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  1. #11
    At least Disney's SW comics will tide us over until... [whisper, whisper] Really? That TOO?
    "That's what Sheev said."

  2. #12
    That one still has me dubious, 2 more years to ramp up some pulp books? C'mon. Just hire some artists to re-draw classic Marvel scripts if you got nothing else. I dunno.

    I think I'll be spending money on frames for my McQuarrie art.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "In Brooklyn, a castle, is where dwell I"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  3. #13
    Marvel is less a publishing house than an IP warehouse now. Truth is, I suspect both Disney and Warner own their comic companies entirely for the library of characters and don't want to publish funny books since they're relatively less profitable. When Disney bought Marvel, all licensed Disney books went to Marvel and died within months, even successful, critically-acclaimed stuff like Muppets.
    Tommy, close your eyes.

  4. #14
    http://www.sirstevesguide.com/conten...-Line-Canceled

    Steve posted the official word on this, the line is canned due to cost increases, the droid parts while intending to be a value-adder would have apparently caused a price increase. IMO, Hasbro's overhead is too high or they aren't being competitive enough with manufacturing and need to get the heck out of China and either into other Asian countries or perhaps Mexico (Mexican manufacturing has a vastly sliding quality scale based entirely on price, but the thing is you can get more bang for your buck when you're saving so much on shipping). Honestly though, I think upper management at Hasbro needs to take a look at why the company overhead is where it is, fir example they won't even make a product if it doesn't look like it'll make X percent back because management needs to be paid for, and there are policies in place that are outmoded like high minimum unit sales keeping smaller retailers from direct purchases.

    Quote Originally Posted by El Chuxter View Post
    Marvel is less a publishing house than an IP warehouse now. Truth is, I suspect both Disney and Warner own their comic companies entirely for the library of characters and don't want to publish funny books since they're relatively less profitable. When Disney bought Marvel, all licensed Disney books went to Marvel and died within months, even successful, critically-acclaimed stuff like Muppets.
    I saw you mention that in the article comments. However, Marvel's management is autonomous from Disney still, so it's not about Disney owning them, if they dropped the ball it's on Marvel's shoulders.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "In Brooklyn, a castle, is where dwell I"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  5. #15
    I kind of wonder if the 2012 TVC sales figures were so much lower than what Hasbro projected, that this is just the first step of them abandoning the collector's line altogether. Maybe they've decided that we're just too high maintenance and not worth their time anymore.

    Although, I don't see how they could expect last year's sales to be anything but disappointing when a big chunk of the figures scheduled for release in 2012 spent most of the year rotting in a warehouse.
    "To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence… When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." - C.S. Lewis

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by bigbarada View Post
    I kind of wonder if the 2012 TVC sales figures were so much lower than what Hasbro projected, that this is just the first step of them abandoning the collector's line altogether. Maybe they've decided that we're just too high maintenance and not worth their time anymore.

    Although, I don't see how they could expect last year's sales to be anything but disappointing when a big chunk of the figures scheduled for release in 2012 spent most of the year rotting in a warehouse.
    I don't think it's that malicious on Hasbro's part. I believe that it really does have to do with cost issues - as JT said, something along the line needs to be changed so that this doesn't keep happening. They're still going to be pushing 2012's backstock out to retailers, so I guess that's the collector-focused line as it exists for now.

    It's easy to forget that there weren't always three different basic figure lines. From 1995 to 2005, there was only ever one all-encompassing line that included figures meant for collectors, figures meant for kids, and repacks. Occasionally there were sublines (and obviously the look was refreshed every 12-18 months), but this fractured line didn't really start until the separate greatest hits lines started appearing in 2006 to keep top sellers on shelves. (Were those shipped separately? I don't even remember, but I thought that they were on the same pegs as the regular line.) I guess you could say the either-or approach started with VOTC in 2004, but that was kept as a limited line. I wonder how they'll handle the next three films, since this approach to the main line wasn't developed until after the ROTS line was done. Frankly I would like to see a return to something similar to the TAC line - refreshes to main characters and plenty of background characters, and not every single character needed 14 expensive points of articulation so they were able to do interesting accessories as well.
    My Photos and Reviews: SSG Toy Guide
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  7. #17
    I liked what JabbaJohnL said above.

    I was thinking that in terms of OT (only) Star Wars, I now have almost every figure I always wanted - and nearly all the updates.

    I'd buy a Blue Snaggletoothe that was single-carded.

    I want Sim Aloo (original Imp dignitary)

    I'd buy a few more Waroks if he were single-carded or with a never-before-made-Ewok.

    There's a cool variant version of Luke Dagobah I've suggested and would buy.

    But as a kid,I wanted Han Stormtrooper, Tarkin, Piett, Wedge, the bartender, Ephont Mon, Leia Slave. Much of it's been done. The OT collector market must have really shrunk.

    The Ranat, Tzzzvvzzt, the Defel, a carded Garven Dreis, and a new mustached Bespin Guard etc. could all get me excited, but I'm not buying resculpts though the new kids don't have any version of some characters like Ponda Baba. So I understand.

    It's time to move on but keep your eye on your hobby for items you love, just don't expect a delivery every month or even every quarter. They can sell Darth Vader. I'm not buying.

    There are still plenty of PT and Expanded Universe and Clone Wars (animated style) they could sell me on, as well as new ships / large vehicles.

    If not, it's not like SW is my only thing (or toy purchasing for that matter). I have a lot of other things I'm interested in. But I'm not going to sell what I have! I'm going to appreciate it!
    BAD Pts Need: R5-C7 lf leg (x2), , R4-P44 right leg BAD Pts Offered For Trade: PM me - I have lots of parts now including BG-J38!. New Kyle Katarn is also available.

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by bigbarada View Post
    I kind of wonder if the 2012 TVC sales figures were so much lower than what Hasbro projected, that this is just the first step of them abandoning the collector's line altogether. Maybe they've decided that we're just too high maintenance and not worth their time anymore.

    Although, I don't see how they could expect last year's sales to be anything but disappointing when a big chunk of the figures scheduled for release in 2012 spent most of the year rotting in a warehouse.
    They aren't abandoning collectors, collectors' passion drives the variety and creation of new molds, both are attractive to casual consumers just not in the ravenous needs of the hardcore collector. Hasbro always said that TVC was meant to get the hardcore collector base to re-engage with the brand, the idea that they'd simply abandon that altogether is very unlikely. The problem is that they permanently lost a lot of hardcore collectors after the prequels, the economic hits in manufacturing and materials prices wiped out more audience, and then Hasbro hedged their bets on collectors coming back by further splitting their buying audiences and lost.

    Your point about product rotting in a warehouse is almost dead on, except Hasbro doesn't have warehouses anymore, they sold them off during the restructuring after the 2000 crash from TPM nearly killing the company, so in the 2012 case what happened is they put all this money into cutting new tools and then the big retailers didn't order much product from those tools. So it basically rotted in a theoretical warehouse in this case, same problem - money spent and not seeing return - but now not even any product to sell off to liquidators for return (although also no tax burdens from old unsold product sitting for over a year).


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. JabbaJohnL View Post
    I don't think it's that malicious on Hasbro's part. I believe that it really does have to do with cost issues - as JT said, something along the line needs to be changed so that this doesn't keep happening. They're still going to be pushing 2012's backstock out to retailers, so I guess that's the collector-focused line as it exists for now.

    It's easy to forget that there weren't always three different basic figure lines. From 1995 to 2005, there was only ever one all-encompassing line that included figures meant for collectors, figures meant for kids, and repacks. Occasionally there were sublines (and obviously the look was refreshed every 12-18 months), but this fractured line didn't really start until the separate greatest hits lines started appearing in 2006 to keep top sellers on shelves. (Were those shipped separately? I don't even remember, but I thought that they were on the same pegs as the regular line.) I guess you could say the either-or approach started with VOTC in 2004, but that was kept as a limited line. I wonder how they'll handle the next three films, since this approach to the main line wasn't developed until after the ROTS line was done. Frankly I would like to see a return to something similar to the TAC line - refreshes to main characters and plenty of background characters, and not every single character needed 14 expensive points of articulation so they were able to do interesting accessories as well.
    Certainly there's no malice on Hasbro's part, they are a business entity and trying their best to make business decisions that do well by the company and the brand. Some of it probably is management stumbles (buying into Lucasfilm's overhyping TPM 3D was a massive error), it happens, to err is human, and some of it is undoubtedly cost issues.

    In '96, Hasbro ran 2 lines, POTF2 and SOTE - SOTE did pretty poorly and eventually liquidated out (there were a lot of left-over Xizors and Snoova figures).
    In '98, Hasbro ran 2 lines, POTF2 and Expanded Universe - EU did ok at first then petered out to slow orders and eventually hit liquidation as well. Those were both separate SKUs meant to focus more on collector-interested product, and just like we're seeing today, both of those didn't fare well.
    '03 saw a pair of Star Wars lines - Clone Wars and Clone Wars animated, both of which bombed hard and clearanced out, but didn't go to liquidation.
    '04 saw a separate SKU for Hall of Fame, those I don't remember how they did but I do remember buying several on clearance. VOTC doesn't really count because that wasn't taking away from the mainline SKU, it was taking away from the deluxe SKU - supplanting it, really.
    In '05, the OTC line spewed out a second SKU for Post-OTC, and that short-run didn't fare well with retailers who simply didn't want a limited product line taking up a whole second set of pegs, so that led to low orders, transitioning into ROTS' single mainline.
    '06 saw 4 SKUs on pegs although only 3 were active, ROTS was wrapping up, TSC was going, and then TSC had 2 other basic lines - Ep 3 Greatest Hits and Ep 3 Heroes & Villains, both different SKUs from TSC - and this is where things get tricky. The idea behind those Ep 3 re-releases was to keep and capture casual consumers - kids who were still familiar with the movie but who weren't really into the depth and breadth of the brand. The idea is an extension of Hall of Fame but taken to the next level.
    '07 is where Hasbro made a total philosophical shift, putting 2 active SKUs out in roughly even amounts, creating the Saga Legends SKU where they took tooling that they felt was fairly modern but not currently active and made it available to appeal to a casual consumer, shifting the mainline to a more hardcore colector-only focus. From day 1, our Q&A asked them whether this was bound to create a schism that would undermine the foundation of both lines - Hasbro said no, but then sales showed otherwise and pricing started going up as the brand, some would argue, started cannibalizing its own sales.
    '08 saw 3 active SKUs that were meant to run in parallel but with new content support in the form of The Clone Wars tv show, so there was Legacy Collection, TCW, and Saga Legends SKUs all running at the same time as basics. TCW ran hot for a while, Saga Legends was like printing money for a while because it was existing quality molds that kids were looking to find but couldn't in the regular mainline, and the regular mainline was uneven due to distribution issues. That business model eventually led to the mainline driving away collectors in droves as they couldn't find new product and stores couldn't satisfactorily stock due to serious pegwarming problems. Eventually Hasbro tried to recapture the hardcore collectors via TVC but intentionally lowered volume and raised prices to match, yet even there they played an odd game of hedging the casual consumer interest in a hardcore line which led to a number of first-wave pegwarmers choking the line, and now here we are.

    In looking that whole thing over, something which hadn't occurred to me before shows up, Hasbro's splitting the brand into "collectors vs casual" consumers did create a schism, splitting the market interests out of a single SKU seems to have raised costs on the casual lines instead of saved the hardcore collector line until now there's a higher waterline and everybody's paying through the nose. Did Saga Legends and TVC bring the Hasbro SW brand to its budgetary knees by cannibalizing sales away to Saga Legends and Movie Heroes? When you factor in all the outside economic issues, I think there may be some truth there, but only Hasbro has the numbers to be sure.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "In Brooklyn, a castle, is where dwell I"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  9. #19
    Oh, no, it's malice. Hasbro would rather lose money than make collectors happy.
    Tommy, close your eyes.

  10. #20
    I have several questions for JT:

    1998 - also saw Collections 1, 2 and 3. Remember the color codes at the bottom of the cards? They did this for the Ep 1 glut as well.

    But Luke Bespin was Coll. 1, Ewoks were Coll. 2 with Biggs, Lak Sivrak, etc., and Coll 3 had Vader R.H., Piett, Ishi Tibb etc. (Freeze Frames).

    I might recall 1997 doing this as well.

    1999 certainly did with Qui-Gon (Coll 1), Panaka (Coll 2), and Ki-Adi (Coll 3).

    My Question was were they just different assortments? Not different Skus? It might have worked better if they were different Skus.


    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    In 2007 (TAC)

    On the controversy about Saga Legends and TAC figures (the latter being more collector based with some great figures!)

    JT said:

    "From day 1, our Q&A asked them whether this was bound to create a schism that would undermine the foundation of both lines - Hasbro said no, but then sales showed otherwise and pricing started going up as the brand, some would argue, started cannibalizing its own sales. "

    Could you explain please? I think Saga Legends allowed kids to get General Greivous whenever they felt the urge, (or similar staple characters) and folks like me go crazy over Elis Helrot and Myoom Onith, not to mention Biggs Academy and a lot of great McQuarrie options, Padme black leather temptation - I mean there were great collector figures and space wasn't wasted in the case assortments with General Grievous and Mace Windu who never look any different.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    OK, I've now read the concluding theory. I would say I could agree.

    I honestly never look at the Saga Lengends / Movie Heroes stuff so I don't even know if they are a lower pricepoint at retail. I guess they are? Unfortunately, if I didn't notice the numbers, they couldn't be more than a dollar or so off the VTC.

    In theory, if the price difference was even "worse," such that Legends were $5.99 and the VTC $8.99, this would make sales of VTC even worse?

    Following up on that, "including Darth Vader, Luke Tatooine, "same-old-same-old PT Jedi figures," all in the case with my greatly yearned for Sim Aloo (Imp Dignitary) and Nyrat Agira (Outlander Club hottie) would make the cases pass through better than having "my figures" in a separate line geared towards the hardcore folks like myself?"

    And I don't give a darn what they do to General Grievous or Mace Windu next - I will never buy more figures of these characters or Darth Vader and Tatooine Luke for that matter. So would just recarding the ideal molds for these characters not be better than wasting materials improving them (like better legs Han Solo) when the money could be spent producing Taym-den Garen or Sgt. Doallyn?
    Then put them in the same case and I can still ignore Darth Vader.

    Maybe all Hasbro has to do is rotate Vader in an out of case revisions under the same sku to keep him available to new fans?
    BAD Pts Need: R5-C7 lf leg (x2), , R4-P44 right leg BAD Pts Offered For Trade: PM me - I have lots of parts now including BG-J38!. New Kyle Katarn is also available.

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