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  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by El Chuxter View Post
    Of course, then Anakin Solo died anyway, which was stupid, since it undermined the purpose of Chewie's sacrifice.
    Same reason why it's ridiculous for the Emperor to come back...his spirit in a cloned body. Worst EU plot point ever.

  2. #32
    I have given this some thought and talked it over with JediTricks on the phone.

    When the Clone Wars have run their course, I would like a new CLASSIC Star Wars cartoon show to help offset the imbalnce of a full library of prequel-based animations versus OT offerings.

    However, the Clone Wars have set the tone for what kind of SW show attracts a kid-audience: lots of Jedi waving around those flashy-sword-things and using The Force.

    OK.

    Now you have the classic hero characters that are essential: Han, Luke, Leia, Chewie, Lando, Wedge, Admiral Ackbar. Add Mara Jade and Talon Karrde from the EU. A new hero character (like Ahsoka or Rex) could be added to intensify interest in the story.

    Adversaries available (like Dooku, Ventress, Grievous, Cad Bane, etc) include (from the OT Expanded Universe pantheon): Ysanne Isaard, Baron Fel, Kir Kanos, Admiral Daala, and Boba Fett (still around after escaping the Sarlaac). A main baddy is needed, but whether the Clone Emperor or Grand Admiral Thrawn are available, depends upon when the story is set. A new "main baddy" could be easily invented and help the storyline along a lot.

    Kid coming-of-age characters like Ahsoka and Boba Fett in the CW series include Jaina, Jacen, and Anakin Solo (depending upon when this storyline is set).

    I think the Jedi Academy Era (after Dark Empire and the Heir To The Empire series) is the best time to set an OT SW cartoon.

    Options for it are:

    1) During the Trilogy - you can't go before ANH and have Luke doing anything, so it has to be after Episode IV. But this era has been done to death in the comics and books.

    2) Shadows of the Empire - it's been done, though I'd love to see it animated as a fan.

    3) Rogue Squadron - you really need more Jedi. I personally love RS as "Tycho," but I don't think it's the best option here.

    4) Dark Empire - it has possibilities, like Luke on the Dark Side.

    5) Heir to the Empire - An animated Thrawn would be loved by all I'm sure. Seeing Mara in action would also be great and the cast of characters brought in by Timothy Zhan was amazing. Still - if you like it you can read the book. But this one could really work.

    6) Jedi Academy Era - OK - this was discussed above and it's the best option because of multiple Jedi like CW.

    7) New Jedi Order - I'd so love to see this animated. The comic series (Invasion) is everything I wanted - except that I want even more! As a fan, I'm all for this. However, it may not re-introduce traditional Star Wars, although with Imperial co-operation in the face of galactic invasion, you might see New Jedi fighting alongside stormtrooper clones versus biologicals versus droids, so it would play similarly. And the comic series is already started for marketing.

    8) Legacy - Let's not trample on the books, but we can go ahead to the future with Ben Skywalker and the adventures of his son, Cole, as he's grown up beyond the current novel series (Cade Skywalker's father).

    I think choice number 6 above,or 7 if you want to chance it, work the best.

    Discussion?
    BAD Pts Need: R5-C7 lf leg (x2), , R4-P44 right leg BAD Pts Offered For Trade: PM me - I have lots of parts now including BG-J38!. New Kyle Katarn is also available.

  3. #33
    I felt that Shadows had really made something special out of a limited amount of time, but gave very little room for additional storytelling, there's just not as much to say in that ESB to ROTJ timeline now, the Rebs mass, the Imps rebuild, the Bothans spy. Also, the Rebellion goes underground, that's not going to make for exciting TV, although I should think it'd make for better novels (if you can get around the earliest ANH to ESB to ROTJ materials out there).

    I actually might like to see stories about the early Rebellion, the academy, Luke's time on Tatooine growing up (though not the "Wormie" version that Lucas shoehorned into the script late in preproduction on ANH). I'm not sure they could carry a whole series, but an anthology might work. Biggs jumping ship to join the rebellion, Han leaving the Empire to go be a pirate, Leia being a senator while sneaking around for the Rebellions, there's fertile ground for an anthology. In some ways, that era is the EASIEST one for the OT to mine this way, the characters aren't as established as they'll become from ANH on. Heck, between Han & Chewie being pirates, Han in the Empire, Biggs and Luke flying T-16s, Biggs at the academy, Leia in the senate being a spy, Galen Marek's activities, Lando and the Falcon, Han getting the Falcon, and various other maneuverings, that sounds like an anthology series that could easily fill 2 seasons right there - and I hadn't even mentioned the last of the Jedi being swept out by the Stormtroopers that we caught glimpses of in The Force Unleashed! It just may not appeal to kids though, and that's a huge problem - can Lucasfilm figure out a way to make an animated pre-ANH series that can tell extended stories to just fans? Probably not, there's less money in the idea, but there may be accolades and Lucasfilm could use them for Lucas Animation to move forward in the industry after Clone Wars.

    I agree that Rogue Squadron is not a great choice. There are lots of tales and characters and actions, but they don't feel as broad, they don't feel as important in animation I think. They exist in the comics best, a mix of action and storytelling that suggests more than the stories can deliver.

    Dark Empire doesn't exist. Sorry, nope, that mistake was never made, I refuse to admit it exists.

    Zahn's era is fertile, has great use of main characters, adds just the right number of new characters. I'm not sure main characters can be the focus of a cartoon after ANH though, they're not as exciting on a daily basis IMO once you've seen their biggest moments. How can Luke live up to ESB and ROTJ saber battles on a weekly basis?

    I can't speak to NJO, I haven't familiarized myself that much with it, it didn't hold much appeal to me personally. I don't find the Vong's look or tech to be particularly engaging though, it works better written than seen.

    Legacy has a mountain of room to grow as a cartoon, it's almost best suited for that type of storytelling. It can go in any and every direction at once, it has familiar characters but not too limited. It has flashback value. It has imp forces and tons of disposable Sith. Pirates and political intrigue and the Force and lots of gray areas. But there are tons of pitfalls too, without vision at the reins, it'll go off the rails quickly, and a lot of the intrigue in the early comics seemed to me to be above the heads of a younger audience.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "We named the dog 'Chewbacca'!"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  4. #34
    The problem with doing a post ROTJ series is that so many of the major characters are EU and unknown by most kids. No child is going to want to see Chewie die.

    Clone Wars is perfect because it takes place between two movies so the majority of the characters are known. Ashoka and Rex are the only major newcomers while others from the comics are sprinkled in here and there.

    Instead of a TV show, why not do short films like the Clone Wars movie that was at the theaters? The script is already there in the novels just follow the books and you will have a hit.
    Nowhere in your incoherent ramblings did you come anywhere close to the answer. Thanks to you, everyone in this room is now stupider having heard you. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul. -Billy Madison-

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by 2-1B View Post
    Same reason why it's ridiculous for the Emperor to come back...his spirit in a cloned body. Worst EU plot point ever.
    While that is bad I'd say the worst would be when a freakin' planet landed on Chewie's head.

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Metalmute View Post
    The problem with doing a post ROTJ series is that so many of the major characters are EU and unknown by most kids. No child is going to want to see Chewie die.

    Clone Wars is perfect because it takes place between two movies so the majority of the characters are known. Ashoka and Rex are the only major newcomers while others from the comics are sprinkled in here and there.

    Instead of a TV show, why not do short films like the Clone Wars movie that was at the theaters? The script is already there in the novels just follow the books and you will have a hit.
    What????? Chewie dies????? Next you're going to tell me that Santa's not real...

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by bkusna View Post
    What????? Chewie dies????? Next you're going to tell me that Santa's not real...

    I won't go that far but Diet Dr. Pepper tastes more like regular Dr. Pepper.......
    Nowhere in your incoherent ramblings did you come anywhere close to the answer. Thanks to you, everyone in this room is now stupider having heard you. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul. -Billy Madison-

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Metalmute View Post
    The problem with doing a post ROTJ series is that so many of the major characters are EU and unknown by most kids.....

    Clone Wars is perfect because it takes place between two movies so the majority of the characters are known. Ashoka and Rex are the only major newcomers while others from the comics are sprinkled in here and there.
    Asajj Ventress, Cad Bane, Hondo Onokah, and I dare say Aurra Sing isn't exactly a movie character. Now Quinlan Vos is coming...

    As long as the characters are cool, they will work. There are some gems in post-ROTJ Expanded Universe to be sure. The heavy-hitters are from Timothy Zhan's Heir to the Empire novels of course.

    Instead of a TV show, why not do short films like the Clone Wars movie that was at the theaters? The script is already there in the novels just follow the books and you will have a hit.
    This is a good idea. Many of the fans who can read would like to see this happen. Shadows of the Empire and Heir to the Empire top the list. However if there are contract issues with using these authors' works or the desire to do something brand new, the Jedi Academy Era works really, really well. (This is 7 years after ROTJ and Admiral Daala and Ysanne Isaard have consolidated the Empire to thwart expansion of the New Republic and even conquer back some territory. Lady-baddies this time (well we have Ventress now). Also, a new Imperial warlord (a man) can be created to try and usurp what was once under Palpatine's power. [Thrawn and the Clone Emperor have been defeated by this time]. Jaina and Jacen would only be 2 years old, however. But Kyp Durron would be a rogue Jedi Apprentice leading some of his own Dark Jedi. However, Luke cannot "defeat him" by killing him. Durron becomes a Light-Side (though rogue) Jedi Master in Luke's NJO eventually and Han Solo can control Durron who looks up to Han as his hero.

    No child is going to want to see Chewie die.
    Quote Originally Posted by JimJamBonds
    While that is bad I'd say the worst would be when a freakin' planet landed on Chewie's head.
    So readers know: JimJam is exaggerating. The Yuuzhan Vong used force-field generating plant-life bio-engineered large enough and strong enough to pull a moon out of its orbit and crash into an inhabited planet. The New Republic was trying to evaccuate everyone and the Falcon was the last ship out of there when Anakin Solo tried to save some children and Chewie went after him, sacraficing himself to get Anakin and the kids back on the ship.

    Chewie dies. Then later Anakin dies, never really reconciliated with his father. An adult theme to NJO - not "Let's go hug an Ewok" for an ending.

    Since SW has young 20-30 year old heroes:

    Anakin 19-22 (AOTC-ROTS)
    Padme 24-27 (AOTC-ROTS)
    Obi-Wan 34-37(AOTC-ROTS)

    Luke (19-23) ANH-ROTJ
    Leia (19-23) ANH-ROTJ
    Han (29-33) ANH-ROTJ

    I would have been much more BRUTAL as a writer and eventually, and heroically killed off at least Han (54-59) and Leia (44-49), possibly Luke (44-49) by NJO.

    I would have instead made the transition to mainly focusing on

    Jaina Solo (16-21, NJO)
    Jacen Solo (16-21, NJO)
    Anakin Solo (14-killed at age 17, NJO)

    in the later SW Expanded Universe.

    To some extent the books did this so SW didn't become a serial about 40 -50 somethings, and then onward. But until the huge demand for Jaina and Jacen action figures, their market value was underestimated by licensing, I think.

    Now SW fans are in their mid-30's (a huge proportion of them) so Luke being in his 40's doesn't bother the OT fan base as much, I'd think. Han is getting really old however. He's about 65 in the EU at present, and a GRANDPARENT!

    Jacen is dead however. Turned to the Dark Side and killed before he reached 30 I think.

    Ben Skywalker might be about 10 years old now. I have the books but haven't kept up for the moment.

    If they brought Ben up to being closer to mid-teens or his 20's, Luke Skywalker is now as OLD as Obi-Wan Kenobi was in ANH!

    He probably walks around repeating himself as he "hasn't heard that name, in a long time....a long time."

    Actually, I somehow picture Luke as a Jedi Master to be more like Qui-Gon, but a bit more emotional and happy at times (I guess until his wife was killed).
    Like I said, I need to catch up on the books.
    BAD Pts Need: R5-C7 lf leg (x2), , R4-P44 right leg BAD Pts Offered For Trade: PM me - I have lots of parts now including BG-J38!. New Kyle Katarn is also available.

  9. #39
    It might be interesting to set a series between the Jedi Academy and the NJO following around all three Solo children. I'm just not sure the kids will watch. They would have to rely heavily on Luke, Leia, and Han in the first few episodes to "catch" children. Premiering it after Clone Wars would help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tycho View Post
    Asajj Ventress, Cad Bane, Hondo Onokah, and I dare say Aurra Sing isn't exactly a movie character. Now Quinlan Vos is coming...
    Those aren't exactly major characters. Heck, Bane has been in more episodes than Ventress, Grevious, and Dooku combined. Kids don't watch shows for the villians, but it helps if the bad guys are cool. Kids show need a familiar core of Heroes, and Anakin, Obi-Wan, Cody, Yoda, and Mace are a solid core with the addition of Ashoka and Rex. For your list, the following core figures are available:

    1) During the Trilogy - Han, Leia, Luke, Chewie. The best group and a stable in the list. however time line makes any series small. And lets face it, Lucas has jumped back and fourth along the line of continuality with the Prequals, would we really want him to F-up our beloved OT?

    2) Shadows of the Empire - Luke, Leia, Lando, Chewie, Dash. Has to be done as a movie.

    3) Rogue Squadron - Wedge, Tycho, Gavin, Corran, Wes. I would love to see this series, but I don't think it would sell to kids, especially with so many unknowns as core characters.

    4) Dark Empire - Han, Luke, Leia, and Chewie. Eh, does anyone want the Emperor to return?

    5) Heir to the Empire - Han, Luke, Leia, and Chewie. Once again, has to be done as a movie.

    6) Jedi Academy Era - Luke, Kyp, Corran, Solo kids. This era is the sole era where there is no common enemy. Star Wars without the Empire or Vong or New Empire, really doesn't work. Unless the series was just about the Solo kids.

    7) New Jedi Order - Luke, Leia, Han, Lando, Solo kids. Man would this be a fun series to watch. Especially when the Imperial Remenant joins them. I honestly think this is the one series that would work as it mimics the Clone Wars MO. The only problem would be if children would watch a series in which the good guys lose a majority of the time, especially early.

    8) Legacy - Luke, Leia, Han, Jaina. You can't really do Legacy without doing one of the previous two series. No one would understand the relationship between Jacen and Jaina, and how Jacen became evil.
    Nowhere in your incoherent ramblings did you come anywhere close to the answer. Thanks to you, everyone in this room is now stupider having heard you. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul. -Billy Madison-

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