Quote Originally Posted by Tycho View Post
Now what the hell does Abrams or Michael Bay have to do with the movie complaints?
Everything Michael Bay is a part of is terrible and everything Abrams does with a franchise is terrible.

Quote Originally Posted by Tycho View Post
THE STORY called for those rehashed moments from Wrath of Khan (WOK - from here on out).
I've missed you, Tycho. You always do this. You refuse to accept that there are nearly an infinite number of options in deciding what story to tell and then you accept whatever story you are given and say that it had to be that way because the story dictated it. There HAD to be midichlorians to explain Anakin's virgin birth, when there never had to be a virgin birth. There HAD to be a blockade of Naboo to show how Palpatine became Supreme Chancellor, when he could have risen to power in a hundred ways assuming they didn't just have him already be "President" or something before he became Emperor. And there didn't even have to be a planet called Naboo.

Wrath of Khan is the best thing Trek ever did and Trek has ruined itself repeatedly trying to capture that lightning in a bottle again, rather than, for example, doing something totally different like Best of Both Worlds or the Dominion War. Nemesis failed for so many reasons, the main one being it wanted to be Wrath of Khan (and no one who watched Trek all those years could claim Picard's clone or Data's prototype were a Nemesis to either of them.) The STORY of this latest film did not have to be Wrath of Khan. Why not show this new crew exploring the universe, build up some charisma between them based on their new adventures and what new and interesting thing they found out there rather than rehashing an old storyline? With CGI they could put anything they want on film, and yet there hasn't been a Star Trek movie really addressing the theme of exploration and the continuation of the human adventure since, well since Final Frontier to be fair, but I think really since The Motion Picture.

Everything is a big shoot 'em up trying to be Wrath of Khan, which itself spent much more time dealing with themes of lost youth, friendship, and obsession than it did action. Except for the Reliant's initial attack on the Enterprise and the cat and mouse in the nebula, very little of that movie is an action piece, yet the movie flies by, is filled with tension throughout, and though it is a point frequently made, Khan and Kirk are never in the same place the entire movie! All of their drama is on the viewscreen or over the communicators. You didn't need a fist fight through San Francisco. Action is fine, but nowadays it is a cover for a lack of story and there being no "there there".

Quote Originally Posted by Tycho View Post
The STORY was written by Orci and Kurtzman who brought you the Transformers movies and the first Trek reboot movie.
There's a ringing endorsement.

Quote Originally Posted by Tycho View Post
A director (unless he's also the producer) just films what's on the page.
What a total and complete misunderstanding of the director's role you have!

Quote Originally Posted by Tycho View Post
Perhaps a director can say "I don't want to do it this way" or re-write the scene? It would usually need approval.
Spielberg and Lucas created Indy shooting the swordsman. Kershner and Ford created "I know." I believe "I didn't kill my wife. - I don't care." came out on set of the Fugitive. Great directors aren't just in charge of camera placement, yelling action, cut, faster, and more intense.

Quote Originally Posted by Tycho View Post
Now George Lucas was the creator of ESB and pretty much the original writer, too. Kershner did what Lucas told him but he could consult Lucas during the filming.
It would have been a better example to talk about Lucas and Marquand's reltionship during Return of the Jedi, because if you knew about the production of Empire you couldn't be more wrong. Lucas was so unhappy with Kershner that he once proclaimed "you're ruining my movie" and tried to "save" it in editing making a terrible version.

Quote Originally Posted by Tycho View Post
Who knows if Orci and Kurtzman hang around for Abrams to film just in case he can go "I think they should be Ferengi and not Klingons."
I think you would be hard pressed to provide me with an example of a time where a writer had the majority of control in a movie. I hear J.K. Rowling was given quite a bit of deference on Potter. Directors are rarely hired guns and Abrams and Bay are certainly not. Once they agree to take on a project they pretty much dominate it. Abrams and Bay are not Rick McCallum. And I can totally blame Bay or Abrams for a terrible movie because even if they don't have control once hired, they could have refused to take the job. They don't need the money.

Quote Originally Posted by Tycho View Post
One thing I would have done is made Old Spock more passionate when it was discovered that Harrison was Khan. He has said emotion is part of a complete being's composition already and consoled young Spock of that very fact. I would have had Leonard Nimoy shout, Kahn? Kill him! Kill him now!" all enraged, emotionally. Just for the impact of that one scene where even Old Spock loses control. This would be THAT moment, right?
I find the idea that young Spock calls young Spock to ask for advice to be such a lazy way of using Nimoy and if they passed the baton in the last movie, they should have left Spock off in the sunset. Using Nimoy just reminds everyone what Quinto ain't.

And I hate the way Spock is used. Everyone says, "Spock is so logical and unemotional" except now every person who writes for Spock thinks that there should be a moment where Spock loses it and emotes all over the place in everything Spock is in. In episode after episode of the original series, Spock might have some un-Vulcan sarcasm played for humor in his comments, but he was his cool, logical self. There are examples of Spock emoting, usually when some alien force affects him in some way. But what makes the moment in Amok Time so special when he sees Kirk is alive is it was RARE. Then you have the journey as an older man in the films when he embraces his human side and realizes logic is the beginning of wisdom. It is a beautiful journey for a tortured soul, but even when we see Spock in Next Generation he doesn't weep over Sarek's death or anything. But now every movie these hack writers have Spock sing a song, try to strangle Kirk with his bare hands, or in a moment of total fan wank yell "Khan!"

Quote Originally Posted by Tycho View Post
I also think the actor chosen to play Khan Noonian Sing should have been of Indian-National descent, as the character was supposed to be. Young Khan without the pony tail? Maybe. But making him a British Jason Bourne? (I'm not going to say Bond because he didn't wear a tuxedo).
Yes, interesting isn't it that somehow Nero going back in time to a period after Khan was already in stasis on the Botany Bay would make him completely different in the new timeline?

And why exactly would that time travel cause yet a third look for the Klingons so they now look like Nikto?