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  1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by JediTricks View Post
    Too late, I suspect. Mattel's driven the brand into the ground.
    Yup, my thoughts exactly. I'm hearing reports that many places have canned their case shipments for the newest Batman DCSH wave.
    "Woke up at 9.55am. Soon as I woke up, I looked at Suzanne and she looked at me. I said, 'Did I tell you about the immune system?' Suzanne starting laughing, I said, 'it's amazing.' She said, 'Not now.'"

  2. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by RooJay View Post
    But the retailers are only asking for more Batman and Superman figures.
    Yeah, I love when they say that, like retailers had a CHOICE in the matter anyway since that's all there was. But yeah, retailers like to have the name characters to draw in the casual consumers, that doesn't mean the line has to be pure Supes & Bats, look at Marvel Legends - wave after wave of "who the f' is that?!?" figs and it's still going!
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "We named the dog 'Chewbacca'!"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  3. #403
    Thing is, Marvel Legends were (almost) always larger. The largest amount of new figures that have been released at once from Mattel has been what, 4? The last Marvel Legends wave to only have 4 (ML4) didn't do so well, it would seem the larger variety in a wave helps the others sell as well.

    So, hopefully they'll increase the size of waves to about 6 or so figures, especially if they decide to move ahead with the BAF concept.

    But, at $10 per figure larger waves could really bite and Mattel hasn't ever shown interest in large waves except when 95% is made up of Batman or Superman variants.

    At the very least, I hope we manage to get the main JL members, according to Cornboy on Fwoosh's Q&A thread the Four Horsemen have been VERY busy with this line lately. Soo, here's hoping it's more than mere coincidence that this announcement comes a month away from SDCC.
    "Hokey packaging and ancient gimmicks are no match for good detail on your figure, kid."
    "I am a Klingot from Oklahoma in human boy form."
    "We came, we saw, we conquered... We, woke up!"

  4. #404
    Awesome, we need more Superman figures....I don't have enough of them.
    "You know I love the guy but I swear he writes like freaking Yoda."-Dean Winchester
    R12:2-Be Transformed

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by LTBasker View Post
    Thing is, Marvel Legends were (almost) always larger. The largest amount of new figures that have been released at once from Mattel has been what, 4? The last Marvel Legends wave to only have 4 (ML4) didn't do so well, it would seem the larger variety in a wave helps the others sell as well.

    So, hopefully they'll increase the size of waves to about 6 or so figures, especially if they decide to move ahead with the BAF concept.

    But, at $10 per figure larger waves could really bite and Mattel hasn't ever shown interest in large waves except when 95% is made up of Batman or Superman variants.

    At the very least, I hope we manage to get the main JL members, according to Cornboy on Fwoosh's Q&A thread the Four Horsemen have been VERY busy with this line lately. Soo, here's hoping it's more than mere coincidence that this announcement comes a month away from SDCC.
    It's about safety and belief in product, less new figures means less new risk on paper even if it fails the point of the line. Also, and I think this is key, the ML line tried not to be too dependent on core characters once the ball got rolling, but the first ML wave was Iron Man & variant, Hulk & variant hands, Captain America, and Toad (latepacked and then shortpacked). I guess part of the problem is that DC really is tentpoled on 2 major characters while Marvel spreads their tentpole characters around heavily - including villains - so Marvel can do multiple waves with a core character in each without feeling repetitive while DC has just Bats and Supes to fall back on, and thus continues the downward spiral. And of course it hurts too that DC has already covered their secondary guys so heavily with DC Direct, so the fanboys aren't going to flock to Mattel's product in as great numbers because they're satiated by DCD.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "We named the dog 'Chewbacca'!"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  6. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by JediTricks View Post
    It's about safety and belief in product, less new figures means less new risk on paper even if it fails the point of the line. Also, and I think this is key, the ML line tried not to be too dependent on core characters once the ball got rolling, but the first ML wave was Iron Man & variant, Hulk & variant hands, Captain America, and Toad (latepacked and then shortpacked). I guess part of the problem is that DC really is tentpoled on 2 major characters while Marvel spreads their tentpole characters around heavily - including villains - so Marvel can do multiple waves with a core character in each without feeling repetitive while DC has just Bats and Supes to fall back on, and thus continues the downward spiral. And of course it hurts too that DC has already covered their secondary guys so heavily with DC Direct, so the fanboys aren't going to flock to Mattel's product in as great numbers because they're satiated by DCD.
    I can't help but think of this post as extremely biased in Marvel's favor. I'm left wondering exactly which of Marvel's characters do you consider 'tentpole' characters? Marvel has at various times tried a slightly greater range of their characters in individual projects outside of comics in the past, but I don't think any of them ever caught on, or were ever as widely recognized (or recognizable) as most of DC's second tier. Granted, there are a lot of X-Men but one tends to take them as a whole regardless (you'd never expect a Cyclops solo toy line or television cartoon.) When was the last time Captain America even had any success outside of comics? Thor? Daredevil (I suppose his movie still counts as a success on some level)? Nope, pretty much Spider-Man and the X-Men. Just wondering which Marvels you consider 'tentpole' characters.

  7. #407
    Quote Originally Posted by JediTricks View Post
    IAnd of course it hurts too that DC has already covered their secondary guys so heavily with DC Direct, so the fanboys aren't going to flock to Mattel's product in as great numbers because they're satiated by DCD.
    Honestly, which version would you take?

    http://www.actionfigureinsider.com/f...tGirlComp3.jpg

    The DCD version that looks like an amateur customizer job with very little reference material and cost $15.

    Or, the DCSH version that despite being 90% recycled from the Barbara-Batgirl is better proportioned, better detailed, better articulated and the head is a thousand times better? And, most importantly: it's $5 less.

    While not every Four Horsemen creation would be that extreme of a contrast to the DCD version, they would (should) have a continuous scale unlike DCD which changes it with every line. Style too - you can't piece together a Batman group of allies and villains without having a stark contrast in styles.

    This gives DCSH so much potential with the master license as long as Mattel can get the bullet out of their foot. Especially distribution-wise, theres no denying that if you want a DCD figure, you've got a good shot at it from any online store.

    The fanboys will likely continue to go to DCD because they offer figures based on specific artist renditions. That's also the reason they'll likely support DCSH at the same time, because with DCSH they can get Batman's allies & villains, Superman's allies & villains - and now other heroes and their villains - all in one matching style.

    Really, I think we're going to have to wait for Comic-Con to see and hear what Mattel is planning to fully judge the future (or demise) of DCSH.
    "Hokey packaging and ancient gimmicks are no match for good detail on your figure, kid."
    "I am a Klingot from Oklahoma in human boy form."
    "We came, we saw, we conquered... We, woke up!"

  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by RooJay View Post
    I can't help but think of this post as extremely biased in Marvel's favor. I'm left wondering exactly which of Marvel's characters do you consider 'tentpole' characters?
    First off, I'm usually swayed towards DC so it's not an unfair bias. Spidey is their main guy, no question, but there's also (in no particular order) Cap, Hulk, Wolverine & the X-men, Namor (KIDDING! ), The Punisher, Daredevil, Thor, and the Fantastic Four. Marvel is less of a tiered universe than DC. If I started listing off DC's other big guys - Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, The Flash, Aquaman, Robin - you'd know I was talking about the next tier down from Bats & Supes (and not coincidentally, they're all JLAers except Robin who is an offshoot of Batman).

    Marvel has at various times tried a slightly greater range of their characters in individual projects outside of comics in the past, but I don't think any of them ever caught on, or were ever as widely recognized (or recognizable) as most of DC's second tier. Granted, there are a lot of X-Men but one tends to take them as a whole regardless (you'd never expect a Cyclops solo toy line or television cartoon.) When was the last time Captain America even had any success outside of comics? Thor? Daredevil (I suppose his movie still counts as a success on some level)? Nope, pretty much Spider-Man and the X-Men.
    They may not have great success at all times, but they're all tentpole characters because they're all instantly recognizable and well-known. You want to tell me that Wonder Woman and Green Arrow are hot selling books at all times? Face it, with their characters Marvel is gregarious while DC is a strict hierarchy.

    Quote Originally Posted by LTBasker View Post
    Honestly, which version would you take?

    http://www.actionfigureinsider.com/f...tGirlComp3.jpg
    First off, I wouldn't take either because I think Cassandra Batgirl sucks.

    The DCD version that looks like an amateur customizer job with very little reference material and cost $15.

    Or, the DCSH version that despite being 90% recycled from the Barbara-Batgirl is better proportioned, better detailed, better articulated and the head is a thousand times better? And, most importantly: it's $5 less.
    Well, therein lies the rub, the DCD version exists, it had a timetable and an announced release date, and it actually came out 2 years ago. Where has Mattel's been? Is it out now? If so, is there any chance of finding it? Will Mattel say it's out and then cancel it or release it only in foreign market? If they release it, will it suffer sloppy paint or crappy joints or recycled parts to make it inaccurate?

    I don't like DCD, I own none of it, but they do for their fans what Mattel is absolutely unwilling to.

    And which looks better? Since I don't like Cassandra either way, I've got to say the DCD because it's more accurate to the art and better captures what visually makes up that character. Mattel's recycled body has very little costume texture and the wrong boots, cape, gloves, bat-symbol. Yes, Mattel's isn't as crazy and looks like a better toy, but a lesser representation.

    While not every Four Horsemen creation would be that extreme of a contrast to the DCD version, they would (should) have a continuous scale unlike DCD which changes it with every line. Style too - you can't piece together a Batman group of allies and villains without having a stark contrast in styles.

    This gives DCSH so much potential with the master license as long as Mattel can get the bullet out of their foot. Especially distribution-wise, theres no denying that if you want a DCD figure, you've got a good shot at it from any online store.
    Here's the thing, is Mattel going to be able to pull this line out of its nosedive in time? Probably not. Is Mattel even going to turn DCSH into Marvel Legends? Not likely because even if they do a wave or 2 of lesser characters, they're not going to keep supporting it - they've shown their true colors, they're cowards at that level of risk, and will go back to Superman & Batman every time. They'll once again leave collectors high and dry like they always do - MOTU, Batman, Harry Potter, they all show Mattel screwing customers over. Mattel makes big claims and then walks away from them.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "We named the dog 'Chewbacca'!"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  9. #409
    Quote Originally Posted by JediTricks View Post
    First off, I'm usually swayed towards DC so it's not an unfair bias. Spidey is their main guy, no question, but there's also (in no particular order) Cap, Hulk, Wolverine & the X-men, Namor (KIDDING! ), The Punisher, Daredevil, Thor, and the Fantastic Four. Marvel is less of a tiered universe than DC. If I started listing off DC's other big guys - Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, The Flash, Aquaman, Robin - you'd know I was talking about the next tier down from Bats & Supes (and not coincidentally, they're all JLAers except Robin who is an offshoot of Batman).

    They may not have great success at all times, but they're all tentpole characters because they're all instantly recognizable and well-known. You want to tell me that Wonder Woman and Green Arrow are hot selling books at all times? Face it, with their characters Marvel is gregarious while DC is a strict hierarchy.
    I guarantee that if you asked a group of 60 year old grandmothers to identify a group of superheroes by sight each would be far more likely to pick out Flash, Green Lantern, Plastic Man and Aquaman before they could tell you who Punisher, Daredevil, Thor and Namor were. That's recognition.

    First off, I wouldn't take either because I think Cassandra Batgirl sucks.
    I'm with you on that one, though.

    Here's the thing, is Mattel going to be able to pull this line out of its nosedive in time? Probably not. Is Mattel even going to turn DCSH into Marvel Legends? Not likely because even if they do a wave or 2 of lesser characters, they're not going to keep supporting it - they've shown their true colors, they're cowards at that level of risk, and will go back to Superman & Batman every time. They'll once again leave collectors high and dry like they always do - MOTU, Batman, Harry Potter, they all show Mattel screwing customers over. Mattel makes big claims and then walks away from them.
    ...and you do have a pretty good point there.

  10. #410
    Plastic-man, really? He was big twice for about 7.5 minutes each time, once was in the '40s and the other was in the '80s.

    My grandmother can pick out Superman, she had the first issue (her mother threw it away while she was at camp - classic!), and probably Batman and Spider-man, but no way she'll be able to ID the Flash or any of those other costumed crimefighters. And here's the thing, it's not important who your grammy can identify with, she's not a target audience on this. It's parents and kids for the casual consumers and tweens to 30-somethings for the hardcore collectors. If I went to my 30-year-old sister (who is totally disinterested in superheroes) with pictures of all the characters mentioned here, I'm confident she could name:
    Spider-man
    Batman
    Superman
    Wonder Woman
    Robin
    Wolverine
    Captain America
    Fantastic Four

    And that's the key, you can't say to them "which one is Green Lantern" because obviously they can say "oh, it's the green guy with the picture of a LANTERN ON HIS CHEST!!!", it's about recognizability of character, where that guy stands in popular culture and how likely that recognition will be to the potential consumer.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "We named the dog 'Chewbacca'!"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

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