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  1. #511
    Quote Originally Posted by JediTricks View Post
    They showed Tomb of the Cybermen as 2nd Doctor retrospective entry, and I thought I was going to hate it but it was surprisingly good. It's too bad there is so much lost from that era.
    The Tenth Planet is another really good cybermen episode. Unfortunately, the whole last reel is missing, but the audio still survives along with some stills. I always thought the very early cybermen were pretty creepy looking, mostly due to their crude appearance.

  2. #512
    I would assume the last reel is just the Doctor pointing a gizmo at them and they fall to sleep.

    I've never been a huge fan of the Cybermen, even on the modern series they feel... tired as an idea. They're like "what if the Borg sucked but just kept coming up with new gimmicks to give them an excuse to return?" (the worst being the walking heads from The Pandorica Opens.) In "Tomb" they at least felt clunky on par with the rest of the show, doing the best they can with a limited budget and giant ideas.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "We named the dog 'Chewbacca'!"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  3. #513
    Actually, the last reel had a fair amount of drama to it. It was William Hartnell's last episode, so he transforms into the 2nd doctor at some point. The cybermen's planet explodes from syphoning off too much power form the earth. I'd be ecstatic if the missing reel turned up.

    I've never seen any of the modern cybermen episodes, but I haven't heard many good things about them.

  4. #514
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowtrooper View Post
    Actually, the last reel had a fair amount of drama to it. It was William Hartnell's last episode, so he transforms into the 2nd doctor at some point. The cybermen's planet explodes from syphoning off too much power form the earth. I'd be ecstatic if the missing reel turned up.
    Oh man, that sucks that they don't have Hartnell's last regular episode!

    I've never seen any of the modern cybermen episodes, but I haven't heard many good things about them.
    Yeah, there's a reason for that, they're quite underwhelming and by-the-numbers IMO. They're all the same, the lack the nuance of the Dalek episodes (did you see the 9th Doctor episode, "Dalek", with all that emotion and thought? The modern Cybermen episodes are the polar opposite of that) and the designs just seem unthreatening, like metal zombies. There's nothing of their society or the way they do things either, unlike Tomb of the Cybermen. And then they have no real goals, they're just "menace, capture, enslave"... then what?
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "We named the dog 'Chewbacca'!"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  5. #515
    I've never seen the 9th doctor "Dalek" episode. I'll have to see if its posted on Youtube somewhere.

  6. #516
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowtrooper View Post
    I've never seen the 9th doctor "Dalek" episode. I'll have to see if its posted on Youtube somewhere.
    Wow! Yeah, love that episode, I recommend it highly. Did you watch any of the 9th Doctor? The episode pretty much explains itself, I don't think you'll need a lot of background from earlier in the 9th Doctor series to get what it's saying, except to know that it's the 9th Doctor's first on-screen meeting with a Dalek.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "We named the dog 'Chewbacca'!"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  7. #517
    Spoilers

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    ..

    .

    I didn't like this episode, I didn't even feel rage towards it, it just wasted my time and made me feel like all of the Moffat series has been a waste of time. There's no emotional depth, there's no real story, there's no magic or unique take on anything at all. Ripping on Hunt for Red October and the Cold War in general landed flat. Clara delivered nothing, and especially after the way things were left in the previous episode there should have been repercussions, not to mention character growth. The "monster from the rafters" was ineffective and utter nonsense since a submarine wouldn't have a place above anybody for it to hide. I had no attachment to the Ice Warriors so that wasn't particularly mind-blowing, but the Ice Warrior's argument felt pretty thin anyway. The TARDIS just up and disappearing was super cheap, but at least the all-powerful Sonic Screwdriver remained behind. David Warner's character felt a bit cliche as well. And none of the episode actually made sense, why was the Ice Warrior not melted in the original timeline where it was here? Why did the engineer guy melt the Ice Warrior early? Just stupid stuff there to move the plot along I guess, but like too many Moffat-run episodes it's so light on thought that the stupid stuff weighs down the episode more than the complicated explanations needed to carry an idea through that they're excising.

    I think what bothered me most was how clumsy and dead-eyed they made Clara. Oddly considering the recent conversation, this episode felt like a reflection on the 9th Doctor episode "Dalek" except Rose had real emotions driving her choices and the villain ran through the emotional range required to get it to the anger point - none of which happened here.

    This wasn't even shot especially well. It didn't feel claustrophobic.

    Literally the only thing I could I say I felt worked was the use of an actual model for the sub, looked pretty good, way better than the dodgy CGI spaceship.

    What bums me out about reading that Wiki page on this episode is that the IDEAS for bringing back the Ice Warriors should have held up, the society from which he came being uniquely different to our own and a driving force in who he was and why he was doing these things, but none of that was written into this episode, instead taking cheap shortcuts, gimmicks and "kill all humans" behavior.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "We named the dog 'Chewbacca'!"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  8. #518
    I enjoyed it. I didn't realize the Ice Warriors were going to be in it, so that was kind of neat to see a villain from the classic series. I don't think the new series has had them before.

  9. #519
    It seemed like there were no redeeming characters in this episode, the closest being the "android" - the salvage crew were willing to cheat and kill to get ahead, the Doctor was willing to lie and mislead to get what he wanted, and Clara once again lept without looking and had no real personality until the end... which was all wiped out with a cheat they've intentionally avoided using before except in "The Big Bang" where it was the same thing except not as good this time around. And the TARDIS wasn't enough of a character, and the inner levels looked like a rejected Farscape set.

    The big cheat at the end, the "it was all a dream" moment, made this an entirely unrewarding episode (worse than The Big Bang, where at least our characters seemed to carry that experience with them), what little movement we got on the Clara mystery was sapped by a timeline-reboot and a rather lame one at that. But really, why didn't the Doctor scan for any nearby entities before shutting down the shields? That was a contrivance of itself. With so many other contrivances like the zombie creatures that attacked for no reason, time slipping hither and yon with warnings not to disrupt timestreams (only to then do exactly that to defeat the danger), it was all too much even before Clara opened a door with a big flashing light and found a CGI fireball that she easily outran (instead of, you know, just NOT opening the door and going the opposite way). Oh, and if Tricky wasn't an android after all, why was he able to sense the TARDIS' emotional states? Sloppy writing abounds in this one.

    Clara I don't find captivating at all, she had a singular moment here where she confronted the Doctor (boy, she gleaned a LOT of info from glancing at a single page in that book), but mainly her mystery is the driving force behind the character, and the rest is just cut-n-paste parts of recent companions.

    I couldn't have felt more ripped off by viewing the "center of the TARDIS" had it just been cardboard sets and a single light, it's like there was no imagination, I'll even take the Fox 1996 TV movie sets with its Eye of Harmony. The actual engine exploded looked entirely thoughtless, a white room with hovering random bits of nothing impressive whatsoever.

    It was nice to hear Susan and Ian and Pertwee and Tom Baker and Eccleston, there were a few clever bits and I liked Smith's energy when forcing the salvage crew to help him (not that it ended up working, they all just did what they wanted despite the threat of total destruction).

    Overall, I didn't hate this episode as much as I could have, it had a lot going against it obviously, but a few elements worked enough to make it a barely-passing grade as TV, but as Doctor Who goes it was as close to a miss as this show can get without really making me mad.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "We named the dog 'Chewbacca'!"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  10. #520
    Watched the classic episode Pyramid of Mars. They were doing an overview of Tom Baker plus this episode. I missed the first part but caught the rest of it. No surprise, I really enjoyed it. Tom Baker was always "The" Doctor Who for me. He was the star when I first started watching it, so nostalgia figures into that alot.

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