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  1. #21
    I liked the Thrawn trilogy for this reason. The New Republic had been at war with the Imperial remnants for five years, and they were doomed to lose because of infighting and a lack of organization. Then Thrawn shows up. He is able to unite the warlords under his command--and, most importantly, he's a likable character. He completely turns the tables around on the Rebels until one of his seemingly most loyal subjects kills him because of an agreement between Vader and his race, and Thrawn not taking into account they might recognize Leia as Vader's daughter.

    The fall of the Empire didn't play out like the fall of Nazi Germany. Germany had been declining, losing territory for a while, and then Hitler killed himself as the Russians captured Berlin. The destruction of the second Death Star would be more akin to Hitler and Himmler holding a secret meeting at the Wolf's Lair (following years of trouncing the Allies repeatedly and preventing them from getting a foothold in Europe, most recently taking over, say, Britain) and a small group of Allied commandos blowing up the building with them inside. In this case, there's nothing to make us presume the remaining Nazi generals and other leaders wouldn't keep fighting. They weren't losing, exactly. They just lost their two top guys and a superweapon at once. (Granted, we see the general populace celebrating Palpatine's death in the Special Editions, but what's to say the Stormtroopers didn't give everyone present a severe spanking immediately afterwards?)

    BTW, is Obsession is still canon (which seems debatable following what I've heard about the last season of Clone Wars), Asajj Ventress is believed to be dead, but is in hiding. Trouble is (in terms of her being an E7 villain), she no longer wants anything to do with Sith or war.

    What do I want? An explanation of what The Journal of the Whills is, what a Whill is, and what the significance of "The Son of the Sun" is.
    Tommy, close your eyes.

  2. #22
    Oh, and a better damned explanation for why some Jedi fade and some don't. The prequels answered some questions and raised others, but they were questions that practically undermined the original series and everything that came between the two trilogies. (If all Jedi didn't fade, why did Lucas okay almost two decades worth of stories where that happened, or at least hit on it in TPM in a way that didn't make us all think something was wrong with Qui-Gon?)
    Tommy, close your eyes.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by JEDIpartner View Post
    They can de-age them, but they can't de-fat them.
    They probably can, did you see what ILM did with Mark Ruffalo's the Hulk in The Avengers?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigbarada View Post
    That doesn't seem like it could be true. If nothing else, the Library of Congress should still have a copy of each film from their original releases. I don't know how easy it would be to gain access to those copies for the purposes of digital restoration, but I'm sure it could be done.
    The Library of Congress' National Film Registry does not preserve all films, only select films are actually preserved. And digital restoration is of course possible, but why would they put a lot of money into restoring the old ANH when a pristine digital transfer of the new ANH is at their fingertips and Lucas himself as rejected the original? So it's unlikely. But the ANH master print is gone for good, that was the point of the Special Editions, Lucas found out in the early '90s that Fox had stored their masters (not just ANH but most Fox films - ESB and ROTJ weren't owned by Fox so they're not included, Lucas had them on his own) stored in a salt mine that didn't take into account enough environmental variables which led to the cellulose degrading and the color fading horribly, so Lucas took the decaying masters for ANH to ILM in '94 or so and instructed them to restore it, and that's when he realized based on the work they were doing for Jurassic Park and other films that he could go back and fix the mistakes that personally bothered him about ANH, and that became the ANH restoration that would later be released as the "special edition" - he restored ANH to death. So the master print of the original ANH is gone forever, which leaves the only possibility of an HD transfer coming from a well-preserved 35mm distribution print, but those are few and far between, and their cellulose has been decaying for 35 years, and there are multiple iterations - slightly different edits and many different audio versions, as well as 16mm prints and a very few 70mm blow-ups (ANH was shot on 35mm so 70mm is blown up from that, the film grain doubles in size), which means Disney would have to track down a miracle-quality distribution print that was basically unused, and cut to the final version of the film with the final version of the audio track. It's basically a "not going to happen" situation, IMO.


    Seriously, I hope no filmmaker ever tries that again, it looked horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible. Because all they did was erase wrinkles and they never even addressed the long-term effects of gravity on a human face and the fact that face widen over time. So we ended up with smooth-skinned yet still saggy, fat faces that looked totally inhuman.
    Heh, yeah they were pretty bad, but it's been a while so maybe they got better at it.

    Maybe they can cast Shia LeBeouf as Han Solo's son and have him sit in the pilot's seat of the Millenium Falcon at the end of the movie only to have Harrison Ford yank him out and say, "Don't even think about it."
    Ford will be 73 by then, so he'll probably need a walker just to get him to the cockpit.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tycho View Post
    I worry the latest news about Episodes 7, 8, 9, etc. might throw the EU to the wind. It doesn't have to. Nor does it need to make movies out of the existing books to keep with the continuity.
    The post-ROTJ EU is dead, it has to be, the filmmakers need freedom from outside ideas to build off of Lucas' snippets of vision that he's feeding them for this. Lucas has shown no interest in salvaging the EU with the prequels or with Clone Wars so far, there's no reason to expect him to here either. And it shouldn't matter what we want, it should only matter what the filmmakers want to use to tell a good story - a good story told well will make an audience find it, it will create what an audience wants rather than base itself on audience expectations.


    Quote Originally Posted by bigbarada View Post
    Well, I kind of see it similar to what happened with Nazi Germany. Most of those guys knew what they were doing was evil, so once Hitler was dead, the Nazis basically dissolved and most of the high ranking officers went into hiding to keep from being prosecuted for their crimes. I could imagine a similar situation with the Empire. It would also underscore the idea that Palpatine's evil influence was behind most of the drive behind the Imperials. Once he was dead, that drive to die for the Empire would no longer exist.

    There might be a few factions here and there, but I feel that the Empire was portrayed as too strong and too unified in the post-ROTJ EU, simply because the writers couldn't come up with a more original "villain" for the Rebels.
    The difference at the end of ROTJ though is that there is no signficant outside global power in Star Wars to bring the regional governors and admirals to prosecution the way there was at the end of WW2. The Rebellion was not authorized by any single planet (except maybe Alderaan) into creating a new system of government on their own which swept over the entire known galaxy, even if their goals were to reinstate the Republic - which seemed likely - there was no immediate way to do that neatly, which as I posted in the news comments, means that after ROTJ there was likely a lot of powerful governors and admirals who splintered into factions, some who became warlords, some who tried to rebuild the Empire with a few others, and some maybe who even joined the Rebellion cause or just ruled their systems without cruelty. The EU surrounding ROTJ suggested that the Emperor had some form of Force influence over the admiralty, so there is possibility there in a few just admirals controlling troops and Star Destroyers, a few just regional governors, but the Imperials seemed largely like jerks.


    Quote Originally Posted by El Chuxter View Post
    I liked the Thrawn trilogy for this reason. The New Republic had been at war with the Imperial remnants for five years, and they were doomed to lose because of infighting and a lack of organization. Then Thrawn shows up. He is able to unite the warlords under his command--and, most importantly, he's a likable character. He completely turns the tables around on the Rebels until one of his seemingly most loyal subjects kills him because of an agreement between Vader and his race, and Thrawn not taking into account they might recognize Leia as Vader's daughter.
    Agreed, that's one of the Thrawn trilogy elements I really liked as well, it seemed well-thought-out and possible.

    What do I want? An explanation of what The Journal of the Whills is, what a Whill is, and what the significance of "The Son of the Sun" is.
    Haven't you LEARNED yet from the drubbing we got on the prequels? The more Lucas explains about this stuff that was meant to be hinted at and not told, the more disappointing it becomes.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "In Brooklyn, a castle, is where dwell I"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by El Chuxter View Post
    Oh, and a better damned explanation for why some Jedi fade and some don't. The prequels answered some questions and raised others, but they were questions that practically undermined the original series and everything that came between the two trilogies. (If all Jedi didn't fade, why did Lucas okay almost two decades worth of stories where that happened, or at least hit on it in TPM in a way that didn't make us all think something was wrong with Qui-Gon?)
    Vader didn't fade when he was killed either, Luke had to burn up his body as well, so perhaps Qui-Gon's roguish ways kept him from joining the Force until he was purged, that'd fit with some religions' version of purgatory, a forge that burned away all the sins and evils within the soul so that it could be made clean and sent to heaven - Lucas borrowed heavily from ideas like that. Personally, I could have lived with that and left the stupid Yoda comments at the end of ROTS out entirely.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "In Brooklyn, a castle, is where dwell I"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by JediTricks View Post
    Vader didn't fade when he was killed either, Luke had to burn up his body as well, so perhaps Qui-Gon's roguish ways kept him from joining the Force until he was purged, that'd fit with some religions' version of purgatory, a forge that burned away all the sins and evils within the soul so that it could be made clean and sent to heaven - Lucas borrowed heavily from ideas like that. Personally, I could have lived with that and left the stupid Yoda comments at the end of ROTS out entirely.
    That's not 100% clear, though. We see Vader close his eyes, and, the next time we see him, he's on the pyre with the mask back on. It's not established in the originals how much Anakin physically remains, only that he's more machine than man.

    I could live with the Yoda comments if they'd actually put Liam Neeson in the damned movie. Obi-Wan looks like a moron the way he responds to him, when the logical response would be, "Yoda, you done flipped your lid."
    Tommy, close your eyes.

  6. #26
    Now this is how you can tell the Disney purchase of Lucasfilm and Star Wars is a big deal. Just heard that Disney plans on taking Walt out of the vault and unfreezing him for the premiere of Episode VII.
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    Rogue Squadron-19 Golds, Battle For Naboo-18 Platinums, Rogue Leader-15 Golds/15 Aces, Rebel Strike-19 Single Golds/19 Single Aces
    James Boba Fettfield & Lord Malakite's Video Game Collection

  7. #27
    The issue with negating all the post ROTJ Exp. Univ. is that stuff - the sale of the reprinted books like Heir to the Empire which might still sell alright for a 20 year old book, since newbies keep becoming fans and may not have even been able to read when they first did so - makes money for the franchise.

    Who would buy HTTE any more (what new fan who's old enough to read at last)? - when it's all negated by new movies?

    Here are some options that leave the EU intact:

    1) RE-CAST the original characters and do some movies when the twins are still in their 20's and Han in his early 30's.

    2) Do adventures between the books, in a story-arc, with Harrison, Mark, and Carrie and create the new generation of Star Wars age heroes with Jacen, Jaina, Anakin S. and Ben Skywalker, Alanah Solo, etc.

    3) Use the EU timeline where there is a deliberate gap:

    1. Anakin + Padme = Luke and Leia

    2. Leia + Han = Jaina, Jacen, and Anakin / / Luke + Mara = Ben

    3. Jacen + Tenel Ka = Allanah Solo // Jaina + Jagged Fel = "T Fel" - (an heir to the Imperial Throne, too) // Ben + ? = "U Skywalker"

    4. Allanah Solo + ? = "V" // "T Fel "+ ?= "W Fel" // "U Skywalker" + ? = X Skywalker

    5."V" +? ="Y" // "W Fel" + ? = Roan Fel // "X Skywalker" + ? = Cole Skywalker and "Uncle Bantha"

    6. "Y" + ? = "Z" // Roan Fel + ? = Marsiah Fel // Cole Skywalker + Morrigan Corrde = Cade Skywalker

    Anywhere I substitued a variable from T-Z is a gap for a character's story to be told.

    Anywhere up to No. 4 above, Harrison, Carrie, and Mark could appear to meet and teach their grand children. If rumors of Luke having a padawan are true, it might be Cole Skywalker's father (Cade's grandfather). He's never been named but has to exist in order for Cade to. So why the gap? It could have been intentional.

    If they want a girl Jedi lead, like Ahsoka is to Clone Wars, there's Allanah Solo. (Jacen would be dead by that point, and Han and Leia would be raising their grand-daughter). Allanah would be the Star Wars hero age (around 20) with taking into account Mark, Harrison, and Carrie's current age. Well, maybe Allanah would be a teenager.

    The Fels and Skywalkers of this generation are totally unnamed and have never been represented. There are still stormtroopers and an Imperial Remnant the Fels somehow gain control over. The Fel's are Imperial Knights too - Royal Guard styled warriors that can use the Force and carry lightsabers.

    Anyway, a story done here would work, keept the EU and employ the original actors in roles they could work for.
    BAD Pts Need: R5-C7 lf leg (x2), , R4-P44 right leg BAD Pts Offered For Trade: PM me - I have lots of parts now including BG-J38!. New Kyle Katarn is also available.

  8. #28
    So apparently, Lucas had/wrote 12 movies in all. I had always heard 9, but 12? At least the next trilogy will focus on Luke, Leia, and Han for continually.
    Nowhere in your incoherent ramblings did you come anywhere close to the answer. Thanks to you, everyone in this room is now stupider having heard you. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul. -Billy Madison-

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Metalmute View Post
    So apparently, Lucas had/wrote 12 movies in all. I had always heard 9, but 12? At least the next trilogy will focus on Luke, Leia, and Han for continually.
    J.W. Rinzler wrote an interesting blog entry about Lucas' ever-changing stance on the number of films, charting the history of what he said and when.
    My Photos and Reviews: SSG Toy Guide
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  10. #30
    He's always planned 42. It's his homage to the late Douglas Adams.
    Tommy, close your eyes.

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