginning of AOTC to show Anakin get found, chosen, initial years of training, and then pop into what we have for AOTC. Really all that TPM does is establish Anakin being found at a young age, being chosen for training (we don't even see him train in TPM...what a ripoff), and Chancellor taking interest in him. All that can be done in a short 20-30 mins and put in front of AOTC as I said.
    Lucas should NEVER have shown Anakin as a child. Did we really need to see that? No. He could have started with Hayden as a young man who was already Obi-Wan's Padawan and a young Jedi full of promise. The Clone Wars should have began in Episode I. Episode II could have been like Gone With The Wind with Anakin's relationship with Padme set against the backdrop of the Clone Wars and of course Episode III all about the fall. Darth Maul could have lasted for all 3 films and Anakin kills him and takes his place as Sith Apprentice instead of Dooku or it could have been Asajj Ventress whom is my personal favorite. Showing him as a bratty, whiny little kid tarnished my image and respect for him. Yes, Vader was once a little boy, we all were, but it is about the man who became a Dark Lord, not some punk kid who builds droids, podraces, and blows up Droid Control ships. Yawn...

    Quote Originally Posted by jjreason
    You're not arguing the right point, as far as I'm concerned. Based on the 6 movies we have before us, which is the LEAST necessary in terms of the whole story? That's the question, and AOTC is the obvious answer.

    We can talk about which movies we like, which we don't, and what changes we'd make to them 'til we're blue in the face (and we do, just look at all the threads about it) - the point here is whether or not you could miss any of the other movies and get as much of the story as you could if you missed AOTC...... I don't think you can.
    "Oh, I don't think so." (to quote Obi-Wan)

    As CooLJoE pointed out, AOTC is ESSENTIAL because it establishes the origins of the Clone Troopers and ignites the Clone Wars. It establishes the relationships between Obi-Wan and Anakin and Padme and Anakin and ends with there marriage. It establishes several political plot points between the Separatists, Banking Clan and Commerce Guilds as well as Palpatine's political maneuverings in the Senate crucial for their payoffs in Revenge of the Sith. Phantom Menace is the most worthless film in the entire Saga. Who cares about Midiclorians. I like Palpatine's explanation better than Qui-Gon's. Really, what was the point of Qui-Gon Jinn's character anyways? He is never even mentioned in the OT and how is it that he was the only one who found out how to become one with the Force in the afterlife?

    The Phantom Menace IS the most expendable chapter of the Saga period.
    Last edited by JediTricks; 12-14-2005 at 04:53 PM.

  6. #6
    The most expendable chapter, if you really want to get down to it, is Ewoks: Caravan of Courage. No Anakin, no Luke, no Wookiees, and (most importantly) no Teek!
    Tommy, close your eyes.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by El Chuxter
    The most expendable chapter, if you really want to get down to it, is Ewoks: Caravan of Courage. No Anakin, no Luke, no Wookiees, and (most importantly) no Teek!
    I refuse to even acknowledge the existence of those films. They are not even part of the Saga. If anything it falls into the realm of the EU which I would also consider to be mostly crap.

  8. #8
    In my mind, AOTC only furthers Palpatine's political maneuverings and the relationships between Anakin and Padme, and Anakin and Obi Wan. If you were to watch ONLY AOTC, you would still want to know how they met and what the circumstances were by which Anakin was allowed to join the order. To just meet him as a Padawan, you're not getting a true "origin", and I'd much rather have Anakin's apprenticeship left up to the Expanded Universe bunch than his origin - but that's my preference.

    The key point in the defence of AOTC is the revelation of how the army came into being, no doubts there, and seeing how Ani and Padme go from meeting as kids to a married couple IS important (though very painful to watch). For the story to work, we absolutely DO need to see those things..... but I still think ROTS and the OT would explain a lot of what you'd miss if you missed AOTC. I don't think the other movies go to nearly as great a length to re-explain the origin of Anakin. As much many people dislike it, TPM is a critical chapter.
    GOLDEN DEUCE AWARD WINNER & MABUCON ATTENDEE 2008

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by jjreason
    The key point in the defence of AOTC is the revelation of how the army came into being, no doubts there, and seeing how Ani and Padme go from meeting as kids to a married couple IS important (though very painful to watch). For the story to work, we absolutely DO need to see those things..... but I still think ROTS and the OT would explain a lot of what you'd miss if you missed AOTC. I don't think the other movies go to nearly as great a length to re-explain the origin of Anakin. As much many people dislike it, TPM is a critical chapter.
    Critical?!?!?! HA!!! That's a laugh. TPM is completely worthless. What's wrong with showing Anakin and Obi-Wan already Master and Student and Anakin courting Senator Amidala? Yeah, the dialog was bad and that picnic scene and rolling around in the grass and riding the bloated cow things was lame but even if you had never seen TPM, you would get all the information you need about the characters and plot from AOTC.

  10. #10
    I explained "what's wrong with it". You'd have to speculate about where Anakin was from, and that's too big a story to leave up to comics, novels and videogames. Your hatred for the movie is fine... it's not my favorite either.... but the information in it IS critical, like it or not. We don't know the complete story of how Vader came into being without knowing where he's from. Period.
    GOLDEN DEUCE AWARD WINNER & MABUCON ATTENDEE 2008

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