When someone first finds the figures, do they deserve armies of their favorites?

[jedi master sal]

I take great offense at this. You didn't even bother to quote my whole message thereby giving others the impression I'm something I'm not. Go and read for yourself, I said I was sharing some with a friend and also that if I see someone else who needs one, be it collector or kid I readily give them one of the multiples in hand. I do not go early and therfore can only get those "Lucky" finds every once in a great while and in this case it was 7:30 at night on a FRIDAY when many collectors and kids with parents are shopping to. If I got there first so be it. In my area there are scalpers aplenty and if I don't get some for me and my circle of friends then how do you expect me to get them. I do not shop on-line with the rare exception of the fan club and will never buy from E-bay. I don't want to wait, that is part of the fun of collecting and this is still a free country as far as I last knew. Now I'm not defending the scalper but if they have the time to get there before us oh well just dont buy from those high priced scum. that is the only way I can see the market drop out for scalpers. but not everyone is going to see it that way and there will always be those will buy from scalpers because they couldn't find a figure right then and there. I have been guilty of this myself a total of three times and have refused scalpers ever since. but to say my behavior is deplorable is quite unjust. If a scalper would have got there 2 minutes before me ALL of the figs (not just the clonetroopers) would have been gone. again look at my previous post. I only got 1 ea of ZAM, R3, Jango and left the multitude of other figs for other patrons. As for the Clone troopers I have no intention of selling these and I want to make a point as to why I bought all of them: EPI "clean" battle droids were and still are scarce in my area. these were the only variation I wanted to Army build so I waited for the price to come down instead of building right then. Not only could I not find any at lowers prices, I couldn't find any AT ALL. So, my experience requires me to by when I see or I may never get at all. I'm sure many of you have bought that figure/s that you really couldn't afford at the time but got anyway because you knew of the scarcity or rarity of the item. I will not allow this to happen to me again. I think either you (stillakid) may be jealous of the fact that I got so many and (maybe?) you haven't got any or your being anal about the whole thing. again this bears repeating, I shared 2 of my clonetroopers with a fellow collector and if another collector or kid was there at the time of my purchase and wanted one I would have gladly given one to them. As far as the expense of others I have been collecting for 25 years and never have I seen so much whining when it comes to this issue. I have shared many finds with friends over the years so just because I score this one time and metion it you make me out to be a monster. (again, i shared 2 of the CT's with a friend or did you forget that, oh that's right you deliberately did)
So without saying anything else that will get me censored, I will leave it at that.

Originally posted by stillakid



I believe that this is exactly the type of behavior that many of us deplore. Whether it's fair, ethical, or whatever is up for discussion amongst the philosophers, but the result is that many many collectors who wish to obtain just one of a figure may never be able to because of the selfish desires of a few. Army building is "successful" when you clean new figures off the pegs at the expense of others. That's not luck.

[Tycho]

OK, watch the personal attacks guys. If you want to hit at someone, I'm here with 20 Clone Troopers (half bought online though).

My next poll is going to look at what people HONESTLY bought, and what they actually WANT.

Next week we will devulge into how many of you out there have "Emperor's Arrival" scenes set up, and how you got that many Death Star Troopers, etc... besides what you plan on doing with Clone Troopers, Geonosian Warriors, etc.

My hobby (as in what I like to do with my Star Wars figures) is to recreate the movies with my toys in standing dioramas, or at least ones I have already set up or hope to set up in the near future. I also have something like 32 Gungan Warriors, and the next poll will let us all "count our collections out." We'll see who here is actually practicing what they preach.

It's no different if you started Troop Building with Clearance CommTech Stormtroopers guys - a lot of people wanted them - and armies of them. They were harder to find at their initial release at regular prices, so just because they were on Clearance doesn't mean its suddenly MORE ethical to army build then...

Meanwhile, I'm no angel. I admit my goal has been about 25 Clone Troopers in the Sneak Preview Category, and then wait for a "clean" and non-action posed figure to do a "Clones Arrival scene."

Meanwhile, some people didn't like the choices I offered to vote on in this subject.

I offered one option that says if you get there - buy all you can afford basically (if you are army building).

Another option stated that those buying that quantity are under suspicion of doing it for profit (scalping, hoarding for later resale, etc.)

Finally, the last option basically says that the collector with other priorities or commitments, such as being at school or work, or wanting to sleep, feels that distribution should be adequate (or customers should behave themselves) so that they can find figures in the store at their leisure.

If you army build, but "play fair" by NOT doing it all at once, I think you might like the third option. But if you feel there should have been a fourth option, please suggest it to me. I do aim to improve the polls, though I think you guys have really liked this series so far - you're discussing it an awful lot and that's great. We're learning about each other.

Unfortunately, army building takes its toll on what's on the racks. Most stores with figures from the preview wave left have only R3-T7 and Zam Wessel. At this point I'm willing to explain away Fett's disappearance to scalping, as well as the signature look's popularity with even those who do NOT collect Star Wars figures, but enjoy Star Wars and the occasional novelty. (kids would go for Fett first, too)

But the Clone Trooper is clearly an army builder. Being bought at a 3-1 ration to Zam or R3 from each case (an assumption, granted) stores are left over with "cases" full of Star Wars figures from an assortment that includes army builders, and they won't order more, because they have only 1 or 2 figures, but tons of the same one. Inventory shows they have 60 Star Wars figures in stock, and they do: 45 Zams and 15 R3-T7's.

Well, say I didn't have MY Clone Troopers: going to the stores NOW would be convenient, wouldn't it? (sarcastic)

Knowing how they will be sought after (the Troopers), other army builders and scalpers are out after them, too.

If I did not buy 10 CloneTroopers at that one time my Wal*Mart got them (my friend bought the 2 others), they might have just as likely landed in the hands of one of those HotWheels guys that scalp Star Wars (and were there that morning - in the isle over by their little cars).

However, since then, my demand satisfied for the most part (I still plan to buy 5 more) I am staying OUT of the stores. Other buddies have told me they are getting more shipments, so I can assume other a) collectors b) army builders, or c) scalpers are now getting them. I don't know. I'm sleeping until the next wave hits or I decide to buy my last 5...

But others in the SanDiego area are getting Clone Troopers..

Meanwhile, the Republic Gunship, a vehicle I may plan to buy 3 of, will release in the Fall. It holds 10 (TEN) Clone Troopers by itself. While I probably will put 5 in each of mine (barring different Clone Trooper figures take their "seats,"), what are those of you planning to buy and OPEN this ship going to do about Crewing it???

[Sith Vicious]

In regards to the poll choices, I think my main objection is in the use of the word "deserve" in the question and the third option. As I said in my first post, the first one there technically deserves the figures, but since I've been screwed over by army builders so many times, I certainly don't like the practice. On the other hand, I'm not going to rag on anyone who's into army building. I'm sure there are plenty of little kids who hate adult Star Wars collectors for denying them figures, so who am I to say I'm more ethical than an army builder.

[Deoxyribonucleic]

Originally posted by jedi master sal
I have been collecting for 25 years and never have I seen so much whining when it comes to this issue.

Gosh I sure remember when it used to be so easy to collect the good ol' vintage figs...I was always able to get what I wanted, when I wanted and how ever many I wanted. And most of the terms we use today in collecting didn't even exist back then. All I can do is just sit back, be thankful for the SW films and the SW memorabilia I do have and laugh. Of course I will always actively collect but I'm for sure going to be mellow about it when I'm at the stores. It's actually pretty fun for me because so many guys I meet while collecting and going to shows are surprised that a "girl" likes this stuff. Again I just laugh and enjoy all the wonderful things and people that come out of SW.

Good luck to all. Patience in this case truly is a virtue!

[dr_evazan22]

To Tycho, JM Sal and all the other army builders out there: God Bless You!

1. If your lucky enough to find the quantity of the fig's you want and you have the $ to spend, buy all you want. You stated in your respective posts that you were considerate to your bud's/fellow collectors who were in the store and shared.

2. Supply and Demand. While, in the short run, it may inconvenience other collectors that there are so many left over Zam's and R3's, Hasbro can better plan for future figure quantities and choices (of what fig's to produce). I'll put out there as examples the 4 variants of the basic Battle Droid, plus all the others that have come since, and also the news of the new army builder packs that I've heard about (2 new Endor reb Soldiers, the Stormie 4 packs, etc). If it weren't for the army builders we probably wouldn't have these.

There will be plenty of times in the future that any of us will go into a store and not find the figures we want. And someone will always end up buying the last one(except for the bin of E1 Maul's at my local TRU ).

[stillakid]

Who doesn't want an army of Stormtroopers, Clonetroopers, etc.? They were designed to appear in groups of two or more.

However, my opinion stands. I haven't passed judgement on the ethics of army building behavior with either new releases or those figures that are considered "older." Simply, cleaning new figures off the shelves for your own purposes keeps product out of the hands of others who haven't had the opportunity to acquire product for one reason or another. Guilt is your own business, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a selfish act.

No, I don't have any of the new figures, and no, I don't feel the slightest bit jealous about it. I began ordering figures online sometime last year after it became nearly impossible to find even the most basic figures in retail stores...not to mention army building types which were actually as close to impossible to find as you can get without calling it an absolute. I've casually looked here and there for the Preview figures, finding nothing, but never expecting anything either, after reading some of the posts here. Especially army builders, such as Clone Troopers. There doesn't seem to be much point in driving around town only to be frustrated that the pegs have been cleared of all the Clone Troopers because some "collector" needed to finish off his army before the movie even hit the theaters.

Someone else mentioned the kids and was totally correct. How many kids only get the chance to visit stores after school on weekdays, if they're lucky, and most likely on weekends with their Mom's? What do you suppose they'll find? Based on the above posts, I gather the best they can do is find 1 or 2 of the newest figures with nary a chance to obtain the rest. Collector's may just yet create the paradoxal situation of killing off their own hobby.

[Tycho]

Well, I'm guilty as charged with army building.

And I agree with Stillakid about the paradox of collectors ruining some of the enjoyment of their own hobby.

As long as the figures are selling to someone though, Hasbro will keep seeing it profitable to make them.

However, I do defend the army building collector who goes out to the stores just before closing, or like myself, before they open in the morning, because I've seen "my leavings" being combed over by scalpers - so the stuff won't be there for kids in the afternoon until the scalpers and army builders both are both saturated. (as I am - I could use maybe 5 more, but I'm not actively pursuing that).

For me and Clone Troopers, well - I'm out of the picture now. Some other army builder can go at it. But it would seem likely that in reality, there are more collectors of just one or two of each figure, than those raising infantry platoons.

As long as any of these types of collectors are not patronizing scalpers, there WILL be more for everyone else. I strongly recommend not encouraging the secondary market.

Now eventually Gungan Warriors started sitting on shelves. Eventually, the limited pose of the Clone Trooper might.

The other solution is to keep production of this figure high, and / or put out whole cases of him.

I do want kids to be able to get them, but what other solution gaurantees this will happen?

I also am not at the toy stores at all during the days or evenings, so I don't know for sure, but I think adult collectors make up Hasbro's market by over 50%. I'm not sure how we get good statistics on this. I'd love to look over Hasbro's market research...

[jedi master sal]

I put a great deal of effort to find new figs and if some others don't then that clearly explains why they don't have the figs they want. I think it comes down to dedication to your collecting habits. My biggest example is one most recent, and here it goes. On March 8th I happened to have a day off from work. I made a doctor's appointment previous for this day and after seeing the doctor (which was about 2:30pm) I started what I can only describe as a grand tour. I live in Pittsburgh and started my hunt in the south hills (which is the area in Pittsburgh I live) then took a drive down to Washington, PA from there to Uniontown, PA then Connelsville, a city that begins with a B that I can't remember at this time, Greensburg, Monroeville, North Hills, Cranberry and then finally home. I stopped at EVERY TRU, Wal*mart, K-Mart, KB, and Target along the way..... guess what I found NOTHING. So, I feel my dedication to my hobby and the fact that I can afford (at this time) to buy what I want should not be ATTACKED by words such as deplorable. Along the way I also bought toys for my fiancee who collects other lines, filled up with gas, stopped for food TWICE, bought from two roadside shops and finally made a payment on a layaway at my local Wal*Mart. I am clearly helping this economy when it needs a boost. So if others think my collecting habits are unfair SO BE IT. I served this great country for 5 years in the NAVY (during DESERT shield/storm (on land at a naval hospital just outside Jubail, Saudi Arabia. To think that I was serving for some people who quabble over the fact that I buy in mass when I see the opportunity, is wrong. To you I say NO, this is the AMERICAN way. LIFE LIBERTY and the PURSUIT of HAPPINESS!

[Tycho]

Well I also can agree with Jedi Master Sal and I too have made the effort of some full-blown "pilgrimage" to find figures only to turn up empty handed.

Going first thing in the moring seems to be the best way for me. I go when I'm alerted stuff is shipping, and stop when I've bought all the quantity I want. Then I wait for new stuff.

In that vein, this morning friends of mine in my collecting group got:

Shaak-Ti
Boba Fett
Tusken Raider Mother
Plo Koon (Arena Battle)
Battle Droid (Geonosis)
Captain Typho

and

THE TIE BOMBER!!!

The snowspeeder was also there, but our group doesn't want it.

Apparently there were 3 of each figure, and 2 of each vehicle (in addition to more Jedi Starfighters).

My group wiped them out and we share amongst each other, so I should get 1 of each of the figures tonight, but there were not enough TIE Bombers to go around. Next couple of days. I'd go at 11:30pm or 6:45am if I were you!

Early birds WILL get the worms!

But also note that the Episode 2 soundtrack is available on certain underground music trading sites as well! I've heard it and it is awesome! The best of any of the movies yet!

[stillakid]

The assumption seems to be that the next guy that walks in after you (generic "you") will be a scalper...so you (generic "you") are doing the rest of us a favor by cleaning off the shelves so he (the scalper) won't be able to take any of it.

The bonus is that you (generic "you") get everything you want immediately. You may also be interfering with scalpers intentions.

However, a better method to do that would be for everyone to refuse to buy from them in the first place. That would stop their incentive to horde the figures and leave plenty on the shelves for the real customers, assuming that "army builders" don't continue to take advantage of the situation and horde the figures themselves.