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  1. #81
    I'll admit, there are nice areas of LA. The whole area from roughly Pomona/Anaheim west, though, I can't help but think of as "standstill traffic and nothing else," and the areas adjacent to the freeways always have a diesel stench to them because of the heavy usage.

    As for Comic-Con being about comics, I know it never was 100%. Still, there's a world of difference between "we're going to show footage from this film called Star Wars that we think comic fans might like" and "check out the latest from Glee!"

  2. #82
    Yes, Glee showing up at SDCC was bad. Like, even Twilight pretends to be about vampires, but what's the connection for Glee? Nothing except that it has fans who are obsessive - is that enough to justify getting a notable Comic-Con presence? Then again, it's pretty narrow-sighted of us to say that there's no crossover interest just because we personally don't see it, and unlike Toilight, at least Glee didn't really flood the con or ruin anything.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "In Brooklyn, a castle, is where dwell I"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  3. #83
    Even if there is a crossover connection, is it really appropriate at Comic-Con? I know it's a grey area, but why not say "Some comic fans read romance novels, so here's the romance novel section of the floor." You can come up with some sort of crossover between any two interests you can think of.

    I didn't mean to single out Glee per se, and am not dissing it (though I personally don't care for it), but it's definitely one that makes no sense at a convention that started with comics and has expanded to include sci-fi, toys, games, and related movies and shows.

  4. #84
    When you and I were younger, the stuff we were into was considered too losery to be acceptable to mainstream society. Now almost every other summer movie is based on a comic book, video games and comic characters are multi-generational in appeal, and Comic-Con is the largest convention in the country for celebrating that stuff.

    There already are romance novel publishers with booths at the convention, there have been I think 1 or 2 since I've been going the last 5 years.

    Comic-Con started out comics, sci-fi, fantasy, and similar diverse interests, not JUST comics, so to claim that it expanded into those areas is misleading. I'm just trying to point out that while we may not like how these things affect the convention, it would be petty and hypocritical to turn others away because their geek interests aren't exactly aligned with our geek interests. I don't really see the point of having Glee there or Twilight, and I don't always like it, but I cannot claim they "shouldn't" be there. Besides, the market for these things will bear what it will bear, if the Glee fans don't make it worth the studios' while to spend the money to do that stuff at SDCC, they won't do it again the year after.

    ... But it seems clear that, in this case, there was sufficient crossover interest to warrant more of that one. And if it was that popular, it wasn't fans of ONLY Glee, they were able to fill Hall H with people who bought badges MONTHS in advance and got lodging or parking for the event, there's no way those were fans who had NOTHING in common with us, they were already going to SDCC before the Glee panel was announced. If you look at it that way, then basically what we're saying is "we don't think things that GIRLS like should be allowed at Comic-Con!" which is pretty silly, we're not the Lil Rascals and we don't need to put the "no gurls alowed!" sign up on the doorway, Comic-Con is no longer the He-Man Women-Hater's Club.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "In Brooklyn, a castle, is where dwell I"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  5. #85
    Toilight. <----that is friggin great!!!! I hate anything that has to do with it. So glad they put their panel early Thurs. and not late Sat or Sun. Can't imagine the debacle for Hall H if they did the latter. Would've employed a steamroller to squash the toilight idiots.

    Also, can't stand Glee. (And wound up working for the premiere in Westwood 2 wknds ago). There were fans singing in the parking lot @ 4am. Ultra ultra ultra annoying. You wouldn't believe. Arrrrggghhh. My ears still hurt. Blech

  6. #86
    If anyone wants to see what Comic Con used to be like, I recommend Wonder Con up in San Francisco. It's much smaller and more comic centered. That SDCC was not ever predominantly about comics is a deeply flawed sentiment. The assertion that anything is ever completely about one thing is also an absolute mistake. Comics were the unifying idea connecting and causing the show, hence the term Comic Con. As comics developed from a variety of sources, not the least of which was science/fantasy fiction, they've traditionally had a presence among the comic convention world. For those that have not attended SDCC in the pre-Hall H era, let me tell you that comics were the central focus of the show, not marketing. People went there and shopped for comics and stuff related to them. Halls A-D were nearly all vendors selling products, 75-90% of which were comics, and there were no Halls E-H. This was before the action figure collector period of the past dozen or so years, which has had an equally adverse effect to the show, just try walking the aisles anywhere near Hasbro or Mattel, for example. This was also before eBay, where people seemingly HAD to go to SDCC to find certain items. People don't have to wait until SDCC as much anymore if they want to buy something rare. That has reduced the vendor pool to some extent, I think, just as much as CCI selling the space to studios, changing the culture of the show from being a sort of ultimate geek flea market to being the ultimate place to market to geeks (to which I proudly profess an allegiance).

    In 1994, Image had the biggest booth set up and they essentially invented the "big event" booth the year before that. Marvel was the first to follow suit the next year, with DC coming up about a year later. There were ZERO studio booths, ZERO toy company booths - the only people marketing were comics companies, and even they weren't very heavy handed with it. Do I wish this model was still the case? Am I against change? No. I don't mind studios having a presence within practical reason and I like to buy and see toys. Marketing is the chosen backbone of the event now and, I'll argue, its central focus. CCI's people don't seem to mind either, quite to the contrary. I just get upset that CCI is catering more to the studios than it ever did to comics. The mecca of comics is New York, yet CCI never considered moving the event there to facilitate greater participation by that industry. Now, CCI does cater to an industry and it is not comics, which is why I think that in the long term CCI's eventual destination is Los Angeles. I desperately hope it does not come here. But its expansion and current focus seem to indicate that direction.

    I'm not a fan, but I can deal with Glee and Twilight as long as there is enough space for competing fan bases not to have to fight for space. What bothers me about the show is the consistent overcrowding of the past several years, the organizers failing to organize the vending of exclusives (the way Celebration IV did it and Mattel does it are models CCI should study), and that there has been no successful, let alone recognizable, attempt to alleviate this.

  7. #87
    Well said maradona.

    The formula for comic-con should be 70% comics and the other 30% toys/collectibles, games, movies, & tv. In that descending order. TV had an especially big presence this year since some studios cut back their movie panels and/or didn't even show up. A real POS deal that Marvel is saving their panel for the overpriced (& nearly worthless unless u like Disney) D23 Expo.

  8. #88
    Nobody here claimed that SDCC was never predominately about comics. What I said was that it was never ONLY about comics, that it was always meant to include diverse interests.

    This year, the 12 largest booths at Comic-Con were (in order):
    1) DC Comics,
    2) Sideshow Collectibles,
    3) Hasbro (not including HTS),
    4t) Marvel Comics (tied with...),
    4t) Dark Horse Comics,
    6) Mattel (not including Mattel shop),
    7t) Capcom (tied with...),
    7t) HasbroToyShop (tied with...),
    7t) LEGO (tied with...),
    7t) Square Enix (tied with...),
    7t) Warner Bros.
    12) Image Comics

    That does not count the Lucasfilm pavilion, which is technically tied as the largest booth at the con, and is the only booth with an aisle break (which I am factoring out, otherwise it is THE largest booth), but I'm not counting it because it is made up of several smaller exhibitors. Also, if you were to count HTS and Hasbro together as 1 "booth experience" booth, then Hasbro would be the largest booth at the con by a significant margin, 33% bigger than the DC booth.

    In that list, we have 4 comics companies, 3 toy companies, 2 video game companies, 1 collectibles company, 1 studio, and 1 toy company's store.

    In terms of panels, I'll use Thursday as my sample, so Thursday for regular "day" panels (panels that start between 10am and 6:45pm), there were a total of 144 panels, and of those, 71 of them were STRICTLY comic book panels - that is to say, panels about comic books only, not comic book-based movies or comic book-based video games or other media created by primarily-comic book authors. So, half of the panels were about comic books. Also, after 7pm, there were another 5 comic book panels.

    So the idea that comics aren't still the central focus to Comic Con is a bit unrealistic IMO.

    Now, if you look at the SDCC AUDIENCES, who is going to these things, that is a different story. In general, the comics panels are in rooms that are notably smaller than the non-comic ones. I personally sat through a comics panel in a room that seated over 400, and they couldn't even fill half that room.

    So ultimately, I stand by my assessment that the diverse audience for Comic Con is "the problem", not the studios.


    The mecca of comics is New York, yet CCI never considered moving the event there to facilitate greater participation by that industry.
    That would defeat the point of Comic-Con, to have a comic-fan convention on the west coast. Shel Dorf had already run a similar con specializing in comics, fantasy, and sci-fi in Detroit a few years prior, and when he moved to San Diego he wanted to create a similar con out here.

    BTW, Celebration IV's store worked great for buyers, but was a disaster for the vendor. Expectation far outpaced interest, to the point where at the last minute they ended up giving away one of the exclusive Hasbro figures with Sunday ticket purchases, yet still had pallets of product left over.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "In Brooklyn, a castle, is where dwell I"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by JediTricks View Post

    BTW, Celebration IV's store worked great for buyers, but was a disaster for the vendor. Expectation far outpaced interest, to the point where at the last minute they ended up giving away one of the exclusive Hasbro figures with Sunday ticket purchases, yet still had pallets of product left over.
    A huge. separate, amply stocked and service room dedicated to purchasing exclusive items during CIV "worked great" for this buyer. The vendors have to sort out what they decide to bring. There was no frantic pushing, no overwhelmed security, no lack of fair access. It was first come, first serve as opposed to whoever snuck into the exhibit hall early was allowed into exclusive lines and served before the opening of the show. Have this room exist outside the exhibit hall the way Mattel has shown is viable and SDCC would reduce tons of traffic and head aches in the exhibit hall and they could sell more space.

    Your statistics about comics panels and booth sizes defends the point that comics are no longer the central focus of the Comic Con audience, which is exactly my assertion - only a third of the larger booths are comics based. Your earlier point about marketing should stand. Comic Con is Entertainment Marketing Con (guest starring comics in rooms 1-4, featuring Mark Evanier hosting 5 panels - who btw is a totally cool and well-versed guy to talk to). I remember when those panels used to be substantially more full. I've gone to several Hernandez Bros. panels over the years and they've gotten decent showings. Typically, though, comics panels are overshadowed by the mania of Hall H, which I'd be lying to claim I don't attend. This year, though, I only went for the Kevin Smith panel, but since we got there early we saw the Snow White and Oz panels. Regardless, comics are no longer the unifying idea informing the attendance to the show. I wonder how long before TMZ has a booth...

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