Where did TPM go wrong?

[Pendo]

Not everyone disliked TPM, but those who did all have their own reasons for why they think it was poorly made.

For me I think GWL has introduced too many new characters, and I think he has gone overboard with special effects. It is also missing some classic Star Wars elements such as the lightspeed effect from inside the cockpit and C-3PO's golden coverings. Just little things like that would tie it in with the clasic trilogy and please many Star Wars fans.

What are your reasons for disliking Episode I?

PENDO!

[JediTricks]

- Anakin should have been an early teenager, not a 9 year old. This is even worse when you notice that 9 year old Anakin is being played by a 7 year old Jake Lloyd (except in the pickup shots). Reading the illustrated screenplay gives the impression that being around 12 years old is what Lucas originally had in mind, then made the kid younger near the last minute.

- Corny little "up to the minute" pop-culture lines like "Are you brain dead" and "exsqueeze me!" should never have been.

- Anakin's repeated use of "Oops" and "Yippie" is simply awful. No kids talk like that, especially not serious-faced slaves.

- Speaking of which, none of these slaves are shown being unhappy slaves. If human slaves are well-treated on Tatooine for being prized possessions rather than workforce, then this should have been explained in Shmi's hovel.

- Too much forced comedy like the battle droids' fear of facing the 2 Jedi.

- Another, very specific instance is where the movie works extremely hard to take dignity away from Jar Jar under the guise of comedy. However, comedy that is this forced rarely seems funny to anybody but the lowest common denominator.

- Jar Jar doesn't get to show depth except in one brief (and chopped up) scene with the queen. Thus, Jar Jar never really does anything to redeem his bumbling, even showing extreme cowardace in the end battle.

- A lack of realistic "galactic history" in too many places, except for;

- The reuse of Tatooine felt very wasteful, especially to;

- The way Anakin grows up on Tatooine, and;

- Having Anakin build C-3PO.

- Obi-Wan doesn't get enough to do while Qui-Gon feels almost completely like someone who wouldn't be part of the Jedi order.

- Darth Maul is supposed to be a bad guy but comes off more as a pit bull. If this guy is a sith, he should have been shown with some good lines, some individuality away from his master, and some smarts - not just a flashy lightsaber battle.

- The great race feels like a totally pointless diversion after a LONG BORING stay on Tatooine.

- The film is showing almost entirely one path rather than showing two paths of some of the main characters before the join-up near the end. This is especially painful in Tatooine because there's nothing to distract us from the nothingness of Qui-Gon's visit.

- The total dependancy on CGI and a director who doesn't like to give actors, including child actors who have no life experience to draw their own emotional acting base from, gives the film a phoney feeling.

- Too many major coincidences, like the editing of the final battle that makes every single thing that happens to Anakin a coincidence rather than a combination of his skills mixed with the Force. The will of the Force is not enough alone to drive the universe, if Luke didn't have the skill to pilot an X-wing, he never would have had the opportunity to trust his feelings about making the kill-shot. Anakin is simply dragged around parts of the battle.

- The desire to explain the science of the Force with "midichlorians" is unacceptable to me. Not only does it hurt the saga, but it trivializes that magic/myth saga feeling of the classic trilogy.

- Finally, the whole virgin birth issue is really too much. Even in the screenplay, Lucas has Shmi finish her sentence with "There was no father... that I know of," insinuating that Shmi's life as a slave hasn't been too pleasant at times. However, this is edited out of the film to give no question to the parentage of Anakin - a sour note which rings false compared to its real-world counterpart.

[Rollo Tomassi]

For me, the first episode lacked the underdog feel of the original trilogy. Instead of the rebellious trio of spunky young freedom fighter, naive young farmboy, and cocky space pirate, which gives the middle finger to authority (and are heroes we can all identify with), we get the LEADER of a PLANET and basically what amounts to two members of an order that is equal parts Religion and Law Enforcement. The complete antithesis of the rebels in the OT. It's hard to root for stodgy, reserved, boring people like that. And if you got no emotional connection to the protagonists, you got no movie.

That and the fruit stand lady. "Storm's coming Ani! better get home quick!" Aiieeee! Scratch my eyes out, she was annoying!

[evenflow]

midichlorians, that was my problem with it.

[SithDroid]

I agree almost 1000% with you JediTricks. If I may elaborate.

The forced cmedy of the Battle Droids. Is it just me or do they seem like a bad beat cop. Like when Qui-Gon is talking to one of them and he asks where they are going and the droid has to ask twice. Hello, your a droid it's not like you're human and can FORGET or not HEAR what the person just said. Also the droid pauses by saying "Uh..." A Droid would not say that. Especially a mass produced Battle Droid. Now Protocol Droids I could understand.

Jar-Jar, Jar-Jar, Jar-Jar, Jar-Jar, Jar-Jar. By far the WORST character ever created. Totally out of place. The use of his primitive speaking, annoying voice, and stupid scenes such as stepping in poop, getting f*rted on by the Eopie, getting his lips caught in the energy beams, the entire sequence of him being a bumbling fool during the gungan battle, etc... I could go on and on about how ridiculous this character is. Also how he is treated as a great hero when in reality he is a coward. Stupid if you ask me. I hope that he has only about 5 minutes of screen time in AOTC and that he gets killed early on.

The use of Tatooine seemed out of place. It was like GL just said "Hey where should I set this, some place new, nah I know I'll use Tatooine the fans will love it." Whatever, using Tatooine as Anakins home only creates problems with the OT which I have gone into length in another thread and don't feel like restating.

Anakin building C-3P0. Why? Who cares? That only adds to the confusion of why C-3P0 doesn't tell Luke about his father in the OT. I'm tired of people saying he had a memory wipe and such just to come up with excuses for GL's poor writing.

Midichlorians. I agree with JT here when I say that it destroys the whole magic/myth of the OT by trying to explain it. No one ever cared. GL is the only one who wanted to explain it more. I for one am happy not knowing about the midichlorians and have figured a way to edit it out of the film in another thread if GL ever decides to make a Special Edition of TPM that the fans will really like.

The virgin birth is ridiculous too. GL is only using this as an excuse to make Anakin seem like such an important child. No one cares. A father that had been killed would have been a better solution.

So in a nutshell, the perfect TPM would have no mention of midichlorians and no Jar-Jar, or at least less of him and his comedy. The other stuff I could live with, but these I can't.

[El Chuxter]

I actually liked TPM, but here's a few reasons it didn't live up to all my expectations and isn't as much fun to re-watch as the CT.

1) There were too many characters who just happened to tie in. Artoo just happened to be Amidala's astromech. Threepio just happened to be built by Ani (even though this contradicts all pre-1999 bios that he's over a century old and has never had a memory wipe). Jabba just happened to run Mos Espa. Bib Fortuna just happened to be his majordomo (again contradicting an EU story that is actually superior to the film, not to mention making him pretty old). Diva Shaliqua just happened to wear Leia's slave garb. Jawas just happened to shout "Uttini!" when the pods passed by. Greedo just happened to be a child contemporary of Anakin (yet again contradicting better stories).

2) Tatooine. For the planet furthest from the bright center of the universe, everything sure revolves around it.

3) Yoda. He acted like a dingleberry and, well, if he's so prominent in the Jedi order, why was he never part of the purge?

4) Maul. There was the enormous buildup of this character, and for what? I don't even think he was in the movie long enough to qualify as a pit bull!

5) Jar Jar. He was funny for the first five minutes, and could've been funny for two hours if he wasn't shoved down our throats.

I'd not thought about the Battle Droids, but for droids that lack even menial intelligence--they're controlled by the Neimoidian battleship, and their heads fall off with even a slight tap!--they said a lot of stupid things.

[SithDroid]

Good points El Chuxter. Why does Lucas decide that he can just dismiss the EU? Some of it is far superior to the stuff that he is writing. But because SW is "his baby," then we all have to suffer when GL doesn't do his homework. If GL doesn't care about holding up the integrity of the EU, then stop making stuff. None of the comic books OR the novels conflict with each other. If the two seperate companies can keep track of over 300+ comics and 100+ novels and not screw up continuity, then surely someone can advise GL of how to do it. I just think GL didn't do his homework before he wrote TPM and it shows in the film. That and GL isn't the same person he was when he made SW back in 1977. Plus he hadn't directed or written a screenplay in over 20 years. All he ever did after SW was produce. He has been out of practice for such a long time that it shows on the screen. Plus if I recall from interviews with Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher, they said that GL never really new how to direct. He was extremely quiet. A lot of the stuff that happened was because they created it themselves including Anthony Daniels improvising most of his classic lines. I don't know perhaps I'm being over critical, but I like continuity of things and if it gets messed up I tend to blame the person responsible and that person, this time, just happens to be GL. I am an actor/writer so I am probably more judgemental than other people would be.

[JediTricks]

Crap, I forgot about Yoda in my list. Yoda should never have been in this movie, it hurts his OT character too much and adds absolutely nothing to the story. If he had been referred to in a discussion with Obi-Wan about training, that might have worked, but seeing him didn't work for me.

I also forgot about the "Kevin Bacon" effect this movie created. There are way too few degrees of separation between some characters now thanks to Ep 1, did Jabba really have to be the Hutt who started the race, did Bib really have to be his majordomo, did 3PO really have to meet R2 "for the first time"?

[Wolfwood319]

I don't think GL has to stick to "EU" but I definately think that TPM tied in with OT way too much.

Anakin should've been about 13, not 9. Its going to be hard to see a relationship develop between Anakin and Padme, when in the last movie, one was almost 20 and the other was a kid.

Qui-Gon's role up to coruscant should've been Obi-Wan, Obi should've found Anakin on Tatooine, too.

Jar Jar should've been less of a comedic tool, and instead a fully fleshed out character, a lot of potential wasted IMO

More of Maul, he really didn't do anything besides the Jedi duel

Less FX, if I want to watch scenes of nothing but cgi models on screen, I'll watch Toy Story. That gungan battle still looks like a cartoon to me. What ever happened to muppets?

There shouldn't have been 4 battles going on at the same time at the end of the flick, it worked in Jedi but really didn't work here.

Midichloreans

Theres more to be fixed, but these are the main things that need fixing, IMO.

[SithDroid]

One thing I have always wondered is how come in the original trilogy Obi-Wan says to Luke.

"Luke. You will go to the Dagobah system. There you will learn from Yoda, the Jedi Master who insrtucted me."

I was always under the impression that Yoda trained Obi-wan instead of Qui-Gon. I guess by instructed he could mean through mentoring, which is what he did in EP I. But in the OT Yoda talks about how Obi-Wan was reckless and I believe at one point uses the word trained. When did Yoda have time to train Obi-Wan? Before Qui-Gon trained him. And if so, when did Yoda join the Jedi Council? It would seem to me that he has served on it for a long time. It also seems like it would be hard to train a Padawan if your time was devoted to the council. Can anyone clear this up for me or is this just another horrible case of GL not doing his homework?