Comic-Con 2011 SSG Get Together

[El Chuxter]

Bikerscout, you know what's sad? You just made me realize that the Amy Winehouse story got more coverage and has lasted longer than the homegrown terrorism in Norway, that day's OTHER big story.

Man, that is sad. Especially since, barring some heavy-duty treatment that didn't appear to be in the works, Winehouse was pretty much as good as dead anyway.

FB, I didn't get flagged for fraud, but it did take over a week for the transaction to process. A minor complaint, but the HTS flyer said all prices included tax. Zarana was $14 and the Skystriker $54, IIRC. So why was the total $70.01? I know it's a minor issue to complain about one penny of sales tax, but I'm sure someone did at some point.

[Maradona]

Anybody here make it to the SDCC 2012 badge preorder kiosk this year? I had forgotten all about them, am curious what the dealio is there.

I did. My lady friend and I were in line from before 6AM until past noon on Thursday. When the tickets finally went on sale, it was in a large room with a monitor showing the percentage of tickets sold for each ticket category (4 day w/preview night, 4 day, individual days). By the time we purchased our 4 day with preview nights, 50% of them were sold out. How that is possible, I can only speculate. I missed the Captain America screening that morning to secure next year's passes. Ultimately, that seemed like a fair trade, since we saw the film two days later. Was a preview night sell out announced like it was last year?

[bikerscout]

chuxter -- I forget how much the skystriker was, but all 3.75" Joes this year were $16 (tax included). That would explain your $70 bill

[El Chuxter]

I was referring to the one penny over. All their prices on the price sheet said they included tax and were round numbers. But clearly this wasn't the case.

[JediTricks]

I did. My lady friend and I were in line from before 6AM until past noon on Thursday. When the tickets finally went on sale, it was in a large room with a monitor showing the percentage of tickets sold for each ticket category (4 day w/preview night, 4 day, individual days). By the time we purchased our 4 day with preview nights, 50% of them were sold out. How that is possible, I can only speculate. I missed the Captain America screening that morning to secure next year's passes. Ultimately, that seemed like a fair trade, since we saw the film two days later. Was a preview night sell out announced like it was last year?

Well, as nasty as that sounds, at least you got your passes on day 1, I expected a tale like the HasbroToyShop nonsense.

The percentages should have been showing for that day's allotment only, or perhaps they combined the percentages for all 4 days. But they're holding back passes for online in every category, so I wouldn't be surprised if the preview night tix allotment was sold through while you were there, that the 50% number was showing that all of their in-location allotment was gone already in just 1 day. They really need to figure out how to express what this all means in a clearer fashion, I am still confounded by the "SDCC ID" aspect, and am grateful more than ever that I don't have to go through that nonsense.

[Maradona]

Well, as nasty as that sounds, at least you got your passes on day 1, I expected a tale like the HasbroToyShop nonsense.

The percentages should have been showing for that day's allotment only, or perhaps they combined the percentages for all 4 days. But they're holding back passes for online in every category, so I wouldn't be surprised if the preview night tix allotment was sold through while you were there, that the 50% number was showing that all of their in-location allotment was gone already in just 1 day. They really need to figure out how to express what this all means in a clearer fashion, I am still confounded by the "SDCC ID" aspect, and am grateful more than ever that I don't have to go through that nonsense.

Among the problems at SDCC is that they oversell tickets. I asked an attendant, for fun obviously, if they'd consider charging double the price but only let in half the people that way they stay even in income, but alleviate the majority of the turmoil. She just laughed. Ultimately, they nearly doubled the price while not reducing the entrants. The irony is that SDCC claims to be a non-profit, if I'm not mistaken.

[JediTricks]

SDCC is indeed a non-profit, its goal is merely to put on the convention itself, no greater goal than that (though they funnel funds to APE and WonderCon from it, I believe).

The con is at a quandary, it can't really reduce the number of people, they are maxxing out only because the fire marshal won't allow them to have more people in the rooms they have, so every year they leverage a few more rooms on the 20s-30s side (above Hall H and the south half of the convention center) to get a few more thousand people past those regulations; but if they WERE somehow to reduce the number of people going to the show, they'd have no way to fund the show because the big money exhibitors and panels wouldn't show up or would demand to pay less - they want as many eyes as possible on their exhibits and panels, every set of eyes is (in theory) pre-focused marketing, the best kind of market, the kind that already wants to buy into what you're selling; and it seems they can't charge much more for booths in the exhibit hall because the more they charge, the worse the booth will be, and the worse the booths are, the less folks will show up next year.

I'm not entirely surprised they raised the price on badges, at $40 a day that's what a lot of much smaller conventions are going for lately, the price of energy and manpower has gone way up the last few years. Plus, Comic-Con supplies fresh drinking water in every panel room from Sparklets, that's lots of water jugs and cups to pay for which they recoup no funds.

That said, the convention is trying to leverage their drawing power against the city of San Diego, trying to get them to build even MORE convention center (it was because of SDCC that the convention center has Halls D through H now) and to keep parking and lodging gouging down (non-prepaid parking this year was indeed slightly cheaper than '09 and '10). Just found out that, in consideration of a proposed expansion of 33% to the current convention center, the city has acquired 6 more acres of bayfront land to expand onto, should they figure out a way to pay for said expansion. My guess is they bought the dead lawnspace between the Bayfront Hilton and the convention center, or they bought the smattering of small business and parking lots on the bay side of the convention center (though I can't imagine that being the 6 acres, since it's a tiny peninsula and likely not able to support the weight of a large building). 33% expansion of the existing con space would roughly another hall D through H and everything upstairs of it (and half the Sails perhaps, though hopefully they won't goof this time and make an outdoor space that nobody wants to rent), so that would be a significant improvement to the crowding problem. However, they aren't really sure how the 3/4 of a billion dollars is going to get paid for.

San Diego Convention Center currently has 819,815 square feet of "people space", space for exhibits and panels, making it the 24th largest convention center space in North America. Its maximum capacity is stated at 125,000, yet last year Comic-Con was 130,000 and I believe this year it was 5k more, through creative use of the 2 local bayfront hotels, the public use of some additional upstairs rooms from years previous, and expanded use of the exterior space for lines for larger panels such as Hall H and Ballroom 20 and even smaller ones on the 6 and 7 rooms.

It looks like SDCC and CES tied for most attended conventions in 2010 with 130,000 each. However, unlike San Diego, CES is held in Las Vegas where they already have another 1.1 million square feet of exhibit space, so CES has room to expand. Las Vegas actually has 2 convention spaces larger than SDCC, their convention center is the 3rd largest in North America, but there's also the Sands Expo Center that's around 300,000 square feet larger than the SDCC (pardon my interchange of SDCC for Comic-Con and the convention center, but in this case they are hopefully clear by context and essentially saying the same thing anyway). Los Angeles, Anaheim, Long Beach, all of them are pretty much stuck around the size of the existing SD Convention Center (LACC seems to be about 100k square feet larger, but more of their display space is exhibition space, they have a bit less space for panels). So really, were Comic-Con to move, the only viable choices to move to on the west coast are both in Las Vegas. July. Las Vegas. No.

[Maradona]

I love San Diego. I've been going there for this convention since 1994 and would ideally love to continue going. I call it my annual pilgrimage. I hesitate to guarantee, though, that SDCC will remain there. The city can't come up with funds to keep the Chargers, apparently, as they seem to be relocating back to Los Angeles at the now approved Farmers' Field super stadium to be built adjacent the Staples/Convention Centers. If the City of San Diego cannot keep a sports franchise that brings in revenue for several months out of the year, I fail to see them prioritizing a convention hall's expansion for a five day event during a troubling economic period.

So where does SDCC go? Las Vegas seems too distracting for it apart from the heat, Anaheim doesn't impress me as being able to sustain such a show, which I doubt Disney want in direct proximity to their own D23 Expo, and I doubt the convention will move any further east. Los Angeles, though I am not a huge fan of our convention center's location, has a substantial amount growing for it. The Farmers' Field schematics look amazing and will likely draw in many retail/food businesses to the area. Public transportation to that area has really improved. The metro stops right there and people can get there from LAX, Long Beach, Hollywood, the SF Valley, and now the Pasadena and foothill communities, along with East LA/Monterey Park. That gives a ton more hotel availability to the show, since public transportation allows it not to have to be so localized, though downtown does have several hotels. LA Live has several restaurants, with more places opening rather regularly. Comic Con could hold their Hall H type panels within the Staples Center or Nokia Theater, if necessary, where capacity is near 20,000 in one and about 8,000 in the other. There aren't really any sporting events held at Staples over the summer, so no scheduling conflicts would arise. I've gone to a few conventions at LACC and I must say they run well. CIV was excellent, spacious for just about everything I can think of. Anime Expo runs smoothly, too. I went to a Wizard World there years ago and I've gone to an E3, each one works. But beyond that, what leads me to believe that SDCC will move there is the shifting focus of the event. As you point out, JT, the show is now more about marketing than it ever was and, increasingly, about television/film marketing specifically, for which Los Angeles is the capital city. The studios dictate, it seems, the broadening appeal of the event and, as you also mention, SDCC shows no signs of pulling the focus back to its core attraction - comics. I can find, therefore, no better option for the organizers, should they decide to move, than to bring the show to LA. Though I'd save on hotel and transportation costs (I'm literally a short metro ride away), I don't relish the show moving away from San Diego. But I'd wager if it does come, the first year's rise in attendance, widening of publicity, and new standard of studio participation will make the organizers wonder why they waited so long to pull the trigger.

I'm not a parent or husband, so this analogy comes from pure speculation, but if my household grew to where the number of my children could no longer fit into my car, I doubt I'd find much support for continuing to stuff them in the trunk of my beloved Altima just because I refuse to give the car up. Maybe I could afford to put in a sun roof or trick out the interior to squeeze in another car seat, but the attachment to my vehicle, at that point, would be sentimental, not practical.

[El Chuxter]

I disagree on LA. A lot of people who travel to Comic-Con do so because San Diego is a nice tourist spot. LA is (nothing personal to those of you who live there) a smelly parking lot, and this extends to the surrounding cities for miles in all directions. I'd be less likely to go to a convention there.

But I'd LOVE for the movie crap to split off from Comic-Con and move to LA, leaving an actual comic convention.

The Chargers, as I understand it, demanded that Qualcomm Stadium be redone to be a better football stadium, making it useless to the Padres, who had to move downtown. Then they started making more demands. It seems a lot like the Charlotte/Hornets situation, where a team is demanding more concessions from the city than the revenue they bring in justifies.

[JediTricks]

I can't see CCI (Comic Con International) going anywhere like LA or Anaheim or Long Beach. For one thing, none of them have the facilities to handle it any better than the SD convention center right now. Anaheim is currently running the west coast version of Wizard World LA that's been renamed "Anaheim Comic Con" and it's not much (WWLA got renamed because it tanked in '09). Anaheim is probably the only area that could afford to rebuild to a larger convention center and likely the only one to get the land to do so, LA doesn't have any more room to build onto, and Long Beach CC is surrounded by beach, can't expand that way. But nobody wants Anaheim for this, it's just all wrong in so many ways (although that'd be great for me, I have free Disneyland parking and the convention center is across the street from the resort). San Fran already has WonderCon and APE, there's no reason to put CCI there as well. So the only really viable place to move to is Las Vegas, and again, JULY - LAS VEGAS - NO! But IMO, that's CCI's best card to play if they want to really leverage against San Diego's request to front some scratch for the expansion - Anaheim was a good gambit when nobody thought about it, but where are people going to eat, to spend their money by the convention center? Everything's tailored around getting people into Disneyland, not taking cabs and going to nightclubs and restaurants the way SD is.

LA CC is a decent facility, but it's really too mired in the paradoxical nature of downtown - lots of confusing, 1-way streets, not enough parking, lodging is upscale or far or dangerous (or all 3), very poor and confusing public transit options, freeways are jammed up in that area all the time. And it's not big enough, there's no getting around the fact that it's not significantly larger than SD Con Center as it is. So where's the benefit? San Diego downtown is nice, compact, centralized, has a happening nightlife, fairly clean and safe - all of which are the opposite of LA downtown.

The idea of using Staples Center or the Nokia is not a bad idea, both are substantially larger than Hall H's 6,000 people (down from last year's 6,500, apparently the eye-stab incident caused them to require a change in the layout and security barriers at the stage). I don't think the price of the Staples center will be realistic for the con though. The Nokia seems more like it, although knowing CCI they won't want to rent it on Sundays again (this year was the first year Hall H was rented on a Sunday for panels). Also, Staples Center and Nokia Theatre aren't owned by the LACC, which would make renting more difficult since it'll be across 2 contracts and will require 2 different staffs to coordinate.

"The metro stops right there", which would mean more if the metro went anywhere good from there. LA light rail still sucks and each rider costs the government $20 in subsidies whereas the horrible buses we have ruining our roads only cost $2 a rider subsidy, I believe. To be fair though, they're just about finished with the Expo Line light rail here in West LA, phase 1 ends at La Cienega & Jefferson, gonna be running in a couple months.

But ultimately, I can't see Comic-Con working here in LA on the scale it does in SD no matter what, LA is simply too expensive, inconvenient, dangerous, and generally unappealing to draw the way SDCC does. San Diego seems to appreciate how important CCI is to their region, LA's residents and government never would because LA has so much more going on (I was born here, but even I can admit LA is a tad overhyped on itself).

I disagree with what Chux is saying about LA though, there's nowhere to park and it doesn't smell that bad. But seriously, the city is massive and incredibly diverse, which means finding the parts that speak to you, in that way it's somewhat intimate, the city doesn't find you, you have to find it or even make it. You can take part in a huge community, walk a couple miles, and find an entirely new experience that has no connection to what you knew minutes before. In Hollywood, you can actually find an intersection with mansions on one side of the street and crack houses on the other, and it's up to you to decide if that works for you, either OR both. Want arts? We have fine arts, popular arts, underground arts, but you have to find it. Want sports? In LA, you can surf in the morning and snowboard in the evening.


BTW, there seems to be some misconception about Comic-Con. Comic-Con was NEVER about "only comics", from its inception it was always meant to be a diverse interest convention, just stuff that comic fans might be into, like the SCA. Since then, comic fans have gotten into: video games, tv, movies, action figures, prop replicas, cartoons, fine art, general pop culture, costuming, LARP, literary publication, and so on. If you take that stuff out of the convention, you're left with a tiny comic book convention with maybe 7,000 attendees and local comic businesses, because those who are casual fans of comics aren't hardcore fans, they might go out of their way to see all the stuff at SDCC, but they wouldn't be if it was only Jim Shooter sitting on a dais explaining stuff that happened 30 years ago - don't get me wrong, Jim Shooter is someone I dig, his is the only industry blog I read, but the reality is that he's not going to fill a 6,000 person room, or probably even a 600 person room.

The studios like Comic-Con because it's pre-targeted marketing with a group proven especially passionate about spreading the word. They are now linked, you want interest in the comic industry to continue? You need to cater to casual consumers so that as the older generation loses interest or dies off, you have someone else coming in to fill that space, otherwise in 15 years SDCC becomes about as vital as a buggy-whip convention.