Transformers 4

[Tycho]

I really like what JediTricks said which I'll quote below.

If I were making a new Transformers story, here are elements I'd need:
- actual story scenes on Cybertron, displaying the value of the war waged between robots who use disguise as a chief weapon;
- scenes of the Autobots and Decepticons coming to Earth to mine its energy resources;
- a diverse cast of Autobots with unique talents and personalities, but a clear focus on the main characters, not unlike how the original Trek movies worked;
- Optimus Prime not being a humorless, cliche-spewing, murderer;
- A reason for the Autobots to value the humans, even need their help (whether it's intel, repairs, scouting, I can think of too many reasons) but without alerting the greater population or the governments;
- Megatron as a smarter villain with the ability to make some damned sense to his somewhat diverse troops;
- Soundwave as a seemingly-mindless follower of Megatron with his own minions;
- Starscream as a treacherous schemer, morals-discarded scientist who might find a kindred scheming human to work with, and leader of the Seekers;
- if possible, Devastator, Dinobots, Combaticons, the REAL Jetfire, Insecticons;
- a reason for the robots to value disguise on Earth and to not just take over (STARSCREAM: This planet is ripe for the picking, Megatron! We should crush these puny things under our boots and take what is rightfully ours so that we can defeat the Autobots!
MEGATRON: Foolish Starscream, ever greedy and short-sighted, it is that which makes you unfit to lead. There are billions of these humans on this planet and just a handful of us, they have mastered nuclear weaponry, if they were pushed they could destroy us in a single press of a button. Besides, if we kill them, who will continue harnessing this planet's vast resources so that we can swoop in and plunder it?)
- probably an ending that hints at the spacebridge bringing the story back and forth between Cybertron and Earth (perhaps also the lost Cybertronian colonies).

I know from G1 that Starscream was a scientist (with JetFire) but I'd like to learn more about what made him so militant that he could command the Seekers. Kind of like the backstory to Cobra Commander I'd guess. But I'd like to see it (as a flashback or aside in the movie).

That dialogue with Starscream and Megatron is excellent. Probably from the show, or JT is holding out on us.

[JediTricks]

I was a bit unclear: I meant that it appears that post-war stories can be told in Transformers. You're right that these two arcs would not work for a movie, but, if they can come up with two distinct storylines to run simultaneously, there must be other stories without the "Autobots wage their battle to destroy the evil forces of the Decepticons" angle.

I realize that, this being Michael Bay, we should aim lower than normal.

Maybe Will Smith can play a villain who uses Cybertronian technology to become Circuit Breaker and terrorize the Autobots?

Oh man, I'm super sorry I missed that part about you not having finished the previous comics yet and posting spoilers!

Anyway, post-war stories could be told by a DIFFERENT director, but Bay doesn't deal in nuance, it's always clear-cut good guys and bad guys for him. If it weren't Decepticons, it'd be a nearly identical enemy, not even a different KIND of life-form. "Hey robots, welcome to Earf!" Will Smith does not make a convincing a sexy blond lady, so naturally that'd be perfect casting. Well, Martin Lawrence anyway, they couldn't afford Will Smith. Anyway, obviously you couldn't have Circuit Breaker in a TF movie because she's owned by Marvel.

I'm not sure a movie could tell a compelling story about the Autobots after the defeat of the Decepticons, there's not enough time to get into the character nuances needed to drive that kind of drama, and there's no real reason to be a TRANSFORMER in a universe where you're not hiding from an enemy.

I know from G1 that Starscream was a scientist (with JetFire) but I'd like to learn more about what made him so militant that he could command the Seekers. Kind of like the backstory to Cobra Commander I'd guess. But I'd like to see it (as a flashback or aside in the movie).

Be careful, often times with characters we really love, their charm is in their mystery and deadline-pressed writers cannot flesh out their backstories in a convincing manner, so they end up mangled. I prefer it when the character's backstory is slowly doled out over little pieces of dialogue and action throughout the run of the overall story.

Then again, the very idea of the Decepticons even having scientists could be interesting, it breathes nuance (I know Starscream wasn't a Decepticon when he was a scientist with Jetfire) into a race. Like a Klingon doctor, there's no glory and yet someone's gotta do it. Even Al Qaeda probably has scientists, so why not Decepticons? An organization who believes it is in the right would likely need to employ more than just warriors if they wanted to continue as an organization beyond the next day's battle. Gotta have folks who rebuild the injured, who come up with new technologies, who sweep the floors, who find the places to hide giant evil bases.

That dialogue with Starscream and Megatron is excellent. Probably from the show, or JT is holding out on us.

Thanks. No, I wrote that off top of my head, off the cuff trying to harness a style that balanced cinematic needs, show styling, and Marvel comic thinking.

[El Chuxter]

No problem on the spoilers, JT. I know the broad strokes already (it's really tough to be completely spoiler-free and wait for the paperbacks--though I've been very lucky on the subject of the new Cobra Commander, aside from IDW themselves spelling out that it's not Bludd or the Baroness), and you didn't really go into detail.

Keep in mind that Starscream was only a scientist in the original cartoon. He's also been a senate guard, possibly a low-ranking senator, and, well, I don't think Marvel ever gave him a backstory (unless it was in a UK comic, which wouldn't surprise me since he was one of Furman's pet characters).

Personally, I'd go with a crazy combination of several continuities--Bludgeon, Thunderwing, Zarak (technically Scorponok, though they already used the name), Cyclonus, and a few others acting as an advance force for Galvatron, a pre-War Transformer who's been trapped in the Dead Universe until recently. Only it turns out that Galvatron, despite his methods, actually wants to unite Transformerdom to fight the dark god, Unicron. And, of course, Unicron's Quintesson legions. Transformers from various worlds (including the Junkions and some of the TF worlds from the RiD continuity) unite, but aren't enough. Until they figure out that the Quintessons' subjects, the Sharkticons, are Transformers, too.

Yeah, way too subtle for Bay, and I don't even think it's an especially good idea. Just one I came up with on the fly to prove it could be done with another director.

[DarthQuack]

Can we get Dr. Arkeville??

[El Chuxter]

If he didn't have some role in one of the previous movies, I'd say Malkovich would be a killer Arkeville. If someone talented were directing, I'd say Alan Rickman.

[JediTricks]

No problem on the spoilers, JT. I know the broad strokes already (it's really tough to be completely spoiler-free and wait for the paperbacks--though I've been very lucky on the subject of the new Cobra Commander, aside from IDW themselves spelling out that it's not Bludd or the Baroness), and you didn't really go into detail.

Ok, good to know I didn't totally ruin it for you. I see what you mean waiting for the trades, I have Last Stand of the Wreckers coming from Amazon next week, trying to avoid the spoilers there but it's been like a year and a half since that story came out, can't miss everything.

Keep in mind that Starscream was only a scientist in the original cartoon. He's also been a senate guard, possibly a low-ranking senator, and, well, I don't think Marvel ever gave him a backstory (unless it was in a UK comic, which wouldn't surprise me since he was one of Furman's pet characters).

You're a snob when it comes to TF cartoon vs comics. GI Joe too, right?

I think you're right that the comics gave him no backstory, and yes Furman gave him UK backstory where he was a leader of a city of pre-Decepticons who got defeated and brought together under Megatron's lead, but doesn't contradict him being a scientist as well.

Personally, I'd go with a crazy combination of several continuities--Bludgeon, Thunderwing, Zarak (technically Scorponok, though they already used the name), Cyclonus, and a few others acting as an advance force for Galvatron, a pre-War Transformer who's been trapped in the Dead Universe until recently. Only it turns out that Galvatron, despite his methods, actually wants to unite Transformerdom to fight the dark god, Unicron. And, of course, Unicron's Quintesson legions. Transformers from various worlds (including the Junkions and some of the TF worlds from the RiD continuity) unite, but aren't enough. Until they figure out that the Quintessons' subjects, the Sharkticons, are Transformers, too.

Yeah, way too subtle for Bay, and I don't even think it's an especially good idea. Just one I came up with on the fly to prove it could be done with another director.

Zarak as Scorponok instead of his Nebulon headmaster? Scorponok seems like a difficult concept to pull off as a robot in disguise, are you just throwing out the disguise aspect of the characters and using their transformations for weapons and transport?

Interesting concept, I think it's too complex for a 2-hour movie (or a 3-hour movie in the case of Bay, how can a guy telling such simple stories take so damned long to tell them?!? I think it's just all the slo-mo), that's the sort of thing the comics are good at doing, decompressing a story to give all the nuances across multiple issues.

You're using the Sharkticons as weapons against the heralds of Galvatron? That's an... interesting choice. Who controls them, and how?

Can we get Dr. Arkeville??

If he didn't have some role in one of the previous movies, I'd say Malkovich would be a killer Arkeville. If someone talented were directing, I'd say Alan Rickman.

On the nose a little bit, I'd say! Ooh, what about Rainn Wilson? He'd be great, he plays big and loud.

Dwight Schrute + Starscream = Awesome

[Darth Metalmute]

My guess is here is where we get the Unicron trilogy. I ready somewhere that humans would still be in the picture so a Cybertron movie series is technically out. Unicron probably comes around and resurrects all the major Decepticons.

I do hope that if they bring in the Dinobots that Grimlock gets the G1 voice treatment.

[El Chuxter]

I tossed out the name Zarak because there was a drone (?) by the name Scorponok. He'd be Scorponok, just with a different name.

When I was thinking of that, I was thinking of the Sharkticons as just animalistic Transformers, not directly controlled. Maybe subjugated by the Quintessons. I was trying to base Galvatron more on the IDW version, where he's sort of an anti-hero (at least so far), not Megatron, not a subject of Unicron.

I've been re-reading the old comics in the reprint editions from IDW, as well as re-watching the old shows on The Hub. There's a real reason I'm a comic snob. The 'toons weren't bad, but they didn't put a lot of emphasis on consistency and continuity. (The TF comic had some issues with that, too, but kept things more or less going in a linear fashion.)

[Tycho]

Now I figured out what to do about the Michael Bay movies:

1) They do not reboot the first 3. They count.
2) Megatron, Starscream, Soundwave, Shockwave die quite permanently in Chicago (as does Sentinel Prime) and "Combaticons" Brawl, Vortex (Blackout, Grindor), and Onslaught (close enough to Megatron's TF3 Alt form).

So how do we make an interesting movie without the above characters? Well we can. We have the characters.

First - don't make this a sequel. Make it take place DURING ROTF or DOTM.

Second - have it be a mission that must be completed for Optimus Prime or Megatron, or mission(S) for both that must be achieved to achieve the results of the established movies.

Third - the cast:

Decepticons:

a) Galvatron - he is an entirely separate character from Megatron and has his own ambitions to be The Fallen's No. 2 and then take over. His alt-mode could be something Cybertronian and terrifying.

b) Cyclonus - Galvatron's first lieutenant and air commander - he is in his G1 character but turns into an F-18 Hornet to be realistic to an earth disguise. His personality and loyalty to Galvatron, and perhaps The Fallen is as it would be were he the G1.5 character.

c) Scourge / the Sweeps - they are sea and land operable hovercraft, current military look

d) Blitzwing - a triple changer that can join Cyclonus on air attacks

e) Astrotrain - just like his G1 form. His transformation is incredible to get the length for the locomotive with maybe an extra cargo car.

f) Swindle - need a small Decepticon. There won't be other Combaticons perhaps. Or there will be and Astrotrain will form Bruticus with them (don't need or might be able to go with 2 space shuttles, but the size dictates that he will be the main body of Bruticus instead of Onslaught).

g) Combaticons: Blast Off will be the largest and form the body. Onslaught, Vortex, Brawl, and Swindle will be the limbs. New characters might need to be added like Devastator went to 7 Constructicons instead of 6. Bruticus could add a Harrier jet or two - perhaps reimagined Thundercracker and Skywarp?

Look - it might have to change the "cannon," to fit in the Michael Bay universe - which in many ways I DO perfer - though not how he handled Wheeljack and Mirage - mostly the former. Arcee as well - possibly.


But let's go to the Autobots:

the Leader will be Ultra Magnus. He works for Optimus Prime (who doesn't have to be in the movie but for a cameo - and the Autobot characters might mention the "death of Prime" during the course of the events they experience and Magnus could wonder whether he should rendezvous with Ironhide and SideSwipe during ROTF and take command, or mind his duty on the mission for this movie. Good conflict for the character.

Kup - Ultra Magnus would choose the Autobot with the most experience to be his first lieutenant. Kup will be an old pick-up. What else?

Springer - the best Autobot warrior on the team. His military background would give reason for him to be a defecting former Decepticon. Gives him both war experience and an edge. His triple-changing might or might not be needed. Helicopter mode for sure.

Hound - will be Springer's war buddy. Jeep as always. Could be a Humvee as reimagined though.

Trailbreaker - fits in with the off-road, all-purpose nature of the rest of this crew.

The story might focus on the Autobots above with Springer and Hound being leads like BumbleBee (alive and probably in Washington D.C. or Egypt at this time). Ultra Magnus would be the detached but heroic leader in the "Prime role."

Available Autobot cars might also include Hot Rod (not a Cybertronian mode), Sunstreaker (with concerns for his brother Sideswipe also serving in Egypt or somewhere), Blurr (another earth mode car, not Cybertronian but talks fast like his G1.5 character). Smokescreen and Tracks.

Hot Rod could be a central character, but I think I've imagined a better story for Springer / Hound / Ultra Magnus.

I think "my version" of Galvatron (though I'd like him to be built from Megatron though it doesn't seem to be an option at this point) is still pretty awesome and makes the Decepticon leader of this cast pretty darn cool.


HUMANS?

A new military cast with CIA opertatives - and possibly other Sector 7 agents.

If it were affordable and as a joke, I'd add a cameo by Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones as the Men In Black (Cars). John Turturro's character would be busy.

The "Michael Bay movie sexy chick?" I'd make her or both of them CIA and / or infantry military, possibly Sector 7, (which would be "officially disbanded at this point") but play the women seriously.