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  1. #21
    Yoda never expressed any doubt whatsoever in the existence of them. He only expressed doubt that Anakin might be the "chosen one." Yoda's Midi count was even a part of public record.
    I never said Yoda doubted their existence, just their purpose for existence. The theory idea is just something I came up with to rationalize the midichlorian thing. It may be refuted in Ep2 and 3, but until then I'll stick to it.

    I can honestly say right now that I do not have enough information on the midichlorians to form an opinion on them. I don't want to judge anybody who decides to hate them or love them; but I prefer people don't judge me for tolerating them. If you hate them that much that's fine, it's your opinion; but that doesn't mean it's the right opinion. Let others share their views and respect those opinions, as you would expect us to respect yours. If your only argument is, "well I hate them so everyone else should," then you'll quickly find that you're arguing only with yourself. Because everyone else has stopped listening.
    "To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence… When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." - C.S. Lewis

  2. #22
    I've never disallowed anyone from sharing an opinion nor implied that other opinions were wrong. An opinion by definition is neither right nor wrong. Based upon the "evidence" at hand, I can see no point to Midichlorians except as a lame plot device but am actually eager to hear any logical explanation to the contrary. None has been put forth so far. People keep asking so I keep telling. I'm not the only one that holds these opinions.

    And I don't recall Yoda doubting their purpose for existence. There is no dialogue to support that. He claims to doubt Qui Gon's assertation that Anakin is the Chosen One. The reasons for that are up for debate (fear, honest belief, etc) but Midichlorians had nothing to do with it.

  3. #23
    Now, Now boys, let's not get sidetracked here, you both were doing well there for a while! ( I just love these type of deep rooted debates!!! )
    BB- I have to admit though you through me for a loop on the whole Yoda thing also!
    Quote:
    --
    suddenly this idea of the Force being channeled through these little microscopic beings comes along and soon many people consider it fact. So you can see how Yoda would be a litle skeptical.
    --
    I hate to say it but this sounds like your mixing up the order of the movies! TPM is the first movie, and is establishing the idea of Midichloriians! Qui-Gon may have his own opinion, but they are established as s-a-k noted with the (Jedi)public knowledge of Yoda's Midi-count!

    s-a-k: Why aren't the reason that I gave for the Midichlorians logical enough?

  4. #24
    BB- I have to admit though you through me for a loop on the whole Yoda thing also!
    "I don't know, I'm making this up as I go."
    "To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence… When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." - C.S. Lewis

  5. #25
    Ok, here come my personal theories on Midi-Chlorians and their creation of Anakin:

    My theory is that midi-chlorians do not create the Force nor a way to communicate with the Force, but instead are the RESULT of Force-ability within a user. They don't do ANYTHING like what Qui-Gon was talking about, instead they're just an indicator of something else: the more that show up in your bloodstream, the more you're touched by the Force. (This way, Qui-Gon was kinda like one of those folks from the middle ages who thought that bleedings could heal mental illnesses.) This bloodcount thing would work kind of like how a bloodtest can indicate how ill someone is based on a white bloodcell count; but if someone has a special condition like some sort of midi-chlorian inhibitor or simply less midi-chlorians in general, they would not show up in their bloodstream yet they could still have a strong connection to the Force. Come to think of it, this could explain away how Dark Jedi and Sith don't get found at a very young age by the Jedi order, though I'm not saying every Force user without a high midi-chlorian count MUST be evil, just that it's not likely they'd be trained in the light side.


    Now, as for the creation of Anakin, Qui-Gon Jinn, a Jedi knight who doesn't always follow the code, learns about the prophecy of the son of suns and gets wrapped up in the concept of the boy who will bring balance to the Force. Qui-Gon does a lot of research about the galaxy - planets, customs, politics, etc. - and eventually zeroes in on the Outer Rim, then goes to Tatooine where he finds an unknown slave lass (Shmi) and decides to get her knocked up. After he does, the Jedi, in disguise, clouds her mind as to what happened and beats a hasty retreat. Almost as soon as Qui-Gon returns to the Jedi order, he's given a new padawan learner, Obi-Wan Kenobi, and teaching this youngster the ways of the Force distracts Jinn from concentrating on his real son until he is sent to Naboo (Tatooine being in a straight line between Coruscant and this Naboo), where he sabotages the Queen's starship, let's his apprentice "find" Tatooine as a safe haven, and manipulates the situation to make sure he gets the ship to this planet and even parks the royal starship near the city where his slave woman was last.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "In Brooklyn, a castle, is where dwell I"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  6. #26
    JT- see comments/praise in EPI:TPM thread about same topic!
    Midi-theory: Cool!

    Anakin Theory: Uuuuuummm.....No!!!

  7. #27
    BB, that's one of the best replies I've seen in a long time!

    As for the continuing debate about the Midi's, I'm fine with all the explanations given for what they are and how they operate. That's all cool...only if this movie was operating in a vaccuum.

    The trouble is that it's not. It has the same saga title as three other films and countless extraneous materials produced since 1977. Therefore it probably should try a little bit to stay within the boundries. That's my beef with the Midi's. They just plain don't fit into the precedent set up before TPM. It's not my fault.

  8. #28
    Personally, I'd like it if Lucas debunks the whole midichlorian thing in the next film. But since I don't think it's likely, I hope the topic is just ignored. Never to be referred to again on the big screen.

    Alas, I'm sure Madame Jocasta Nu will have an opportunity to spit out Dooku's midichlorian count . . .

  9. #29
    Xir, I'll admit that the Anakin's conception one is going WAAAAAY out on a limb, but I just don't like the way Lucas is going with the Jesus immacculate conception thing. I think it all spawned from the Illustrated Screenplay, which has Shmi saying this line about Ani's conception: "There was no father, that I know of..." (emphasis mine, not the script's) In the original version, Lucas at least has the stones to leave it open to interpretation a little, but when he cut that little "that I know of" thing, it leaves Yoda's "The chosen one, the boy may be..." weakened.

    As for the "Qui-Gon got it backwards" theory, I'm glad you dig it. It just popped into my head one day and made so much sense, especially since Lucas does leave the issue open a bit in Ep 1 and, as Stillakid rightly points out, there's absolutely no mention of Midis in the classic trilogy.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "In Brooklyn, a castle, is where dwell I"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by stillakid

    No and the elders wouldn't be interested in having you around either.
    (I hope that quote deal worked.) Actually, we welcome anybody, we dont turn away people who are not members of our church.
    "Ha Ha Ha Hee Hee Hee, I'm a laughing gnome and you cant catch me!" said the laughing gnome....

    - David Bowie: The laughing gnome.

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