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  1. #31
    Originally posted by stillakid
    Nice story! However, wimpy "starfleet" buses are no match for craft designed primarily to destroy. A full on volley from the Star Destroyer and a mass attack from the armada of TIE's would finish the battle off before the Galactic Associated Press had time to realize anything was going on.

    But then again, I'm making this up as I go...
    Dude, my story was just strung WAAAAY out because even the tiny Defiant would obliterate the bulky, massive Star Destroyer in 2 photon torpedo shots - returned fire would not affect the shields because they're based on something confirmed to be very old and weak in several different incarnations of Trek (my favorite is the TNG ep where the whole crew gets selective amnesia by an alien who convinces the crew to fight the alien's enemy forces, but Picard realizes that the laser-based weaponry poses no threat at all to the Enterprise, so it wouldn't make sense that this massive ship would be in that war).


    Lobito, the "important" Enterprise sizes are:
    Enterprise A - (note: there's a LOT of disagreement on this in fan circles and even official ones)
    Decks: 23
    Height: 71 meters
    Width: 141 meters
    Length: 305 meters

    Ent D -
    Decks: 42
    Height: 137 meters
    Width: 467 meters
    Length: 642 meters

    Ent E -
    Decks: 24
    Height: 88 meters
    Width: 250 meters
    Length: 685 meters

    Now the Millennium Falcon is also not exactly a "locked down" official size (in part thanks to the exterior being much smaller than the inside), so there's plenty to argue about there, but here's the general idea:
    Decks: 1
    Height: approx. 6 meters
    Width: approx. 18 meters
    Length: 27 meters

    I'm working on a set of images to show you the size differences, I'll add it when I'm done.


    Bel-Cam, I don't actually READ much of the EU, so I would say "um... Stackpole, 'cause I've seen his name on stuff more often".

    BTW, from your smileys, I think you might talk to your doctor about bipolar disorder.


    MJ, I won't even dignify that post of yours with a "harumph".
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "We named the dog 'Chewbacca'!"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  2. #32
    I decided to be very complete and made up photo examples of the scale difference between several Enterprises, the Falcon, and a Star Destroyer. You can see all this at the page on my site, and I triple-checked the math on each (I quadruple-checked the math on the Falcon, you'll see why when you go there ):

    http://www.geocities.com/jeditricks/trekwars

    BTW, this little task gave me a new appreciation for the metric system. If I had been converting feet or yards into what I needed, I wouldn't have been able to handle it.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "We named the dog 'Chewbacca'!"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  3. #33
    Fascinating

    Actually your depiction of two sizes for the Falcon just goes to show how "up for interpretation" everything is in Star Wars. Which in my mind makes it so cool. I like Star Trek for the precision of it all, knowing that the interiors and exteriors all match up and every square inch of space is accounted for. However with Star Wars, which has always been a space fantasy and by no means sci-fi, the indeterminate and sometimes conflicting nature of objects just adds to the appeal and charm of the entire saga.

    I seem to remember a comment made about Lucas' science being off. I don't think GL really cares about the science of it all, as the story is the most important element. I would compare it to Tolkein explaining the scientific principles behind on of Gandalf's magic spells. It is neither necessary nor welcome by the audience in order to enjoy the story.

    Reverting to sci-fi geek mode in 3...2....1....You've determined that the laser based weapons of SW cannot penetrate the Enterprise shields. What about the Death Star super laser? In any case if the Death Star destroyed a planet directly behind the Enterprise I'm sure the millions of tons of rock impacting the Enterprise hull would be quite enough to do it in.

  4. #34
    "Fantasy" is right! You ever notice Chewie working on the Falcon's exterior in Echo Base on Hoth? He's almost as big as the mandible he's working on!!!

    As for the Death Star's superlaser, if we are to assume that it's a pure light-based weapon which cuts into a solid planet's crust until it hits the core, then it somehow causes the entire substrata to explode (possibly by superheating the liquid magma core to flash-boiling or some other nonsense... hmm, why am I thinking of Dr Evil now and the liquid-hot "magma"? ). Anyway, if it's simply a giant cutting laser, then the Enterprise's deflector shields should be able to deflect it. However, if it's some sort of energy pulse-infused laser (boy, I'm reaaaaaally stretching here), then the shields may not be able to take that much power, ceptin! Of course, the Death Star isn't really going to be able to target and fire upon a moving starship anyway since it's targeting systems are made to target stationary planets.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "We named the dog 'Chewbacca'!"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  5. #35
    I hope that Picard would warp the heck out of there when the Death Star draws a bead on the Enterprise.But Hey,the Death Star was blown up.So Picard doesn't have to worry about that ...wait,what if the Enterprise travels back in time to before it was destoryed. Ok I just remembered,two different stories and two different universes.
    "I have a bad feeling about this".

    "Just when I remembered what it was,I forgot where I put it."

  6. #36
    You know that theory that if you're hit by lightning, but you're wearing rubber soled shoes, you'll be okay? Just in case you haven't heard, it's rubbish. That's a lot of power that isn't about to be stopped by a thin little non-conductive material.

    Those wimpy Starfleet shields aren't about to stop the sheer amount of laser fire that would come from a Destroyer and would never survive a direct blast from the Death Star. Shields would be weakened almost immediately, forcing the Trek ship to whip a U exposing its backside. Unless it managed to hit warp, a couple ion blasts then the rain of fire would finish it off within moments.

    Besides, that prime directive stuff would keep the Trekkie science bus from shooting at the Imperials anyhow.

  7. #37
    WARP?!? Picard wouldn't need to warp out of there, the Death Star's superlaser could be charging up, the Enterprise's main and secondary impulse propulsion and maneuvering thrusters could all be offline, and he could STILL move the ship out of the dang way simply by decompressing the shuttlebays. I love that visual, let me set the scene:


    The USS Enterprise D has been flung through space and time by a wormhole that was swallowing a quantum singularity, causing the a gravimetric time-space displacement whose measurements were off the charts. The Enterprise, finally dropping to sublight speeds, uses the last of the propulsion systems to grind to a hault to affect repairs on the massive damage taken by the powerful spacial event. Commander Riker reports that all propulsion systems are offline and will remain that way until the fused power conduits can be replaced, which will take several hours. Suddenly, Data reports a moon-sized space station is coming into range at lightspeed, and has spotted the Enterprise.

    Grand Moff Tarkin, on his way to meet Darth Vader who is chasing Senator Leia, is shocked to see a relatively large vessel of unknown design on the sensor screens, and demands that the Death Star investigate these newcomers. Officers inform Tarkin that the vessel is heavily-armed but currently has no propulsion. Not willing to risk letting a potential new enemy survive an encounter with the Empire's newest weapon, Tarkin orders the superlaser to destroy the ship.

    Picard, having been told about the superweapon targeting the Enterprise and readying for discharge, orders engineering to get some sort of propulsion back online in less than 5 minutes or they'll all perish, but is told that it's not likely that they'll get impulse engines back online in the time needed. Data informs the Captain that the giant weapon is designed to destroy planets, and once locked on to a target, cannot track movement that is inconsistant with a planetary orbital path.

    Tarkin, confident in the ultimate superiority of the Death Star, gives the "fire at will" command and watches in anticipation of the first confirmed kill by his technological terror. The one-minute mark is passed and Tarkin is almost drooling with poorly-hidden bloodlust.

    Picard asks for ideas as the last 30 seconds click away, and Data remembers a previous mission with a temporal rift and Riker's idea, so Data suggests the old "depressurize the shuttlebay" idea and Picard barks out, "make it so!" -- a transaction that takes up nearly all their remaining time, though Data's android fingers have already entered the commands into the system by the end of the Captain's first syllable. The Enterprise's artificial second-officer presses the final key with only 3 seconds to spare, and as the superlaser's pre-firing laser beams meet at their apex, all three of the Enterprise's aft-facing shuttlebays' doors open and release the pressurized atmospheres inside, propelling the Enterprise out of the way of the beam just as the superlaser's blast fires. Picard and crew sigh with relief just as Lt Cmdr Geordi LaForge miraculously figures out a way to redirect the warp flow, giving the green-panel announcement to the bridge. Picard orders the helm to "set maximum warp, any heading, and engage!"

    Tarkin's bloodlust turns to utter horror and disbelief as he sees the mighty blast of his magnificent weapon pass the enemy vessel by without so much as scorching its hull. The Grand Moff's jaw is agape as his eyes are transfixed on the viewscreen in an unblinking, livid stare while the green beam meant for utter annihilation of the starship instead disappears into the inky darkness of space as the interloping vessel streaks out of sight at a speed faster than hyperspace itself. A deathly silence fills the command deck as all eyes are on the staggered Grand Moff; no officer dares to be the one to garner focus and risk incurring the wrath of the second-most-influential being in the Imperial chain of command -- the command staff of the most powerful weapon in the galaxy collectively holds their breath in fear of a frail old man. After three minutes without change, Tarkin - who is even more pale than usual - turns to a small grouping of officers and quietly says, "We shall not speak of what occurred here ever again, am I understood?" His officers quickly nod their heads and agree, then begin chattering about how nothing of interest happened just now. Tarkin then gathers his composure and tells the crew to continue on course for their rendezvous with Lord Vader, steps off the command deck, and heads for his personal quarters where a fresh pair of Imperial underwear await him.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "We named the dog 'Chewbacca'!"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  8. #38
    Originally posted by stillakid
    You know that theory that if you're hit by lightning, but you're wearing rubber soled shoes, you'll be okay? Just in case you haven't heard, it's rubbish. That's a lot of power that isn't about to be stopped by a thin little non-conductive material.

    Those wimpy Starfleet shields aren't about to stop the sheer amount of laser fire that would come from a Destroyer and would never survive a direct blast from the Death Star. Shields would be weakened almost immediately, forcing the Trek ship to whip a U exposing its backside. Unless it managed to hit warp, a couple ion blasts then the rain of fire would finish it off within moments.

    Besides, that prime directive stuff would keep the Trekkie science bus from shooting at the Imperials anyhow.
    Hmm, where to begin? First off, there's no evidence that the superlaser is an energy-based weapon, although I did give that VERY THIN hypothesis a whirl in my post above where I said "However, if it's some sort of energy pulse-infused laser (boy, I'm reaaaaaally stretching here), then the shields may not be able to take that much power, ceptin!" and I pointed out that the Death Star would not be able to track the maneuverable starship well enough to adjust their weapon before it fires (or the starship simply flies behind the station again), and since it takes 24 hours to recharge, they're not likely to take a second shot.

    The only thing we actually know about the weapon on the Death Star is that it's a laser-based weapon, and laser-based weaponry is no threat to Starfleet shields, you cannot say "well it's extremely strong" because it's still just a light-based weapon.

    As for this nonsense about the prime directive, any vessel or base that puts the crew in harm's way is no longer under the protection of the prime directive. So if Han decides he wants to own the Enterprise and fires first, Kirk can decide to either disable or destroy the Falcon with the Enterprise's phasers or torpedoes at his discretion -- though protocol dictates that the weaker the threat posed by the enemy, the less need a commander should have to use deadly force.
    Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

    "We named the dog 'Chewbacca'!"
    The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

  9. #39
    Apples and oranges. When all is said and done these debates are really just the same elementary school "my dad can beat up your dad" arguments kids get into everyday.

    With that said, what if Vader seeing the Enterprise appear out of nowhere and sensing that these being are obviously devoid of midichlorians (sorry couldn't resist) thus the Force doesn't flow through them. So he decides to learn more about them and gives them a story about the Empire's attempts to establish peace continually thwarted by terrorists. He tells of one of their leaders, Luke Skywalker, who murdered his adopted family and fled the planet only to bring death and destruction on hundreds of loyal soldiers.

    Just then the Rebel attack arrives from Yavin's moon and the Enterprise agrees to assist in ridding the galaxy of these murderous terrorists. You fill in the rest.....

  10. #40
    The bit about the Death Star only being able to fire upon stationary objects returns me to my childhood watching Return of the Jedi. The capital ships I suppose had thrown anchor just waiting for their annihliation by the behemoth.

    In any case, I suppose this question belongs in its own thread, but I've been wondering why the Rebel fleet didn't just move around to the unfinished side of the Death Star? In fact, at the top of the battle, when all hell is breaking loose, they see the enemy ships coming in and proceed to head straight for them. Weird, huh?

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