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  1. #1

    I have a bad feeling about this. Star Wars Episode VII (SPOILERS)

    First, we don't really know what Episode VII will be. I remember rumors about NSYNC in the prequels. Something about Charlton Heston as Yoda. There was all that Super Shadow business. So maybe Han won't be commanding a Star Destroyer. Maybe there won't still be Stormtroopers. Maybe Han and Leia will be together. Maybe the film won't be about someone finding Luke's hand.

    But the latest spoiler, is that Luke will be evil. Maybe that's not true.

    But let's say these rumors are all true. I have moved past the point where I probably wouldn't see these movies, to being furious.

    I think these rumors will make the prequel debates look quaint. I think Disney will be making a huge mistake.

    I can already see apologists leaping to the defense of this movie. "You don't know what happened after Return of the Jedi." "Don't get mad the story didn't turn out the way you thought it did." "Yoda said once Luke started down the dark path it would forever dominate his destiny. He lost his temper fighting Vader, so he HAD to turn to the Dark Side." "Star Wars is about recurring themes and motifs. Anakin turned to the Dark Side and now Luke has to also."

    And I say that is a bunch of garbage. It isn't just about thinking that after Return of the Jedi that Han and Leia would be together and that Luke would become the Jedi Master, passing on what he had learned. It's that if that is not what happened there was NO POINT to the original trilogy, and perhaps the entire saga.

    Enjoy the love story of Han and Leia in Empire and Jedi? Well too bad, they don't end up together.

    Think the original trilogy was about the hero's journey? Well it wasn't. It was all just building up to another guy with a red lightsaber, but this time to make you interested we're going to make it a character you already know.

    Believe Lucas that Star Wars has always been about the fall and redemption of Anakin Skywalker, saved by his son? Well not anymore. Star Wars is about a family that was cursed by being born of a Sith Lord's experiment with midichlorians so they must all turn evil eventually. Doesn't it just make you want to cue up Luke looking at the setting suns from A New Hope? Won't you just thrill to watch Luke proclaim "You've failed your highness. I am a Jedi, like my father before me." Won't Vader throwing the Emperor down the pit just be so exciting because he's saving the next scourge of the galaxy?

    If this is all true, it enrages me because Kasdan wanted Jedi to be dark like Empire and Lucas overruled him. Well now he'll get his wish.

    We should have seen franchise destruction coming with Abrams taking the helm. He threw out all Star Trek canon, why not trash the original trilogy?

    The funny thing is people will probably say they miss George Lucas. George will love to read that (except the first press releases said they bought Lucas' stories, so he may be to blame if this is all true.)

    Luke should have been the Obi-wan character in Episode VII. Frankly, I was more worried he'd die like Obi-wan. But to make him evil? What are we to think of Obi-wan? Everything he touched was a failure?

    Why would Disney pay this kind of money to kill main characters? Make them evil? This is the House of Mouse for heaven's sake. Compared to the DC films, Marvel films have been fun. Of course there should be Empire Strikes Backs in the new movies, but not the first one. The first one should be fun like a New Hope, or even with a creeping evil like the Phantom Menace. Let us reminisce with the old characters and introduce new ones as the old characters are phased out. You can't launch a new franchise with a brooding, depressing movie. You can't start with the Empire Strikes Back.

    That is why Star Trek films fell apart. Every movie become a dark revenge movie that tried to be Wrath of Khan without having laid the groundwork for why there was this revenge and hatred.

    I applauded throwing out the EU. It was convoluted and moviegoers should not have been expected to keep up with or be introduced to it. And there were Clone Emperors. Luke turning evil in the Dark Empire books. Chewie's dead. Jaicen Solo turns evil. Anakin Solo dead. It's depressing.

    But then we have Hand of Luke instead of Glove of Vader. Luke turns evil just like in Dark Empire. Luke turns evil like Jaicen. Rather than throwing out the EU, they're doing the same stories but acting like they thought of it.

    I think that the general public, people like my parents who aren't into 30 years of back story, who skipped the prequels, but like Harrison Ford and enjoyed the original trilogy, might have tuned in for this movie. If it is the movie we are hearing about, my parents will ask what in the world they just watched, assuming they even go. My children love the original trilogy. I certainly won't take them to see a movie where Han and Leia aren't together and Luke turns evil. We waited thirty years for that? This is what happened next after Return of the Jedi?

    And maybe someone will say, "Luke can turn evil and be redeemed just like Vader. What's your problem?" My problem is that Luke would either have to be a toothless villain, killing no one, or a villain who kills people and is redeemed. The character will be ruined. Vader was evil from the moment we saw him. If we had seen Episodes I-VI in order no one would have accepted the redemption. Darth Vader wouldn't have been awesome. Anakin Skywalker would have been a ruined character. And the story stopped at VI and Vader died. We didn't have to see him going around in white armor. We didn't have to watch Leia accepting Vader as part of the team after his complicity in destroying Alderaan. If Luke turns evil, he is a ruined character.

    Why can't this movie just be fun? It all sounds like bad fan fiction. Oooo, Luke can shoot force lightning out of his one good hand. Oooo.

    It isn't just about me not seeing the movie. It isn't just me being furious about the movie. It isn't just childhoods being slapped in the face. It isn't just the fans being ripped apart even worse than they were by the prequels. I honestly believe it will destroy the franchise and be a huge financial disaster for Disney. Maybe not the first movie. Curiosity will bring people in.

    I hope I am wrong. I hope these are false spoilers.

    I have a bad feeling about this.

  2. #2
    I kinda don't care about Episode VII anymore. Okay, not in a negative sense; I'm not concerned with it. Star Wars and the EU have always been a single, cohesive narrative, but, starting in 2002 with the "Jedi don't get married, no matter if 75% are married in the EU" and really steamrolling with The Force Unleashed, the Brian Wood comic, Clone Wars, and finally Disney ditching the EU. It's now a universe like the Transformers G1 comics, so I'm going to look at it like that.

    Here's an explanation, since that won't make any sense to most people.

    The original Transformers comic lasted 80 issues, plus the 4-issue Headmasters series. It was, mostly, a straightforward story, with a few little blips and brainfarts (water turning out to be an unknown on Cybertron, despite Bumblebee being happy in #1 to find there was water on Earth; Jetfire recalling the Ballobots on Cybertron even though he was made on Earth).

    Then there are the UK comics. These were weekly, so they republished the US stories with lots of new (often better) stories told around them. Unlike the US comics, however, the UK comics shared The Transformers: The Movie with the unrelated cartoon, only it takes place in 2006 instead of 2005, and involves time travel at times between the future and present characters. Usually, the two comics jive pretty well. When the UK writer took over the US book, he downplayed some of the stories, but mentioned others, making them US canon (despite most US readers having no way to have read them).

    Confused yet? Good. You will be.

    Transformers #3 co-stars Spider-Man and features several other Marvel Universe characters. Not just cameos, the guy plays a pretty major role in the story. Shortly afterwards, we find out the Dinobots took their alt-forms because they fought Shockwave in the MU Savage Land. A major human character, Circuit Breaker, was owned by Marvel and appeared in the Secret Wars comic. However, the G.I.Joe team and their vehicles start popping up soon. The Joes absolutely don't exist in he MU.

    They don't exist in the UK TF comics, either, because there's a team called Action Force. They were characters called Flint, Scarlett, Snake Eyes, etc, only they were English. The TFs had had many run-ins with them in the UK.

    It gets extra confusing when Bumblebee becomes Gold Bug. In the US, he was killed when the Joes mistook him for a hostile. Since the Joes didn't exist in the UK, and this crossover was never reprinted with the names changed, a bounty hunter named Death's Head killed Bumblebee. Gold Bug was built by the Joe team as an "oops, sorry," or by a time-traveling Wreck-Gar, depending on what side of the Atlantic you lived on. (To make things stranger, Death's Head was a HUGE player in the UK comics, but was a Marvel-owned character who proved to be VERY popular and has even appeared in recent Iron Man comics and has a forthcoming Marvel figure.)

    Then, there are multiple future and parallel universe stories in the later UK comics, particularly Earthforce (an ongoing, semi-humorous story of a team led by Grimlock... a team of Autobots who should be dead at the time, fighting Decepticons who weren't on Earth) and Aspects of Evil (where a dying Rodimus Prime flashes back to "future" stories set in the 1990s that were directly disputed by the same writer on the US title).

    So, we're not even past the end of the original series, and already there's simply no way to reconcile this into one easy-to-manage story. There are at least five different continuations that I know of (Another Time and Place; US and UK Generation 2, which were totally separate at this point; Classics; and ReGeneration One). None of these jive AT ALL.

    ReGeneration One was the most recent (and best) of the continuations. It chucks out everything from the other continuations (but pays homage to ATAP and USG2, particularly with the G2 character Jhiaxus, who was an advanced Decepticon in G2 an an incredibly ancient Senator in RG1, so simply can't be the same character despite looking and acting the same).

    (This isn't even considering totally separate universes, like the cartoon or the Dreamwave and IDW comics.)

    So, yeah, huge, confusing wall of text here. My point is, THIS is Star Wars now. The only thing we can agree for sure on are the movies. Some may say six movies, some eight, some three, depending on whether you want the Ewok movies and Prequels in there. Everything else, it's like TF, or maybe like post-Crisis Batman, where the stories just went in a new direction, and you could assume any stories from before that you liked were still canon (and any you didn't weren't) until such time as a new story confirmed, contradicted, or altered the earlier one.

    So, if Luke turns out to be a villain, no big deal to me. I'll just look at it as another parallel universe that branched out. I have serious doubts about Episode VII for other reasons (mostly named Abrams).
    Tommy, close your eyes.

  3. #3
    I wish these things didn't make me angry. I'm glad they don't make you angry.

    However, at least for me, Star Wars movies mean quite a bit more than comic books, of any subject, including Star Wars comics.

    I will never find "if you don't like it, don't watch" or, as in Star Trek, "look, it's a parallel universe, you can watch the old films any time you want", to be an acceptable retort to ruining Star Wars.

    I really wish people would stop defending bad story choices and understand that there are countless other stories, better stories that could have been told. And maybe even the more daring choice, leaving a good story alone and not telling more stories.

    The original trilogy, and even the flawed prequel trilogy, tell a cohesive story that ends on a happily ever after high note. These new films appear ready to set out to not only disrupt that happily ever after, but to undermine the very films the franchise hopes to capitalize on.

    If these rumors are true, someone should be ashamed, including Mark Hamill, who probably thinks it will be a hoot to play a bad guy, in the same way he enjoys playing the Joker, without any thought to the legacy he is destroying and what children are supposed to think as they watch the original trilogy in light of where the character ends up.

    We have been told, over and over and over again, that these are children's movies. If Luke turns evil, they really, really need to stop saying that.

  4. #4
    I kind of agree with you. But, for better or worse, in current continuity, Lois and Clark aren't married and Clark's banging Wonder Woman, Spider-Man struck a deal with the devil to erase his marriage, Megatron destroyed the Earth, Tim Drake was never Robin, etc. I did get angry about it, even up to recently.

    But what's done is done. We don't own any of these characters or universes, so no use getting angry because the people who do aren't in touch with the properties.

    (Disclaimer: Megatron destroying Earth was actually awesome.)
    Tommy, close your eyes.

  5. #5
    Honestly, I don't see the point in getting angry over unconfirmed internet rumors. Maybe JJ Abrams is just really good at sending out red herrings, or maybe they are intentionally feeding their employees false information to see where the security leaks are. There's really no point in condemning the story of a movie that hasn't even finished filming yet.
    "To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence… When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." - C.S. Lewis

  6. #6
    I agree with bigbarada. No point in getting upset about it without having a real clue about what the real theme is. All that we really know for sure is that Han, Luke, and Leia are in them.
    Nowhere in your incoherent ramblings did you come anywhere close to the answer. Thanks to you, everyone in this room is now stupider having heard you. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul. -Billy Madison-

  7. #7
    Right now, I'm much more interested in SW Rebels than I am in Ep 7. I have less than no faith in JJ Abrams to deliver a solid story after his Mission Impossible movie and the 2 Star Treks he did, as well as the hash made of Alias, but I also can't imagine Disney letting it go too far off the rails either. But either way, it's just too soon to decide what's real and what's not.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "In Brooklyn, a castle, is where dwell I"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  8. #8
    First of all, could this rumor be true? Let's look at it in the larger context of what has been leaked or rumored from Episode VII.

    The leaked, seemingly real concept art from last week shows a female character dealing with an evil-looking hooded cyborg in a few locations, including in a rocky cave and on an icy planet. Other artwork shows that the cyborg has an exposed robotic right hand similar to the one that Anakin had in AOTC and ROTS, a clean-shaven human mouth and chin, blue eyes, and the burned helmet of Darth Vader, last seen with Luke on Endor. With a robotic mask covering most of the cyborg's face, it is difficult to tell his age or identity, at least in the artwork.

    There were a few days of filming at Skellig Michael, a rocky Irish island, with spy reports revealing the presence of Daisy Ridley, who's playing the film's female lead, and Mark Hamill, who's assumed to be playing Luke Skywalker. (Nothing from Lucasfilm has actually indicated the roles or involvement of the returning actors. Note that Hamill was listed third in the original announcement, after Ford and Fisher.) Filming was said to occur for three days, between July 28 and July 30. Less than two weeks later on August 11, the Bad Robot tweet that revealed the winner of the Force For Change campaign included a robotic right hand holding a note in front of a rocky background. Rumor sites noted that the hand belonged to the film's villain.

    Previous rumors stated that the film's leads, played by Daisy Ridley and John Boyega, would find Luke's severed hand and lightsaber, thus driving the action and sending them on a search for Skywalker (similar to Luke finding Leia's message to Obi-Wan). It was later implied that the hand was not Luke's severed hand from Bespin but rather the result of a more recent skirmish, with the fact that it floats through space seemingly indicating that it would be a robotic hand, not an organic one. Other rumors stated that Luke had been missing for a period of time, with some rumors saying he had been abducted by Imperial agents shortly after the events of ROTJ (30-35 years before Episode VII) and others saying he had been missing for around 10 years, with even Han Solo unsure of his whereabouts. Rumors also said that the film will be the first use of flashbacks in a Star Wars movie, detailing how these events transpired.

    Mark Hamill has been growing his beard out during the production of the film, from being seen with short stubble in the cast announcement photo to his current bushy beard. Obviously filming hasn't been taking place the entire time, but there appears to have been no attempt to keep it at a predetermined length. It's even possible that the beard is meant for the flashbacks to show how Luke was abducted, which would only have required a short amount of filming.

    In light of the few facts that we have, I have to say that this rumor is very possibly true. It's even worth noting that, while MakingStarWars leaked it, several other sites said that they had also heard the rumor and were trying to keep it quiet to preserve the surprise in the film – so even if it's not true, it seems to be what everyone is hearing.
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  9. #9
    The latest revalation that Luke kills Han is not resting well with me. (Latino Review)
    BAD Pts Need: R5-C7 lf leg (x2), , R4-P44 right leg BAD Pts Offered For Trade: PM me - I have lots of parts now including BG-J38!. New Kyle Katarn is also available.


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