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  1. #21
    It would be nice if, once again, the EU could be somewhat based on decent stories, and not fanboy wank. I just read some info on Sacrifice that makes me happy I stopped reading this s***.

    Anyone want unopened copies of the two Legacy books I pre-ordered and didn't read before realizing what the hell this joke is about? Or should I just burn them, like I planned to?
    Tommy, close your eyes.

  2. #22
    The basic premise of this thread, that post NJO stuff seems to suck, I'm quite in agreement with, though I don't have a problem with any new bad guys calling themselves Sith. A title doesn't make them any more or any less that group.

    Otherwise, it's too easy to ignore the bad stories and take in the good stories for me to make a blanket statement as to whether EU is only good or only bad, and I would say there is more good than bad.

    I really wish Lucasfilm hadn't decided readers would get confused to have two Anakins, so the NJO writers had to kill Anakin off instead of Jacen. Anakin Solo was really coming into his own as a cool character and Jacen was just coming off as a douche. Nothing he's ever done has really impressed me, and his going to the Dark Side has meant nothing to me. Hell, I would have had more of a reaction to Jaina's going dark after Anakin died. When she shot Force lightning, I thought the next book was going to rock. But it came to nothing.

    Spoiler for Sacrifice:












    And then Douche Caedus (Jacen's **** Lord name) killed Mara Jade. I understand conceptually that writers might kill off a beloved character for dramatic effect, but when your stock of interesting characters is so low, the only effect of killing them is that your story now sucks.
    Member 104 of the SWC forums . . . but it's good to be back.

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  3. #23
    Chewie at least had not been effectively used in the books in years. Mara was still a major player.

    I wouldn't have as much a problem with another new Sith order if it weren't Jacen. It's not so much a gripe that I didn't want this to happen as it is a firm belief that this couldn't happen. I do have to give them credit for turning the least likely good guy into a baddie, Anakin style (except this time with a surprise factor!), except, well, the reason Anakin turned to Vader was because, uh, his grandfather hadn't been a Sith Lord. Jacen has heard about Vader all his life (and seen evidence of his evil), and has been disgusted by it on many occasions. This is the guy who couldn't kill the Yuuzhan Vong world brain. And the guy who has never cared one bit about politics in the past. He's not going to kill his aunt (and his twin sister's Master) because he's worried about his daughter and wants to take over the galaxy.

    It's a major jump in character--almost a full 180 degrees--with insufficient motivation and development. It's like Jazz suddenly deciding, "You know, Unicron is cool," and then killing Ironhide.

    This entire series seems like nothing more than a setup for the comic series, which is even worse, as it doesn't make much sense. (Pretty artwork, though.)

    Truth is, it's all been going downhill since the death of Anakin II. Anakin was being set up as too important a character to be offed in a manner. Yeah, it may be more realistic, but it's lousy storytelling.
    Tommy, close your eyes.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by El Chuxter View Post
    Truth is, it's all been going downhill since the death of Anakin II. Anakin was being set up as too important a character to be offed in a manner. Yeah, it may be more realistic, but it's lousy storytelling.
    I agree with your Jacen statements also, but the above so perfectly hits the mark that I wanted to say that I totally agree.
    Member 104 of the SWC forums . . . but it's good to be back.

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  5. #25
    Part of the problem is that the first half of the NJO was about loss, personal, political, and on the battlefield. While it started off ok with driving wedges between people, they didn't take it far enough. The last half of the series was about the decadence of the victors ruling class in the face of the fanaticism of the society that ceded it power. While it probably is allegorical to something in the Middle East, again this vast difference wasn't brought in: the purity of belief of the masses versus the decadence of the rulers. Finally, the plot arc was essentially Paradise Lost with respect to the Yuuzhan Vong. As Jennings said in Animal House, "You find Milton dry and boring as do I. Apparently Mrs. Milton did as well."

    Anakin dying isn't lousy story telling. It's the age old bait and switch common to a lot of fantasy story telling. It's even part of the original drafts of Star Wars where one Starkiller brother was supposed to be the savior but it went to the weakling other brother. It also was done in regards to what was the focus of the movies before the prequals and what it is now. Before it was the story of how Luke became a Jedi and defeated the Empire, now it is the story of the rise, fall and redemption of one Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader.

    Why kill off characters again? Goes to what didn't happen in the NJO. It didn't drive people far enough to change and it was a failing of the editor (Luceno) at the time. Now it is time again to see the original protagonist most of us know, Luke Skywalker, deal with another war with his family on opposite sides, this time as a single father and widower.

    As to why it has to be Jacen, because George said so? I know sucks. But here's some other insights and parallels. He is basically operating out of a fear of loss, an arrogance of his own personal philosophy, and the fact he never took the time to deal with what happened to his brother and how that drove he and his sister apart. It all goes back to the final chapter of Vector Prime, Eulogy for a Friend. Probability and luck has run out on the Skywalker/Solo clan.
    Star Wars & GI Joe Customs
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  6. #26
    I can chime in more after reading the most recent SW novel, Sacrifice. I think I know more why I am leaning towards the I'm-not-pleased-with-where-the-EU-is going side.

    Star Wars was successful because it was an escape from the cynicism and negativity of the times. There was a clear definition of good and evil, even if the people had gray areas to them.

    Star Wars fiction has become too much like reality. It's not an escape from real life. Now, I don't mean that politics and war and social issues of today are specifically being inserted into storylines (that'd send this thread to the RP faster than a farmboy shot out of a Corellian freighter airlock). It's just not fun, it's too serious, even for sci-fi, to me.

    AND, it's stealing from the films. This storyline has been almost an exact mirror image of the prequel films:

    - character has to hide a child born out of "normal channels"
    - characters use Galactic Alliance politics to steal power unknowingly
    - Chief of State (Supreme Chancellor?) removed from power with (semi) baseless accusations of corruptions
    - child(ren) as possible targets (to show how evil a character becomes)
    - out-of-control Jedi not allowed as a Master
    - learning Sith skills to become a more powerful Jedi
    - bringing order and peace to the galaxy (again?) through absolute power
    - a battle between very close Jedi (in an isoloated area/planet) that ends with potential life-threatening injuries (and left to die)
    - I also saw the Mandalorian bektar ore ships as like a clone army being created

    Sigh. A more civilized age, before the dark times, before [insert personal comment here]...
    'It is always nice to see you, says the Besalisk at the counter... And instead I pour blue milk...' From "Dex's Diner" by Su-San Vega

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Bel-Cam Jos View Post

    AND, it's stealing from the films. This storyline has been almost an exact mirror image of the prequel films:
    But isn't part of mythology/epic literature the fact that all these events are cyclical? It happened once before, now it happens once again. It's just unusual in Star Wars because it happens in just one family pretty much.
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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by pbarnard View Post
    But isn't part of mythology/epic literature the fact that all these events are cyclical? It happened once before, now it happens once again. It's just unusual in Star Wars because it happens in just one family pretty much.
    Yes, but "stealing" from one's own storyline isn't mythical but, to me, showing a lack of originality. Cyclical storytelling shouldn't occur every five years or so. They should build up more of the EU before doing that.
    'It is always nice to see you, says the Besalisk at the counter... And instead I pour blue milk...' From "Dex's Diner" by Su-San Vega

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by El Chuxter View Post
    Chewie at least had not been effectively used in the books in years. Mara was still a major player.

    I wouldn't have as much a problem with another new Sith order if it weren't Jacen. It's not so much a gripe that I didn't want this to happen as it is a firm belief that this couldn't happen. I do have to give them credit for turning the least likely good guy into a baddie, Anakin style (except this time with a surprise factor!), except, well, the reason Anakin turned to Vader was because, uh, his grandfather hadn't been a Sith Lord. Jacen has heard about Vader all his life (and seen evidence of his evil), and has been disgusted by it on many occasions. This is the guy who couldn't kill the Yuuzhan Vong world brain. And the guy who has never cared one bit about politics in the past. He's not going to kill his aunt (and his twin sister's Master) because he's worried about his daughter and wants to take over the galaxy.

    It's a major jump in character--almost a full 180 degrees--with insufficient motivation and development. It's like Jazz suddenly deciding, "You know, Unicron is cool," and then killing Ironhide.

    This entire series seems like nothing more than a setup for the comic series, which is even worse, as it doesn't make much sense. (Pretty artwork, though.)

    Truth is, it's all been going downhill since the death of Anakin II. Anakin was being set up as too important a character to be offed in a manner. Yeah, it may be more realistic, but it's lousy storytelling.
    Amen Chux.

    I just got done reading Exile but knew Mara has been killed. Probably the most popular EU character of all time, with a great story(Zahn writes her like no one else can). I think its B.S. to go off and kill her, when there are a number of characters who have grown stale(Jacen, Kyp,Corran,Alema,Lando IMO) who continue to "live on". Same for Anakin II, great potential but I think it would have made a better impact if one of the Solo twins died,considering the bond always mentioned.

    I agree with Chux and Bel-Cam it is realistic(and too prequel) but I'm not a fan of reality in Star Wars. I read them to escape reality. If I wanted reality I would buy something else non Sci-fi.

    I will probably continue to read the series, but only until I can find the books second hand. They arent worth buying new.
    Treat your stepmother with respect Pantera, or you'll be sleeping in the streets!!

  10. #30
    I bought the newest Legacy novel, Inferno, but I'm waiting until the temperature drops below 100 degrees here to read it.

    I do have this to say: I may not be enthusiatic about the current trend in SW EU, as I've said many a time previously, but I don't want to miss the story arcs, so that's why I'm a "completist" and get all the fiction books that come out.
    'It is always nice to see you, says the Besalisk at the counter... And instead I pour blue milk...' From "Dex's Diner" by Su-San Vega

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