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  1. #31
    No, no. Vader was beaten before he made that choice. Luke's amateurish hacking away with his lightsaber should have been a cakewalk for any half trained Jedi to fend off. Essentially the problem with that sequence is that the filmmakers did not choreograph a decent fight sequence that could equal or outdo the one in TPM. That's one of the problems with shooting a series out of order. Vader appears quite inept when he shouldn't be. In theory Vader probably could wipe Maul off the face of the galaxy, but in practice, as filmed, the evidence is to the contrary.
    Ok heres my take... Vader was caught by surprise by Luke who, with temporary dark-side strength, overcame his father and brought him to the point of submission.
    Although inelegant, that final part of the duel was a very powerful scene. It was just pure strength and willing (on Luke's part).

    TPM was a little different (and visually superb)... but that was then and this is now - or whatever...............

    As much I enjoyed the 3 way duel in TPM... Nothing can take away the sheer anger and power of Vader's defeat.
    [FONT=garamond]'Eternity is very long... especially towards the end.' - Woody Allen[/FONT]

  2. #32
    I stand corrected about Vader being defeated by Luke,but you have to wonder if Vader's heart was in the fight.I mean this was his son he was fighting and he was having doubts about what he should do.I use the talk he and Luke had before Luke was taken to the Emperor.The conflict that Luke felt from his father.That had to have some effect on Vader's will to fight,not forgetting the raw power that Luke processes. Just something to think about.
    "I have a bad feeling about this".

    "Just when I remembered what it was,I forgot where I put it."

  3. #33
    I see two problems. One is that Vader just got finished declaring that he would forget about turning Luke and concentrate on Leia. This wouldn't necessarily automatically preclude him from killing Luke outright. Those "doubts" didn't seem present. There just wasn't any time given to show any doubt of the sort.

    The second is that ( and I knew that somebody would bring it up ) is the whole idea of Luke "growing strong with the Dark Side" and "his hate has made [him] powerful." Theoretically Luke might exhibit greater strength and become a better sword fighter (neither of which we see in that final thrashing about), but more importantly Luke becoming stronger doesn't suddenly make Vader an inept fighter.

    So to conclude A) Vader had no instant motivation to preserve Luke's life and B) Vader is not made instantly inept at fighting by Luke sudden anger.

    A+B=While Vader SHOULD have been an amazing swordsman, we never saw any evidence of it actually play out.

    C) the final duel in TPM was amazing. The skill level shown by both Obi Wan and Maul outdid anything we ever saw from Old Ben, Vader, or Luke.

    So A+B<C. Maul wins.

  4. #34
    I still stand by what I said on the old forums:
    Maul: defeated by Obi-Wan
    Vader: defeated Obi-Wan
    Point: Vader

    Maul: sucked up to Palpatine until his butt was sliced in two
    Vader: sucked up to Palpatine, but then killed Palpy's wrinkly butt
    Point: Vader

    Maul: fought a total of four Jedi in his career, killed by the fourth
    Vader: fought almost all the Jedi during his career, only left about four alive
    Point: Vader

    Vader: extremely tall Scottish chap who towers over Imperials
    Maul: short British guy who looks comical next to those extremely tall (6') Neimoidians
    Point: Vader

    Maul: little-known actor for voice over
    Vader: James Earl Jones for voice over
    Point: Vader

    Vader: scares people when he talks
    Maul: too scared to talk
    Point: Vader

    Vader: walks around bottomless chasms on a regular basis
    Maul: falls into the first bottomless chasm he encounters
    Point: Vader

    Maul: quickly dispatched by foe after defeating another foe
    Vader: dies as results of injuries suffered while fighting two of the strongest Force users around
    Point: Vader

    Maul: falls apart when he falls
    Vader: makes trampoline noise when he falls
    Point: Vader

    Maul: not a hit with girls
    Vader: scored with Natalie Portman
    Point: Vader


    I'd like to also point out that only Vader has the brains to brush his teeth.
    Tommy, close your eyes.

  5. #35
    Geesh, when you put it that way...


    Maul might've scored with Portman but never really had the opportunity. That's a lesson for all of us.

  6. #36

    Thumbs up

    El Chuxter, come on now. Most of the points you imported from the other thread aren't even serious, and the ones that are are easy to dispute.

    As I mentioned before, the only reason Vader killed Obi-Wan is because Bbi-Wan let him to help the rebels escape.

    And I have never read anywhere that Vader killed all the Jedi (or ANY of them other than Obi-Wan). He just helped track them down.

    Maul is the indisputable Sith Champion to date.
    My wife treats me like an ATM machine. She pushes my buttons until I give her money.

  7. #37
    Riiiight, Maul's so good that he stood there with activated lightsaber at his side, turned around, and watched as a Jedi padawan - whom had just flown completely OVER one side of him and down the other without any defense and was ripe for the cutting - sliced him in half. Yeah, that's a real talented fighter... Maul acts like Obi-Wan unplugged the Sith Lord's joystick while they were playing Mortal Kombat.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "We named the dog 'Chewbacca'!"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  8. #38
    See what I mean? Darth Maul is so powerful...Obi-Wan had to have help from the scriptwriters to kill him!
    My wife treats me like an ATM machine. She pushes my buttons until I give her money.

  9. #39
    Originally posted by Darth Cruel
    See what I mean? Darth Maul is so powerful...Obi-Wan had to have help from the scriptwriters to kill him!
    LOL!!! Ok, I'll give you that, but Qui-Gon did rightfully lay the smack down on Maul earlier in the battle and could have easily killed Maul at that scene but Lucas chose to not write it that way (Qui-Gon pimp-slaps Maul off the higher catwalk and then jumps down to join the stunned Sith who's just laying there, but Qui-Gon could have led his drop with his saber thrusting straight down and run the weakened, stunned Maul right through), so it goes both ways.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "We named the dog 'Chewbacca'!"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  10. #40
    um, how about uh VADER! he is so cool and ruthless...

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