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  1. #1

    As of 1983, Lucas never thought Yoda should be in a fight scene.

    I have greatly enjoyed reading the three Making of the original trilogy books by J. W. Rinzler. I just finished the Making of Return of the Jedi. The books are written from the point of view of the time the movies were made, not from a historical perspective, and so it cuts away a lot of the revisionism that has taken place over the years.

    On July 17, 1981, Lucas, Marquand, Kasdan, and Howard Karaznjian sat down for a five day story conference on Jedi and a transcript was made of the story conference.

    I never really liked Yoda fighting in Episodes II and III. I liked him more as a Force mystic, a wise guru, like Gandhi. Apparently, Lucas used to agree with me:

    Lucas: Also another misconception is that Yoda teaches Jedi, but he is like a guru; he doesnít go out and fight anybody.
    Kasdan: A Jedi Master is a Jedi isnít he?
    Lucas: Well, he is a teacher, not a real Jedi. Understand that?
    Kasdan: I understand what youíre saying, but I canít believe it; I am in shock.
    Lucas: Itís true, absolutely true, not that it makes any difference to the story.
    Kasdan: You mean he wouldnít be any good in a fight?
    Lucas: Not with Darth Vader he wouldnít.
    Kasdan: I accept it, but I donít like it.

  2. #2
    As of 2015, I still think Yoda should never have been in a fight scene. After the initial "Omigod, Yoda's fighting Dooku, that's so awesomesauce!!" wears off, it's a pretty lousy fight. Yoda has no technique and just bounces around like a rubber ball on crack.
    That's my jacket!

  3. #3
    I think that comment needs to be taken in the context of the times. How would they have shown Yoda fighting in the early 80's? That would've looked God freakin' awful. There is no way Lucas could have envisioned what would be available technology wise not all that many years later.

  4. #4
    Nope, not buying that JJB. Lucas was always looking ahead, to the future, to the next technology that could free him from such concerns.

    Yoda fits as that teacher who doesn't go into battle, that's not uncommon in fables and stories of old. Yoda may be a Jedi, but he should never have been a Jedi Knight, he should have been a Master at the religious side, a monk whose power of the Force is purely academic. Knights and Masters shouldn't have been different ranks, but different positions within the order, and one doesn't necessarily have to be one to become the other.

    Seems like Lucas' wisdom was overridden by Lucas' feelings of attachments towards "the fans" (this is the group he says he made the prequels for in the ANH commentary track).
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    Kylo Ren - came from Space Brooklyn, although he moved to Space Williamsburg before it was trendy.

    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  5. #5
    I always felt that Yoda's role in the Prequels should have been more of what we saw from Jocasta Nu. He would be a great Jedi teacher but someone who could never hold his own in a sword fight. Because swordfighting techniques only work when the combatants are roughly the same size. The taller and larger your opponent is, the more of a disadvantage you have when fighting him/her. Because when you are fighing with a sword, your skill, wisdom, heart, etc. are all secondary to the reach of your arm.

    In fact, I think it would have been cool if Yoda had been kind of looked down upon by the other Jedi during the Prequels and not considered to be a true Jedi (with maybe only Obi-Wan showing respect for Yoda's power). This would have further cemented their arrogance which led to their downfall and it would have made Luke's situation seem that much more desperate in ESB if he was left with no one else to learn from but this "reject" Jedi.

    When the Prequels established Yoda as a Jedi of nearly unlimited power, it made his decision to go into exile in ROTS and to stay out of the events of ANH feel completely out of place. I mean, he loses one lightsaber duel and he just hangs it up and abandons the Jedi Order? That makes him seem extremely selfish. I guess the Jedi motto is, "If at first you don't succeed, then give it all up and go into hiding until you can con some dumb kid into doing your fighting for you."
    Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split. - Robert E. Howard

  6. #6
    The impression I got from OT Yoda was that he was someone who had long ago moved beyond lightsaber battles. You absolutely did not want to get into a fight with him; he would utterly end you within seconds, but it would be through sheer mastery of the Force.
    That's my jacket!

  7. #7
    Senator Bel-Cam Jos's Avatar
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    I always got the idea that PT Yoda fought ONLY because he saw no other options. His sighs, physical exhaustion after, and lack of joy at the outcomes made it such a chore for him. JediTricks had a sig line a while back, something about "the ability to NOT use a lightsaber" being the true mark of a Master. Yoda sure COULD fight, and fight well; but he didn't want to resort to that as a first option.

    Maybe the Prequel Special Editions will digitally remove all the lightsabers and replace them with walkie-talkies.
    From Star Wars Episode VII: the Broadway Edition... FN and the Amazing Technically-Poe's Dream Jacket.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by bigbarada View Post
    I always felt that Yoda's role in the Prequels should have been more of what we saw from Jocasta Nu. He would be a great Jedi teacher but someone who could never hold his own in a sword fight. Because swordfighting techniques only work when the combatants are roughly the same size. The taller and larger your opponent is, the more of a disadvantage you have when fighting him/her. Because when you are fighing with a sword, your skill, wisdom, heart, etc. are all secondary to the reach of your arm.
    That's an interesting idea, but Jocasta Nu was a teacher? I thought she was just a librarian, she seemed fairly rigid in her thinking and behavior. Yoda wouldn't need to flip around, his arms even then would be pretty short, he's considerably shorter than R2 even; his mastery is in the Force itself. Does the following look like a great warrior to anybody?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    That's Yoda's original concept art, a wise sprite. That guy didn't go into battle with anything other than circling predatory birds. But he didn't have to.

    In fact, I think it would have been cool if Yoda had been kind of looked down upon by the other Jedi during the Prequels and not considered to be a true Jedi (with maybe only Obi-Wan showing respect for Yoda's power). This would have further cemented their arrogance which led to their downfall and it would have made Luke's situation seem that much more desperate in ESB if he was left with no one else to learn from but this "reject" Jedi.
    Why? The Jedi are already shown as corrupted by rigidity in the prequels, which I feel like is a massive error. Obi-Wan and Yoda shouldn't be the only pure of heart, the Jedi should be wiped out because they were blindsided by the machinations of the Sith having corrupted the public which the Jedi served. Obi-Wan shouldn't be wistful about the Jedi of old if they're all watered-down politicians, foolish and blind to their own source of power. They're an order of monks, they are supposed to have an enlightened discipline where the rest of the galaxy does not.

    When the Prequels established Yoda as a Jedi of nearly unlimited power, it made his decision to go into exile in ROTS and to stay out of the events of ANH feel completely out of place. I mean, he loses one lightsaber duel and he just hangs it up and abandons the Jedi Order? That makes him seem extremely selfish. I guess the Jedi motto is, "If at first you don't succeed, then give it all up and go into hiding until you can con some dumb kid into doing your fighting for you."
    This I can't argue with, and perhaps it would have been wiser to leave Yoda out of the prequels entirely, to have him cameo in TPM but not force him to be part of the Order 66 details and forcing him to position for ESB.

    Quote Originally Posted by El Chuxter View Post
    The impression I got from OT Yoda was that he was someone who had long ago moved beyond lightsaber battles. You absolutely did not want to get into a fight with him; he would utterly end you within seconds, but it would be through sheer mastery of the Force.
    "Only for defense, never for attack", Yoda should have been respected by those in the know as someone who wouldn't start a fight, but could end it by simply pulverizing the organs of his enemy via the Force.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bel-Cam Jos View Post
    I always got the idea that PT Yoda fought ONLY because he saw no other options. His sighs, physical exhaustion after, and lack of joy at the outcomes made it such a chore for him. JediTricks had a sig line a while back, something about "the ability to NOT use a lightsaber" being the true mark of a Master. Yoda sure COULD fight, and fight well; but he didn't want to resort to that as a first option.

    Maybe the Prequel Special Editions will digitally remove all the lightsabers and replace them with walkie-talkies.
    Looks at own sig, still sees line in question:
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

    That's of my own writing, but it feels like something Yoda and the Jedi would/should believe in. Han can use a lightsaber to cut open a Tauntaun, Obi-Wan uses a lightsaber to send a message to every other dangerous soul in the cantina not to be messed with.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    Kylo Ren - came from Space Brooklyn, although he moved to Space Williamsburg before it was trendy.

    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

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