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  1. #1

    The Militaries of Star Wars: a proposal for Hasbro

    The distribution problem is in their case assortments. Even HasbroToyShop.com has set production numbers and receives the cases as they are packed for any other retailer here in the US.

    With TAC Wave 2 for example, how many Hans & Lukes (and eventually Biggs) should any retailer be stuck with and pay for storage for while we army build the DST and RHG, and get at least 2 Fetts per individual? HTS's stock storage will look the same as Wal-Mart's warming pegs.


    See, there's not really a lot of demand for this stuff. We're in our own little world on these SW fan sites. The major retailers have probaly thousands of customers every day. There are at best 20 regulars that at some point scour their toy isle in your local store on a daily basis. Believe me, Target and Wal-Mart can live without us shopping there. Furthermore, even a specialty toy store like TRU has hundreds of customers, and maybe only 20-30 per day (maximum) that are specifically adults looking for Star Wars (for collecting or scalping them). Finally, HasbroToyShop sells ParkerBrothers board games to people online shopping for birthdays. Their business model wouldn't be profitable either if it were just kept open to increase the convenience of Star Wars collectors.

    I'm afraid it doesn't work in our favor.

    Therefore I am proposing the Militaries of Star Wars case / collection assortments (borrowing the collection name from SideShow). It is the only way I see even HasbroToyShop being improved. They could keep their "armor and officers" in production and maintain a re-ordering practice for them regardless of worries over stockpiling Lushros Dofine or Biggs or Luke. To help the retailers, a different card SIZE and style is the only way to go so "Heroes and Villains" or "Greatest Battles" don't clog the pegs with the military end-stop stock labels.

    Right now, Target is pretty efficient with 4 racks of Saga and 2 racks of TAC. (Most of us would like that reversed, but it will be in June). In any event, employees who know nothing about Star Wars can see the TAC and Saga2 are different products. But Saga2 and GB or H&V all look pretty much the same even to us. Yet that strangely cut TAC card with a coin in it stands out, huh? So would a extra larger or extra smaller MoSW card on which basically ships troop builders. If they're going to supply a lot, and these figures are going to be opened, smaller cards would help them stock a lot. They could be in packages as narrow as the Titanium ships even. For carded collectors, the same figure could ship on a TAC card, but if you're an army builder and your MoSW figures are in stock and an obvious alternative, you could just leave the TAC carded versions of the troops alone. What do you need the card for when you can buy your whole army on the peg next to it.

    JediTricks offered the only reasonable (but not actually reasonable) objection to my proposal - that the retailers don't want to handle so many skus. Well handling them would make them more money. Isn't that what they are in business for? As to HTS - it's their product! They should do whatever it takes to support it.

    Finally, if this solution was ever implimented, it's almost 12 years late. (I don't think that in 1995 they foresaw as many adults army building as they wound up with - especially by 1997, but the lessons could have been learned then).

    In 1997 we had:

    Stormtroopers
    TIE Pilots
    Luke as SOTE Coruscant Guard (army built as grunt)
    Sandtroopers
    Death Star Gunners
    Tusken Raiders
    Jawa 2-packs
    AT-ST Drivers
    Hoth Rebel Soliders
    Rebel Fleet Troopers
    Snowtroopers
    Gamorrean Guards

    That's 12 figures right there (a standard case) that could have actually been done:



    1997 REV 1
    2 x Stormtroopers
    1 x TIE Pilots
    1 x Luke as SOTE Coruscant Guard (army built as grunt)
    2 x Sandtroopers
    2 x Death Star Gunners
    1 x Tusken Raiders
    1 x Jawa 2-packs
    1 x AT-ST Drivers
    1 x Hoth Rebel Soliders
    Rebel Fleet Troopers
    Snowtroopers
    Gamorrean Guards


    1997 REV 2
    2 x Stormtroopers
    1 x TIE Pilots
    Luke as SOTE Coruscant Guard (army built as grunt)
    1 x Sandtroopers
    1 x Death Star Gunners
    Tusken Raiders
    Jawa 2-packs

    1 x AT-ST Drivers
    2 x Hoth Rebel Soliders
    2 x Rebel Fleet Troopers
    2 x Snowtroopers
    Gamorrean Guards

    1997 REV 3
    1 x Stormtroopers
    1 x TIE Pilots
    Luke as SOTE Coruscant Guard (army built as grunt)
    Sandtroopers
    Death Star Gunners
    Tusken Raiders

    1 x Jawa 2-packs
    1 x AT-ST Drivers
    2 x Hoth Rebel Soliders
    2 x Rebel Fleet Troopers
    2 x Snowtroopers
    2x Gamorrean Guards

    and so forth. The stormtroopers would likely be kept in circulation until 1999 when the CommTech would replace him or a stock pile-up might occur (who could see that though?)

    The TIE Pilot would ship as long as TIE fighter vehicles were shipping. That'd make sense. That is also why I kept the AT-ST Driver in circulation.

    The Sandtrooper's rank (paint job) could be changed and he returned to circulation periodically, up until 2001 when he saw his POTJ update.

    Luke Coruscant (SOTE) might get a Lando version update, and be reintegrated at some point.

    The Death Star Gunner, Tusken Raider, etc. The Hoth Rebel might see a non-goatee version (like the head sculpt from the Deluxe figure) enter the assortment as a running change. The last 3 (Snow, Gamorrean, Rebel Fleet Trooper might be scaled back as the 1998 and 1999 Militaries of Star Wars lines adjusted:


    1998
    1 x Stormtroopers
    TIE Pilots
    Luke as SOTE Coruscant Guard (army built as grunt)
    Sandtroopers
    Death Star Gunners

    1 x Tusken Raiders (Bantha was released this year)
    Jawa 2-packs
    AT-ST Drivers

    1x Hoth Rebel Soliders (Deluxe Figure head, no goatee)
    1 x Rebel Fleet Troopers
    1 x Snowtroopers
    1 x Gamorrean Guards
    2 x Endor Rebel Soldiers
    2 x Ugnaught 2-packs
    2 x Death Star Trooper

    1998 REV 1
    1 x Stormtroopers
    TIE Pilots
    Luke as SOTE Coruscant Guard (army built as grunt)
    Sandtroopers
    Death Star Gunners
    Tusken Raiders

    Jawa 2-packs
    AT-ST Drivers

    1x Hoth Rebel Soliders (Deluxe Figure head, no goatee)
    1 x Rebel Fleet Troopers
    1 x Snowtroopers
    1 x Gamorrean Guards
    2 x Endor Rebel Soldiers
    1 x Ugnaught 2-packs
    2 x Death Star Trooper
    2 x Imperial Sentinel (EU)

    1998 REV 2
    1 x Stormtroopers
    TIE Pilots
    Luke as SOTE Coruscant Guard (army built as grunt)

    1 x Sandtroopers (new rank!)
    Death Star Gunners
    Tusken Raiders

    Jawa 2-packs
    AT-ST Drivers

    Hoth Rebel Soliders (Deluxe Figure head, no goatee)
    1 x Rebel Fleet Troopers
    1 x Snowtroopers
    x Gamorrean Guards
    1 x Endor Rebel Soldiers
    Ugnaught 2-packs
    2 x Death Star Trooper
    1 x Imperial Sentinel (EU)
    2 x Space Trooper (EU)
    2 x Dark Trooper (EU)

    1998 REV 3
    1 x Stormtroopers
    TIE Pilots
    Luke as SOTE Coruscant Guard (army built as grunt)
    Sandtroopers
    Death Star Gunners
    Tusken Raiders

    Jawa 2-packs
    AT-ST Drivers

    Hoth Rebel Soliders (Deluxe Figure head, no goatee)
    Rebel Fleet Troopers
    1 x Snowtroopers
    x Gamorrean Guards
    1 x Endor Rebel Soldiers
    x Ugnaught 2-packs
    2 x Death Star Trooper
    1 x Imperial Sentinel (EU)
    1 x Space Trooper (EU)
    1 x Dark Trooper (EU)
    2 x Death Star Droids
    2 x AT-AT Drivers

    1999
    1 x CommTech Jawa / Gonk
    2 x CommTech Stormtroopers
    1 x Endor Rebel Soldiers
    1 x Death Star Trooper
    1 x Death Star Droids
    1 x AT-AT Drivers
    4 x Battle Droids
    1 x Destroyer Droids

    1999 REV 1
    1 x CommTech Jawa / Gonk
    2 x CommTech Stormtroopers
    4 x Battle Droids
    1 x Destroyer Droids
    1 x Naboo Royal Security
    1 x Naboo Royal Guard
    1 x R2-B1
    1 x TC-14 (the droids are useful for background filler)

    2000
    1 x POTJ Tusken Raider
    1 x POTJ Coruscant Senate Guard
    2 x POTJ Security Droids
    2 x POTJ Gungan Warriors
    2 x POTJ Imperial Biker Scout
    1 x TPM Destroyer Droids
    1 x TPM Naboo Royal Security
    1 x TPM Naboo Royal Guard
    1 x CommTech Stormtrooper
    TPM R2-B1
    TPM TC-14


    I will go on actually, as I too want to see how this would have worked out over the years, but I'm going to post for the moment. Your comments are welcome at any juncture, as this super-list will take me a while.
    BAD Pts Need: R5-C7 lf leg (x2), , R4-P44 right leg BAD Pts Offered For Trade: PM me - I have lots of parts now including BG-J38!. New Kyle Katarn is also available.

  2. #2
    2001
    1 x Tusken Raider
    1 x Coruscant Senate Guard
    2 x Security Droids
    2 x Gungan Warriors
    2 x Imperial Biker Scout
    1 x Mon Calamari Soldier
    2 x Sandtrooper (POTJ)
    1 x R2-Q5

    2001 REV 1
    1 x Tessek (Quarren might be popular diorama filler)
    2 x Bespin Guard
    1 x Ketwol
    1 x Duro
    1 x Tusken Raider
    1 x Coruscant Senate Guard

    1 x Security Droids
    1 x Gungan Warriors
    1 x Imperial Biker Scout
    1 x Mon Calamari Soldier
    2 x Sandtrooper (POTJ)
    1 x R2-Q5

    2001 REV 2
    2 x Imperial Officer
    2 x Rebel Fleet Trooper
    1 x R4-M9 (with Mouse Droid - this is important! )
    Tessek
    1 Bespin Guard
    Ketwol
    1 x Duro

    1 x Tusken Raider
    1 x Coruscant Senate Guard

    1 x Security Droids
    1 x Gungan Warriors
    1 x Imperial Biker Scout
    1 x Mon Calamari Soldier
    2 x Sandtrooper (POTJ)
    R2-Q5

    2002

    4 x Sneak Preview Clone
    1 x Imperial Officer
    1 x Rebel Fleet Trooper
    2 x Super Battle Droid
    2 x Battle Droid
    2 x Geonosian Warrior

    2002 REV 1
    2 x Clone Captain (red)
    2 x Sneak Preview Clone
    2 x Royal Guard (red dudes)
    2 x Super Battle Droid
    2 x Battle Droid
    2 x Geonosian Warrior


    2002 REV 2
    1 x Massif with Geonosian Warrior
    2 x Endor Rebel Soldier
    1 x Clone Captain (red)
    2 x Sneak Preview Clone
    2 x Royal Guard (red dudes)
    1 x Super Battle Droid
    2 x Battle Droid
    1 x Geonosian Warrior

    2002 REV 3
    2 x Republic Gunship Pilot
    2 x Destroyer Droid
    1 x Tusken Raider
    2 x Imperial Officer (both head variants)
    2 x Rebel Fleet Trooper (both head variants)
    1 x Massif with Geonosian Warrior
    1 x Endor Rebel Soldier
    1 x Battle Droid


    2003
    2 x Clone Wars SA Clone Trooper
    1 x McQuarrie Concept Trooper
    1 x Clone Kids 2-pack (my personal suggestion)
    1 x Snowtrooper
    1 x Republic Gunship Pilot
    1 x Destroyer Droid
    1 x (new) Tusken Raider (camp ambush)
    1 x Imperial Officer (both head variants)
    1 x Rebel Fleet Trooper (both head variants)
    1 x Endor Rebel Soldier
    1 x Battle Droid

    2003 REV 1
    2 x Clone Wars ARC Trooper (both color variants)
    2 x Clone Wars SA Clone Trooper
    1 x McQuarrie Concept Trooper
    1 x Clone Kids 2-pack (my personal suggestion)
    1 x Snowtrooper
    1 x Republic Gunship Pilot
    1 x Destroyer Droid
    1 x (new) Tusken Raider (camp ambush)
    1 x Imperial Officer (both head variants)
    1 x Rebel Fleet Trooper (both head variants)


    2004

    1 x Hoth Rebel Solider (short guy)
    1 x J'Quille
    1 x Tanus Spijek
    1 x TIE Pilot
    2 x Clone Wars SA Clone Trooper
    1 x Clone Wars ARC Trooper (either color)
    1 x McQuarrie Concept Trooper
    1 x Snowtrooper
    1 x Republic Gunship Pilot
    1 x Destroyer Droid
    1 x Battle Droid

    2004 REV 1
    2 x Cloud Car Pilot
    1 x TIE Pilot
    1 x Jawa 2-pack
    1 x Gamorrean Guard repack
    2 x Scanning Trooper
    2 x Stormtrooper (CommTech era) repack
    1 x Sandtrooper (POTJ era) repack
    1 x Biker Scout (POTJ era) repack
    1 x Hoth Rebel Solider (short guy)
    BAD Pts Need: R5-C7 lf leg (x2), , R4-P44 right leg BAD Pts Offered For Trade: PM me - I have lots of parts now including BG-J38!. New Kyle Katarn is also available.

  3. #3
    2005
    1 x Wookiee Warrior (ROTS sneak preview)
    1 x Super Battle Droid
    2 x Clone Trooper
    2 x Grievous' Body Guard
    1 x Clone Commander
    1 x Clone Pilot
    1 x Cloud Car Pilot
    1 x Scanning Trooper
    1 x Stormtrooper (CommTech era) repack
    1 x Biker Scout (POTJ era) repack

    2005 REV 1
    2 x Clone Trooper Super-Articulated
    2 x Wookiee Warrior (both colors)
    1 x Niemoidian Warrior
    1 x Destroyer Droid
    1 x Super Battle Droid
    1 x Grievous' Body Guard
    1 x Clone Commander
    1 x Clone Pilot
    1 x Scanning Trooper
    1 x Stormtrooper (CommTech era) repack

    2005 REV 2
    2 x Utopaun Warrior
    2 x 501st Clone Trooper
    1 x Battle Droid
    1 x Senate Guard (red)
    1 x Senate Guard (blue)
    1 x Wookiee Warrior (new variants)
    1 x Destroyer Droid
    1 x Grievous' Body Guard
    1 x Clone Pilot
    1 x Hoth Rebel Soldier (repack)

    2006
    2 x ATAT Driver
    2 x Snowtrooper
    1 x Power Droid
    1 x Scorch
    1 x Utopaun Warrior
    1 x 501st Clone Trooper
    1 x Battle Droid
    1 x Senate Guard (red)
    1 x Wookiee Warrior (new variants)
    1 x Clone Pilot

    2006 REV 1
    2 x Firespeeder Pilot
    2 x Clone Trooper Utopau
    1 x ATAT Driver
    1 x Snowtrooper
    1 x Scorch
    1 x 501st Clone Trooper
    1 x Battle Droid
    1 x Senate Guard (red)
    1 x Wookiee Warrior (new variants)
    1 x Clone Pilot


    2006 REV 2
    1 x Hem Dazon (Arconas are useful)
    1 x Sandtrooper
    1 x Death Star Gunner
    2 x Endor Rebel Soldier (both variants)
    1 x Firespeeder Pilot
    1 x Clone Trooper Utopau
    1 x ATAT Driver
    1 x Snowtrooper
    1 x Scorch
    1 x 501st Clone Trooper
    1 x Clone Pilot


    2006 REV 3

    1 x Rep Been (form a Gungan High Council)
    1 x Naboo Soldier
    1 x Clone Trooper Sergeant (AOTC green)
    2 x Elite Corps Clone (Kashyyyk)
    2 x Endor Rebel Soldier (both variants)
    1 x Firespeeder Pilot
    1 x Clone Trooper Utopau
    1 x Super Battle Droid
    1 x Battle Droids 2-pack
    1 x 501st Clone Trooper

    2007
    2 x Galactic Marine
    2 x Airborne Trooper
    2 x Super Battle Droid
    1 x Concept Trooper
    1 x Clone Trooper Sergeant
    1 x Elite Corps Clone (Kashyyyk)
    1 x Endor Rebel Soldier (alternate variants)
    1 x Battle Droids 2-pack
    1 x Clone Trooper Pilot (as V-wing hits stores)


    2007 REV 1

    2 x Galactic Marine
    2 x Airborne Trooper
    2 x Super Battle Droid
    1 x Concept Trooper
    1 x Rebel Honor Guard
    2 x Death Star Troopers
    1 x Concept Fett (for Mandalorian Commando Squad Builders)
    1 x Battle Droids 2-pack


    2007 REV 2

    1 x Jawa with LIN droid
    2 x Stormtrooper
    1 x Galactic Marine
    1 x Airborne Trooper
    1 x Super Battle Droid
    1 x Concept Trooper
    1 x Rebel Honor Guard
    2 x Death Star Troopers
    1 x Concept Fett (for Mandalorian Commando Squad Builders)
    1 x Battle Droids 2-pack

    Certainly the upcoming Ewoks 2 pack, the Clone Trooper, and Destroyer Droid with shield should be considered for inclusion in this line as well.

    This concludes my recommendation for the time being. C'mon Hasbro! Try something like this.
    BAD Pts Need: R5-C7 lf leg (x2), , R4-P44 right leg BAD Pts Offered For Trade: PM me - I have lots of parts now including BG-J38!. New Kyle Katarn is also available.

  4. #4
    You know, when I look at these waves of MoSW figures, I see:

    - in 1997 Hasbro could have moved army builders and sold more units instead of leaving their retail partners swimming in Bossk, 21-B, 4-LOM, Dengar, ASP-7 Droids, and Malakalis.

    - in 1998 Hasbro wouldn't have drowned its retail partners in Leia Ewok Princesses, 8D8, and Mon Mothma.

    - in 1999, Luke, Han, and Greedo wouldn't have piled up so bad that R2 with Leia Holo and later waves with Motti and Leia wouldn't be so hard to find. Meanwhile folks could army-build the Naboo without drowing in Nute Gunray and Rune Haako, as well as get more Battle Droids and leave less Qui-Gons and Padmes.

    Similar comparisons could be made for each collecting year. In more recent years, many of the figures moved better than in years past, but Lushros Dofine really jammed up the Coruscant Wave while a lot of Utopau Clone army builders vacated that case fast.
    BAD Pts Need: R5-C7 lf leg (x2), , R4-P44 right leg BAD Pts Offered For Trade: PM me - I have lots of parts now including BG-J38!. New Kyle Katarn is also available.

  5. #5
    June 30th, 2006:
    TheJawa.com: Will there be more products specifically geared towards army building in the near future? Either as part of something like the recent EE exclusive Clone Troopers, basic case assortments with 3 each of 4 different troops, or solid cases?
    Hasbro: Troops will be an even greater focus later this Fall, but we won't be having cases as heavy as you suggest simply because we don't want to neglect the rest of the core characters and the other figures in the line. It's always a
    balancing act getting everything in.
    January 26, 2007:
    Rebelscum.com: Will Hasbro ever decide to change the distribution in their waves? Let's face it, army builder or not, clones (and the like) are easily the best selling figures due to their numbers on screen. Why not release a wave containing 1 each of slower moving characters such as Palpatine, Darth Vader, Senators, and Cantina extras and another consisting solely of clones (maybe 2 or 3 different ones per case). This way, Hasbro could ensure that peg warmers would not be over-shipped and there would be enough clones for all.
    Hasbro: The best way to manage the line, as we have been doing very successfully for the past two years, is to stick with a balanced approach. We balance our cases to ensure that we have the best mix at retail for both kid-targeted figures and collectors, ensuring the best retail "turn" on the pegs. Producing solid case packs of "niche" characters is a sure way to doom the productivity and would lead to these types of figures being dropped entirely, which nobody wants to see.
    And there are a bunch more comments from Hasbro saying basically the same thing over and over, they are firmly and consistently entrenched in their viewpoint about the matter. That thing about retailers not wanting multiple SKUs for the line, I didn't pull that out of thin air, that was what Hasbro said a while back.

    To be honest, I'm not sure they're entirely wrong about this. I do believe firmly that there are some army-building figures that should always be available, such as basic Clone Troopers and Stormtroopers, but based on how Hasbro behaves, I can only see that working as refreshes in wave revisions. I see all these ROTS super-articulated clones around here NOT selling simply because they have minor blue markings, collectors say they want unlimited army builders but the general audience is cooling to the rainbow of clones on the best mold available - what will happen in 4 more months when the casual consumers lose interest in them altogether and there are case after case of them hitting shelves? I remember back in 2000, Hasbro had been under constant criticism for not anticipating interesting in Darth Maul in wave 1 (even though Maul was 4 per case when no other figure in the assortment was that many), so nearly a year too late they put out a solid case of Mauls and then put out another where they updated the accuracy of the face paint mask (this was the infamous fat-face Maul variation on a new card) and within weeks the pegs were now bursting with that wave 1 Maul figure because there was no balance.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "In Brooklyn, a castle, is where dwell I"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  6. #6
    Thank you for giving serious thought to my proposal! It is appreciated.

    Naturally, I love a good debate, and I don't always agree with Hasbro.

    Quote Originally Posted by JediTricks View Post
    June 30th, 2006:
    TheJawa.com: Will there be more products specifically geared towards army building in the near future? Either as part of something like the recent EE exclusive Clone Troopers, basic case assortments with 3 each of 4 different troops, or solid cases?
    Hasbro: Troops will be an even greater focus later this Fall, but we won't be having cases as heavy as you suggest simply because we don't want to neglect the rest of the core characters and the other figures in the line. It's always a
    balancing act getting everything in.


    The regular SKU would be running, on traditional cardbacks no less, supplying all the core-characters fan purchases will support. For carded collectors, the troops will also be carded, in pretty much the same quantities they always have been. Army builders will buy from the "tube packs."
    January 26, 2007:
    Rebelscum.com: Will Hasbro ever decide to change the distribution in their waves? Let's face it, army builder or not, clones (and the like) are easily the best selling figures due to their numbers on screen. Why not release a wave containing 1 each of slower moving characters such as Palpatine, Darth Vader, Senators, and Cantina extras and another consisting solely of clones (maybe 2 or 3 different ones per case). This way, Hasbro could ensure that peg warmers would not be over-shipped and there would be enough clones for all.
    Hasbro: The best way to manage the line, as we have been doing very successfully for the past two years, is to stick with a balanced approach. We balance our cases to ensure that we have the best mix at retail for both kid-targeted figures and collectors, ensuring the best retail "turn" on the pegs. Producing solid case packs of "niche" characters is a sure way to doom the productivity and would lead to these types of figures being dropped entirely, which nobody wants to see.
    It has been successful, Hasbro? Really? Then I'm just imagining all the Jerjerrods, C-3POs, and Lushros that are hanging around?

    That thing about retailers not wanting multiple SKUs for the line, I didn't pull that out of thin air, that was what Hasbro said a while back.
    Well, they are wrong in my point of view. That's what I am saying.

    I see all these ROTS super-articulated clones around here NOT selling simply because they have minor blue markings,
    We never asked for all these EU Clones to army build with. Some do like them, admittedly. But I think one needs enough 501st Clones, for example, that you build your army and then you don't want to raise another one.

    collectors say they want unlimited army builders but the general audience is cooling to the rainbow of clones on the best mold available
    As you saw by way of my examples above, army builders are not limited to just white armor, OT or PT.

    - what will happen in 4 more months when the casual consumers lose interest in them altogether and there are case after case of them hitting shelves?
    The replenishing orders at individual stores will slow down, and thus the warehouse orders will cool. Finally, low demand will scale back production. That's the way it's supposed to work. Right now you throw in figures like Malakali was and you're trying to say he's part of the same product line in spite of the fact that he sells very differently.


    I remember back in 2000, Hasbro had been under constant criticism for not anticipating interesting in Darth Maul ....
    Darth Maul was a very unusual situation because he was a scalper favorite - so much so that it was not only kids and collectors shopping for him (and let's face it - diorama builders needed what? Only 4-5 of him at most?) But a scalper would enter the store in those days and try and buy 10 Mauls immediately if they could get their hands on that many. It was rather sickening.

    The other thing that might have happened, was that scalpers returned a lot of the Maul figures they couldn't sell. I didn't see solid cases of Darth Maul myself, but there might have been. I guess JT did see them. Those arriving, on top of the returns, and you'd have a problem.
    BAD Pts Need: R5-C7 lf leg (x2), , R4-P44 right leg BAD Pts Offered For Trade: PM me - I have lots of parts now including BG-J38!. New Kyle Katarn is also available.

  7. #7
    Tycho, i said that i supported your idea on the LA finds thread and so here's a few of my thoughts...

    More than anything, I feel that Hasbro has to see this as a win-win situation for them and unfortunately their responses might be lukewarm at best to this proposal.

    A question i want to ask you is if you think there really are that many army builders out there? Not that we of SSG are indicative of everyone that purchases SW figures but even among us, it doesn't seem like there are that many troop builders. I have 20 utapau clones (i think) and have probably passed up that many. If i wanted to, I'm sure i could've ordered at least that many from hasbrotoyshop or kaybeetoys.com. I'm sure this is a function of Hasbro putting this particular figure in several cases and revisions and if every army builder figure was shipped like this, we wouldn't really need the Militaries line.

    I think that if the packaging were done nicely enough that even MOC collectors might want to pick up sets. I also think that if they were affordable enough then kids might want to pick up sets as well. How many of us, when we were young, would've bought packs of stormies, snowtroopers, biker scouts if they were available? So having said that, i'm wondering, Tycho, how many figures do you think should be in these packs? maybe 3 or 4? and should a pack consist of all the same figures or have 1 Galactic Marine, 1 Airborne, 1 Super Battle Droid, 1 Death Star Trooper, for instance?

  8. #8
    Thanks for your input Figrin. I like the support. You do make some good counter-points, and there appears to be a little confusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by figrin bran View Post

    A question i want to ask you is if you think there really are that many army builders out there? Not that we of SSG are indicative of everyone that purchases SW figures but even among us, it doesn't seem like there are that many troop builders.
    There are enough that in many cases, there are not movie-appearing clones on the pegs at most retailers. Sure they have the EU Siege Battalion or Engineer or 5th Fleet Security Clones - whomever they are. (Siege Battalion were supposed to be stationed at Kato Niemoidia according to their card - they served under Plo Koon - but we only saw the ARC 170 pilots (standard Clone Pilot uniform) that killed Koon during Order 66).

    On Hasbro's part, that was smart for 2 reasons. The movie-authentic army builder does pass them up, and they are left on the rack for the screaming kid that wants a clone (or several). On the other hand, the really over-enthusiastic Army Builder will create a command for General Plo Koon's ground forces. They may even fight what? - more Hasbro Battle Droids (sold). So EU Clones can find a sale and many like to give every Jedi their own particular command:

    Anakin - 501st with Fox, Bow, then Appo (I guess it's a high fatality job)
    Obi-Wan - Utopau with Cody
    Yoda - Kashyyyk 41st Special Ops with Gree (Luminara & Quinlan Vos' as well)
    Mace - EU purple
    Plo Koon - siege battalion (EU green)
    Ki Adi Mundi - Galactic Marines under Bacara
    Aayla Secura - Bly's Star Corps (Bariss Offee's as well)
    Stass Allie - Neyo's BARC Troopers
    and so forth.

    Let alone Palpatine's Shocktroopers - commanded by Deviss?

    This also diminished demand for EU Clones, as many had enough to build up armies with here, and regular plain white clones were not in as high of demand (Basic #6 and SA #41 before repaints). Specialties in the movie like AT-RT Driver, AT-TE / Turbo Tank Gunner, and so forth weren't high priorities either.

    I have 20 utapau clones (i think) and have probably passed up that many.
    You're an Army Builder. You're not when you say "I have one to open, one to keep carded," or some other combination like that. When you have at least 2 loose, you have some kind of Army and at least more of the same figure for the same scene (or display arrangement) than you might buy of say, Obi-Wan (not counting different figures of him like Mustafar versus Pilot). Some will take it to JediMasterSal's extreme - others will do with a lot less than myself or you (I think I have about 20 501st Clones, but less Utopau or Kashyyyk - purposely as well).

    If i wanted to, I'm sure i could've ordered at least that many from hasbrotoyshop or kaybeetoys.com.
    Well, they seem to have cracked down on Army Building. My package with 6 Death Star Troopers has not yet arrived, but I've heard they limited it to 2 per order now (just after I ordered as a matter of fact)

    I'm sure this is a function of Hasbro putting this particular figure in several cases and revisions and if every army builder figure was shipped like this, we wouldn't really need the Militaries line.
    I'll agree with that. In actuality, the Utopau Clone and 501st have been handled quite well. It remains to be seen how the new guys like the Galactic Marine and Airborne Trooper fare. However, I don't recall if the Kashyyyk Special Ops Trooper (biker scout repaint) is slated for a Saga Legends release. That would be wise. The figure is still relatively new and I'd buy a few more if I saw them.

    The various battle campaign markings actually help cut down on clone hoarding in the sense that I'm done with 501st and Utopau and would ignore them if I saw them resurface. I think. I'm tempted to set up some scene with Appo and Vader and some 501's threatening Antilles and Organa (from Dark Lord).

    I think that if the packaging were done nicely enough that even MOC collectors might want to pick up sets.
    Cost can be saved by not doing nice packages. I wouldn't say they'd want to knock sales to MOMC collectors, but that wouldn't affect the line moving and might actually stimulate sales of Tusken Raiders or non-main-conflict figures offered in the line. Just for completists.

    I also think that if they were affordable enough then kids might want to pick up sets as well. How many of us, when we were young, would've bought packs of stormies, snowtroopers, biker scouts if they were available?
    While there could be "buckets of Stormtroopers," this wouldn't work for Jawas or Gamorreans that well I'd think. My proposal is for the single-packed figures in the case assortments listed above. To be sure, "buckets" of select figures from the line might be offered - stormtroopers, scout troopers, 501sts, Utopaus, etc. but more than 1 Bespin Guard would be sold to diorama builders - just not a bucket of them. In affect, some buckets might be offered with the most popular troops to help satiate demand for those so the cases would not choke on unsold Rebel Troopers or something like that.

    So having said that, i'm wondering, Tycho, how many figures do you think should be in these packs? maybe 3 or 4?
    Perhaps 5 for $25 or so in a bucket. That's a bargain (would be $35 after tax on cardbacks). If you look at Fallucia, you have Aayla, Bly, and 3 troopers. Most of us don't want the extra Aayla, and a few more don't want her or an extra Bly - they just want the troops to add to these 2 figures they already own. Replacing these 2 with two more troopers and settling the price at $25 or even $20 like the battle packs are run at now (with fancier packaging I might add) would do just fine. Our armies would cost less, be easier to build, and so forth.

    Hasbro approaches the current battlepacks (a lot of them) by adding regular line figures to make the display more attractive (Vader in the Tantive IV pack, Mace in the purple Clones pack, etc.) Maybe they also want to force more sales of figures like Aayla out upon us? (They might weight their benefit analysis of each figure tooling with more favor than say "we sold 30 more Aaylas, but 150 more StarCorps Clones." As Army Builders, we don't necessarily favor the latter.


    and should a pack consist of all the same figures or have 1 Galactic Marine, 1 Airborne, 1 Super Battle Droid, 1 Death Star Trooper, for instance?
    That could also sell, but wouldn't be as directly useful compared with when people could directly pick out the exact figures they want a lot of.

    In any case, the proposal is extremely late. As I illustrated, this could have worked well over the last 12 years. Most of us, myself and JediMasterSal included, have pretty much all we need. There might be new troop builders out there coming of age (that is turning 4 or older), but with the movies behind us and the TV shows sort of still in limbo, we don't know exactly how the future looks for supporting this idea.

    That is in fact the best argument against it - "too little, too late." We'll see. The current case assortments seem to be pretty good for the first few waves:

    Galactic Marine
    Airborne
    Concept Trooper
    Super Battle Droid
    -----------------
    R2D2
    Obi-Wan
    Mace
    Lava Miner


    AND

    Death Star Trooper
    Rebel Honor Guard
    Mc Quarrie Fett w. 2 heads
    -------------------------
    Biggs
    Luke
    Han

    They'll at least keep the core characters on the pegs in stock. I wouldn't exactly call them pegwarming at this point. They are the only TAC in stock since the troops aren't going to sit.

    I mean, we'll see how future TAC waves sell. But the future looks brighter on its own. However, those of us who are saturated in the troops of collecting years' past, did so while boosting Malakali's sales for Hasbro (remember the retailers had to buy them from Hasbro and then clearanced them eventually). So maybe this idea is better for us and not for Hasbro?
    BAD Pts Need: R5-C7 lf leg (x2), , R4-P44 right leg BAD Pts Offered For Trade: PM me - I have lots of parts now including BG-J38!. New Kyle Katarn is also available.

  9. #9
    Thanks for your clarifications and answers Tycho!

    although i've been buying SW figures as long as most of us have been, i've only been army building since 05 and so i don't have as many OT troops as most other army builders. I would stand to benefit greatly were this to ever get off the ground.

    I sure wouldn't mind the plain packaging at all. I think Sal once talked about troopers being plastic bagged in put in a plain white box. The reason why i suggested nicer packaging is because well, Hasbro seems to always drag its feet when it comes to packages of army builders. Like you pointed out, the battlepacks are only partial army builders and they always feel compelled to stick in Aayla or Vader or Mace. Hasbro seems to always get cold feet and so that's why i suggested the nice packaging for MOC'ers so that they could get it into their heads as a win win situation.

  10. #10
    That's a good idea, Figrin.

    Your situation also proves that there is a market for OT army building.

    Enertainment Earth is still offering the 1998 Endor Rebels in a 4-pack

    They have astromechs of course

    and more astromechs

    I believe there were (in the past):

    CommTech Stormtroopers 4
    Sandtroopers 4 (I'm not sure about the ranks included)
    Rebel Fleet Troopers 4 (2 of each headsculpt)
    AOTC Clone Troopers 4 white "clean"
    AOTC Clone Troopers 4 white "battle hardened"
    AOTC Clone Troopers 4 ranked (yellow, red, blue, green) "clean"
    AOTC Clone Troopers 4 ranked (yellow, red, blue, green) "battle hardened"

    As to any of the rank packs, they were sort of hard to deal with, as there could be:

    4 sergeants to 1 lieutenant

    thus

    32 sergeants to 8 lieutenants

    and

    8 lieutenants to 4 captains

    and

    4 captains to 2 Commanders

    So 4-packs really don't work for rank colored clones that well.
    BAD Pts Need: R5-C7 lf leg (x2), , R4-P44 right leg BAD Pts Offered For Trade: PM me - I have lots of parts now including BG-J38!. New Kyle Katarn is also available.

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