View Poll Results: Do you have any fears about Episode II: Attack of the Clones?

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  • "No, I have complete faith."

    333 53.03%
  • "I have certain concerns about this movie."

    266 42.36%
  • "Yes, this film is not going to work."

    29 4.62%
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Results 101 to 110 of 237
  1. #101
    Originally posted by mark2d2
    Did you ever see The Phantom Edit? I never did, but from what I heard all of the changes were ones that I had thought of as well. I'd still love to check it out sometime.
    No. Couldn't find it. It'll resurface someday, if I don't make one in the meantime. But if he includes Midi's in EP II and III, I've got alot of work to do. And I have to someone remove Qui Gon Jinn and give poor Obi Wan all his history back.

  2. #102
    I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but I am exceptionally curious about this new "it happened offscreen" defense that has recently popped up. Could someone please explain just why this would be considered as a valid filmmaking technique to explain incongrueties?

    For instance, the hero in the new version of Rollerball, skates around the entire time without his chinstrap fastened. This wouldn't appear to be a big deal, except that a major plot point is that another player has his chinstrap intentionally cut by the bad guys ane that ultimately leads to his death. So on the surface, this appears to be a goof, however, if we were to take this recent line of reasoning, we might concoct a "missing" scene in which our hero is given special dispensation from properly securing his headgear and that no one on the court will take advantage of the situation. Stupid, huh. That's what I thought. Why should it work for TPM then?

    signed
    Just Wondering in the Catskills.

  3. #103
    Originally posted by stillakid
    I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but I am exceptionally curious about this new "it happened offscreen" defense that has recently popped up. Could someone please explain just why this would be considered as a valid filmmaking technique to explain incongrueties?
    I agree stillakid. To assume that something happened off screen is poor editing. If mystically somewhere out there there is a lost scence from 1977 with Ben and Luke sdiscussing the midichlorians, then I'd like to see it, but there isn't because IMO midichlorians were recently thought up by GL.

    Also one more point I'd like to make. If Darth Vader is mostly machine and your midichlorian count determines how well you use the force, then he probably desn't have 75% of the midichlorians he used to have. So that means that he probably has the same amount as Han Solo or Lando Calrissian. If so, then he shouldn't be able to use the force at all.

    One of the main reasons the OT is so good is because the Force has a sort of wizard/magician type element to it. And GL has stated in many interviews that he based the Jedi off of them. So it only makes sense that it is "mystical" and undefined. I don't hear people here talking about how Gandalf uses magic. He is a magician, and our preconceived notions of magicians are defined for us by fantasy type stories. We don't say to ourselves while watching LOTR, how does Gandalf do that? We just assume he can do it because he is a magician.

    Debate it as much as you will, mdichlorians were a bad idea and
    poor storytelling.
    "Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun."

  4. #104
    ONCE AGAIN...Stillakid, I am not trying to debate that midichlorians was a good idea. What I am trying to impress is that, in spite of your arguments to the contrarty, they to mesh flawlessly (in MY opinion) with everything in the OT. I think the points I have made support this 100%. I DO NOT like the idea of midichlorians, but they ARE NOT contradictory.

    Originally posted by stillakid
    "...it is highly unlikely that Old Ben wouldn't give Luke all the tools necessary to get him from naive farmboy to fully trained Jedi in as little time as possible." "...evidence to show that Lucas only recently dreamed Midichlorians up."
    ...but exactly how do you suppose this information would've helped Luke? Sell it to me.

    Originally posted by stillakid
    "...we don't need to rely on those examples to prove the silliness of Midichlorians."
    I AGREE with you...midichlorians are silly!

    Originally posted by stillakid
    "With the introduction of Midichlorians, all of that was blown out of the water. Now, instead of being ordinary, Luke is a super-human. He's got an advantage that none of us are capable of. It wasn't his internal strength that led him to success. He had help. From what? Billions of microscopic parasites who act as middlemen to the Force. You can't use the Force if you don't have enough of them. Everything that Yoda said about becoming a Jedi is misleading. It has nothing to do with "feeling the Force flow through you." Who needs that? All you gotta do is talk to your little friends."
    You are absolutely, 100% right about this! I agree with you with every fiber of my being. This is EXACTLY the reason that I do not like the idea of midichlorians, but it is too late for that now...the movie has already been made and they DO exist.

    ...and with that, I close my argument. Thank you for engaging me in this discussion, and I look forward to discussing all aspects of Star Wars with you in these forums in the future!:happy:

  5. #105
    Luke was never just an ordinary kid, this was made clear time and again in the OT. Not through words but through Luke's actions. GL stated that he always intended for the use of the Force to be more akin to genetics, thus the introduction of the midis in Ep1.

    Does he have any proof that this was his idea way back in 1973? Probably not. It was probably just a seed of an idea that didn't take shape until he was writing Ep1 in 1994. I really don't believe that midis existed in GL's mind at all in the OT; but he saw a need to include them in the PT. I don't know why just yet; but I am willing to wait until I see Ep2 and 3 before I decide if they were a good idea.

    The main reason I didn't like the Force as a kid was because it was all just a little too mystical and magical for me. So, in my case, the midichlorians are a welcome change to ground Force powers in reality a little.

    At this point, however, I could care less whether the prequels jive with the OT or not. Mainly because the prequels are doing a much better job with what Star Wars is really all about. Flashy special effects, big action packed battles and amazing production design.

    The story is really not all that important to me; but it really bothers me to hear someone proclaim as "fact" that the midichlorians were a bad idea and Ep1 was a bad movie. That's just blatant stupidity.

  6. #106
    Originally posted by bigbarada
    The main reason I didn't like the Force as a kid was because it was all just a little too mystical and magical for me. So, in my case, the midichlorians are a welcome change to ground Force powers in reality a little.

    At this point, however, I could care less whether the prequels jive with the OT or not. Mainly because the prequels are doing a much better job with what Star Wars is really all about. Flashy special effects, big action packed battles and amazing production design.

    The story is really not all that important to me; but it really bothers me to hear someone proclaim as "fact" that the midichlorians were a bad idea and Ep1 was a bad movie. That's just blatant stupidity.
    I have to disagree with you here bigbarada. SW shouldn't be about flashy special effects. I loved the OT WAY better than what I've seen in TPM and what little I've seen of AOTC from the trailers. Plus most of the CGI characters look awful. Give me a puppet any day of the week over these things. However I think SW has turned into, "Let's show off what we can do with our special effects," instead of telling a great story.

    I loved the Force when I was a kid. Every child dreams about having some kind of super powers, so that appealed to me.

    As for the story, well for some of us the story is very important. Many hollywood movies that have horrible scripts and do a bad job of telling a story don't do well at the box office. But when it comes to SW, guaranteed to be a huge blockbuster due to its fan base, then the story should be of a higher quality. All of the stupid kiddy jokes and JarJar didn't belong in the film. Heck, I'd take the midichlorians in the film if they got rid of Jar Jar, but that isn't going to happen. As far as TPM being better than the OT, not in a million years IMO. I could watch the OT all day long, but when it comes to TPM the only part that made the movie worth seeing was the lightsaber duel at the end of the movie. Of course these are just my opinions.
    "Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun."

  7. #107
    I've said this before -- but I'll say it again. Lucas once said that the special effects were just a mere tool in telling the story. But now, it turns out that the story is just a mere tool to tell special effects. And frankly, as a fan, I deserved a heck of a lot more than that.

  8. #108

  9. #109
    I also had the conceived notion that, even before midis were introduced, one had a certain amount of "force power" inherent within them. Luke WAS indeed special, because he was stronger in the Force than most people. Not everyone can grow up to become what he had become. Like his line in ROTJ "The Force is strong in my family." I always assumed that his Force strength was inherited from his father.

    So I guess in a way I always thought the Force was somewhat genetic, in the fact that it is involved with heredity, and it could be measured. Not everyone could become a Jedi, only if you were born with strong enough Force Powers. That's how I always believed it before the prequels, anyway.
    "Watch this, I'm going to horrify you into a coma..."

  10. #110
    True. With words like "the Force is strong in my family" the entire concept smacks of genetics, but that's only one piece of the puzzle. By infecting this particular galaxy with Midichlorians, we are no longer dealing with a humanity that we here on Earth can fully empathize with. The problem with that is that in most cases, the best literature (fiction) in our history, has dealt with topics that ordinary people can relate to in some manner. So, while Luke Skywalker may have a tendency towards being able to tap into the Force more than others, just like Johann Sebastian Bach was able to create music that many of us can't, the Original Trilogy painted a beautiful picture that connected living beings and this force that exists just beyond our perception.

    As with Yoga, or martial arts, or just meditation, we were led to believe that anyone was capable of achieving a certain level of proficiency in manipulation of the Force. Becoming a Jedi involved much more than that. Manipulating the Force was just a part of it. Having the internal peace to "not follow the dark path" and such was important because possessing what seems to be "magical powers" could be extremely tempting to those who would use it for selfish reasons.

    So now, we have the situation where this galaxy far far away has Midichlorians and we here on Earth do not. Yes, this is fiction, I get it. However, like I said, great fiction refers back to us and allows us the opportunity to "feel" with the characters. It becomes difficult to relate to this young naive farmboy now that we know it wasn't his training or skill that brought him success, rather an advantage to such great extent that absolutely no one watching the story could aspire to have on their own.

    Not to debate the merits of this particular film, but The Last Starfighter achieved this goal perfectly. The hero was a nobody living in a trailerpark. Just like Luke, he aspired for something better. His own skill and determination to be the best launched him into a greater adventure than anyone could ever imagine, and just like Luke (the parallels are astounding) manages to save the galaxy from certain doom. Up until TPM, the primary themes were practically identical. Ordinary kid. Danger. Success. Alex Rogan, in The Last Starfighter, didn't use pixie dust (Peter Pan), a magic feather (Dumbo), or Midichlorians (TPM) to achieve greatness. He didn't need to. The story was great enough and (potentially) inspired other little kids sitting in trailer parks around the world to work hard and get out of there. The Luke Skywalker story used to do that. But what farm kid out there has Midichlorians helping him out?

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